Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#187262 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone sees a different truth, nothing that is observed is unaffected by the observer. This has been known for some time....
Wrong. When did you study quantum mechanics ? You said on WSJLM you didn't even graduate high school. Sounds like another lie of yours.

This is just another "thing you heard" but have no comprehension of. Just like your alleged religious beliefs.

How do you know when RR is full of shit ?
He posts on Topix.

ROFLMAO

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#187263 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I'm arguing with blacklagoon.
He wrote: "When anything in question is observable and testable by science, when it becomes the absolute BEST explanation at this present time, it becomes a FACT."
Don't you find any objections to that?
Doesn't anybody on this thread other than me find an objection to that?
Ya know RR - if I may - I do find an objection to some of the statement as you posted it.

Why?

Well, the supernatural world of ghosts and spirits has been observed and has been tested by many people using many scientific devices, yet many still think it is a false dimension, thus discern it to be not fact.

So yes - either the statement above that blacklagoon wrote is not accurate, or he doesn't agree with the statement he made in regards when it is applied to the spiritual dimension.

To each his own.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#187265 Nov 25, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya know RR - if I may - I do find an objection to some of the statement as you posted it.
Why?
Well, the supernatural world of ghosts and spirits has been observed and has been tested by many people using many scientific devices, yet many still think it is a false dimension, thus discern it to be not fact.
So yes - either the statement above that blacklagoon wrote is not accurate, or he doesn't agree with the statement he made in regards when it is applied to the spiritual dimension.
To each his own.
No such dimension's have ever been verified by science. The James Randy foundation has set aside one million dollars the anyone that can prove this supernatural world of ghosts and sprits. No one has claimed this prize since it was offered some 10-15 years ago, I wonder why!!

Can you name and describe the "scientific" devices used in this research? Can you "site" any reputable scientific journal that supports these findings?

There is NO evidence for the existence of a supernatural realm, it doesn't exist. Personal testimony, anecdotal accounts, and someones delusional experience doesn't count as evidence.

The statement I wrote is accurate, if anything is observable (the scientific definition not a personal account) and testable then it is a fact.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187266 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Well said.
Thanks.
Buck Crick wrote:
In my clearer moments I regard atheism as a superior position to that of any organized religion, particularly Christianity. When there are no atheists around, I fight with Christians. I need to fight. And I don't know why.
I don't like fighting any more, but I have been willing to do it here on Topix in the past. That seems to have changed over the last two years. I can't say why, but I think our life changes may be part of the answer. I was unhappy with the nation and with what medicine had become. Fighting was in the air. Retirement and the change of venue four years ago might have been a factor.

Maybe you'll grow tired of the fight as well sometime soon. Good luck.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#187267 Nov 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pretty hardnosed when it comes to the physical.
Awesome.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#187268 Nov 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
<quoted text>
I don't like fighting any more, but I have been willing to do it here on Topix in the past. That seems to have changed over the last two years. I can't say why, but I think our life changes may be part of the answer. I was unhappy with the nation and with what medicine had become. Fighting was in the air. Retirement and the change of venue four years ago might have been a factor.
Maybe you'll grow tired of the fight as well sometime soon. Good luck.
Might I ask what happened in medicine that bothered you?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#187269 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok.
Then prove emotions exist.
Outside of your mind.
Go.
Otherwise, I'm calling bullshit on you.
How would an emotion exist outside of your mind you loon. Do you think love beams exist?

Still trying this tack? You're bullheaded, I'll give you that.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#187270 Nov 25, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
We are all guaranteed death. Just ask our good medical Doctor. Death is as much a part of life as life itself. All living things die and that includes Atheist.
If you don’t believe a dam can fail or a bridge collapse then you are kidding yourself. Mechanical systems fail all the time. Now please understand that unbelief is unbelief. Throughout modern times we have seen catastrophic failures because of unbelief.
Remember the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster that occurred on January 28, 1986? This accident occurred because of unbelief on NASA’s part. But there was at least one Engineer with Morton Thiokol who raised concerns and tried to get the flight aborted.
His name was Roger Mark Boisjoly. After the accident he was shunned by the contractor because of his predictions came true. Why am I discussing these unbelief issues. Because unbelief is unbelief. You Sir, don’t believe there’s a God. NASA didn’t believe a cold weather launch would result in a catastrophic failure.
When unbelief meets belief often it is too late to do something. When you get all the proof you need. It just might be too late for you. As it was for the Challenger Astronauts, the people of Johnstown Pennsylvania.
The Titanic is another example of gross unbelief. It only carried enough life boats for half of the crew and passengers. Realistically the White Star Line didn’t believe the Titanic would ever sink. Unbelief tragically meets belief but it was too late for 1500 that died on 15 April 1912. That is 68% of those on board.
My good friend, your unbelief will meet belief but it will most likely be too late for you.[tipping hat]
Wow.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187271 Nov 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Harris is wrong. He has a Ph.D. in neuroscience, but he is not a practicing neuroscientist or neurologist or researcher. Eben Alexander is not only a neurosurgeon but taught and researched neurosurgery at Harvard Medical School for 15 years. He is in much better command of the subject matter than Sam Harris.
What Harris does happen to be is a crusader for atheism. I won't address Maher, except to say he is a liar and a buffoon.
Here is Dr. Alexander's partial response to Sam Harris, atheist crusader, after Harris said that he could not "find time" to debate Alexander on his experience:
Eben Alexander: "Of course, it was premature for him to speak out based on the Newsweek article — he needs to at least read the book if he wants to avoid making embarrassing statements that he later regrets. Isolated preservation of cortical regions might have explained some elements of my experience, but certainly not the overall odyssey of rich experiential tapestry. The severity of my meningitis and its refractoriness to therapy for a week should have eliminated all but the most rudimentary of conscious experiences: peripheral white blood cell [WBC] count over 27,000 per mm3, 31 percent bands with toxic granulations, CSF WBC count over 4,300 per mm3, CSF glucose down to 1.0 mg/dl (normally 60-80, may drop down to ~ 20 in severe meningitis), CSF protein 1,340 mg/dl, diffuse meningeal involvement and widespread blurring of the gray-white junction, diffuse edema, with associated brain abnormalities revealed on my enhanced CT scan, and neurological exams showing severe alterations in cortical function (from posturing to no response to noxious stimuli, florid papilledema, and dysfunction of extraocular motility [no doll's eyes, pupils fixed], indicative of brainstem damage). Going from symptom onset to coma within 3 hours is a very dire prognostic sign, conferring 90% mortality at the very beginning, which only worsened over the week. No physician who knows anything about meningitis will just “blow off” the fact that I was deathly ill in every sense of the word, and that my neocortex was absolutely hammered. Anyone who simply concludes that “since I did so well I could not have been that sick” is begging the question, and knows nothing whatsoever about severe bacterial meningitis."
I don't consider the fact that Harris is no longer a laboratory scientist or that he is a prominent atheist relevant. He is just as capable of making those judgements as if he were publishing papers today.

I don't find the laboratory parameters relevant either. They just tell us that Dr. Alexander had bacterial meningitis, and was very ill when those numbers were determined. They don't tell us what his brain was capable of before, during or after that time.

What we do know is that Dr. Alexander did not suffer much or any irreversible brain damage, which is relevant. What he calls brainstem damage was undoubtedly a transient loss or suppression of brainstem function caused by cerebrospinal hypoglycemia and/or bacterial neurotoxins, which process was undoubtedly affecting most or all of his brain to varying degrees throughout the illness.

And we still have no reason to believe that his neocortex was not functional when he experienced what sounds like typical hallucinations. He can't know how much of his brain was working at what level when he had those experiences.

What I see in his words is the will to believe. Nobody faults him for that, and many people that have had such experiences report them as profound.

Still, there is no more reason to believe that this man's mind left his brain or visited another world than there would be if he had taken hallucinogens and reported the same experience.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187272 Nov 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
What's the best way to reel in a sucker?
You get them to believe they are being played for one by someone else. Then they start trusting you.
This is what I was alluding to with, "And if you were planning to raise everybody's [insurance] rates by a sleight of hand, wouldn't this be the ideal cover for it - one party screaming "I told you so!" as if it weren't in on the ruse as well?"
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187273 Nov 26, 2013
Why?

Heterosexuals felch too.

No wonder religitards have the most unwanted pregnancies, they really don't know where to stick it!
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup.
And I made a comment about felching.
And it bothered you because you're a homophobe.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187274 Nov 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
That's the worst dodge I've seen yet. Trying to get around the beginning of the universe by saying it never began.
Don't the Christians say that about their god?

Which is the least likely thing to exist uncreated and to have always existed: An infinitely banging and crunching universe, an ininitely old multiverse from which our universe might have budded, or an infinitely old sentient being capable of creating such things?
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187275 Nov 26, 2013
The flaw in your argument is that you have to prove no other species in any universe got their proof in first.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice red herring.
Well, not really.
It was so obvious and attempt to change the subject to what you call myth.
The subject was about what existed prior to human knowledge of it. You claimed DNA & germs didn't exist until we discovered them.
That's one of THE most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Germs existed prior to human knowledge of them.
DNA existed prior to human knowledge of it.
Why is that difficult for you to understand?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187276 Nov 26, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Theres a difference, you abused the grace. Then he told this parable:‘A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, "For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?" "Sir," the man replied, "leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down."’" Luke 13:6-9
What do you think the message is there? How would that that apply to Buck or to me, both lapsed Christians, one an atheist?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187277 Nov 26, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Don't be stupid. Of course emotions can be measured and analyzed by science. Why don't you stop overreaching your knowledge? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!
You are back! Never mind the PM.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187279 Nov 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that so?
So when the evidence for a nucleus in a cell was absent, cells did not have nuclei.
Evidence of absence is evidence of any kind that suggests something is missing or that it does not exist.
Absence of such evidence means there is no evidence.
If there is no evidence, there is no evidence.
The statement is correct if it is changed to "Absence of proof is not proof of absence," but the absence of evidence can very well be evidence of absence if evidence would be expected. We don't expect people without microscopes to find evidence of cell nuclei.

Consider the following: You claimed to have called a coworker from your cell phone on your lunch break to tell the office that you would be returning to work late, but there was no record of that call in the telephone company records. The absence of expected evidence suggests that that call was never made.

Then, you said that you drove through a muddy field to get back to work, but that same day, with the ground still soft, no tire prints could be found in the field. Furthermore, the car you said you used, though dirty, had no mud on it. That absence of evidence is also evidence that you're probably fibbing.

Finally, thought you claimed that you returned to work, nobody remembers seeing you after lunch, and your time card wasn't punched. It's not proof that you weren't there, but it is evidence of your absence.

You're probably not getting paid for the afternoon.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187280 Nov 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you see the "BadLipReading" of it?
Oh, so funny.
http://youtu.be/5Krz-dyD-UQ
Agree. I laughed a lot.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#187281 Nov 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you mean by cosmic mystery. Can you elaborate?
.. why does the universe exist ??..

.. what is the meaning of life ??..

.. is there a God or is it all an illusion ??..

.. is this all there is ??..
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course we seek authority.
But more than that, we seek an authority figure, someone or something that is smarter and stronger than we are.
.. thanks for your honesty; your answer makes perfect sense ..

.. when an individual is unable to solve a problem,(s)he instinctively seeks out an authority figure for guidance, advice or assistance ..

.. what do you think of Noam Chomsky's quote below ??..

“I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom.”

.. to me, Chomsky is saying we must question the authority of the church for the good of humanity, my old fear -vs- freedom argument ..
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying that Satan did it. But Satan did it.
.. OH !! Thanks. So, Satan makes people post scripture that serves their individual needs ??..
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187282 Nov 26, 2013
If it didn't, would you be asking this question?
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. why does the universe exist ??..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#187283 Nov 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't add anything to your question except a guess, but my guess is that it's mostly a cultural thing tapping into the child-for-parent instinct. The priesthood attempts to maintain childlike perspectives that includes magical thinking and a submission to authority, which seem to be the main differences between the faithful and the unbelievers. Throw in the promises such as the answer of prayer, protection, absolution and immortality, and it's a potent package that needs little more help from the DNA that childhood instincts.
Here's Dawkins' take on religion from an evolutionary scientist's perspective - what competitive advantage personal or social religion might confer. He argues that the costs of religious instincts are so high in terms of death and suffering that if it is inherited and being selected for naturally, it must provide some benefit to offset that. It's a provocative read. Here it is in two parts:
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/125-wh...
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/124-wh...
.. meaty reads, thanks ..

.. in this thesis, Dawkins correctly points out, "Believe whatever your grown-ups tell you. Obey your parents, obey the tribal elders, especially when they adopt a solemn, minatory tone. Obey without question." ..

.. also, ".... a soldiers' slavish and unquestioning obedience to an order, however preposterous." WW II proves the accuracy of that statement ..

.. RR admits his thirst for an authority figure. That took courage and I commend him ..

.. yet here we are - you, me, an array of other posters - trying to find an answer to the unanswerable question: why do humans have a god need, a quest to solve cosmic mysteries ??..

.. both sides are vehement regarding their position and, based on the many adamant posts, it seems to tap into a primitive instinct. For example, when Bob decided to slap the theist label on me, he responded with blazing guns. Most posters, atheist and theist alike, seem to respond from an emotional core ..

.. what's that all about ??..

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