Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258038 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Thinking

Royston, UK

#184660 Nov 16, 2013
No I'm not, it's just you don't "read too good".

If your all powerful god exists, yes because the story goes that your god created all things. But that's not nearly good enough. If your all powerful god exists, it is an evil POS.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still avoiding.
Do you believe that God creates happiness?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184661 Nov 16, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
God didn't create Satan any more than He created Hitler or Dahmer.
Then they must have created themselves or formed spontaneously.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Satan chose his own path and God chose not to interfere.
Isn't that considered criminal behavior in American courts - to be aware of crimes about to happen, have the power to prevent them, and do nothing?

How much worse off would we be if only Satan existed? Not much from the sound of it.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
God has the power to prevent you from Hell, yes. He can do anything He wants. But God can't do anything that would violate His character.
You wouldn't want to change anything about a character like that, would you?

You have now described things your god can't, didn't and won't do.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
That’s why He can’t make us love Him
Not with that character. You have to be lovable if people are going to love you by choice. What part of this god that you describe is lovable?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
God can’t overlook our sins, and even though He would like to, He can’t save atheists who think they’re too smart to believe in Him.
What can your god do?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184663 Nov 16, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Is it more appropriate to kill a plant and eat it than kill an animal and eat it? Either way, you kill something for food...
I don't object to killing. I object to suffering. Life is different from mind. Bacteria are alive, and we deliberately kill them with antibiotics with no ethical misgivings because they do not have minds with which to suffer. The lawn is alive, and we mow it anyway without compunction.

But a zebra being chased down by a hungry lion is in sheer breathless terror until it is in agonizing pain. It's disheartening that you couldn't make that distinction yourself.

Thinking

Royston, UK

#184664 Nov 16, 2013
No way to design an ethical universe, is it?

If there is a designer, it's evil.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't object to killing. I object to suffering. Life is different from mind. Bacteria are alive, and we deliberately kill them with antibiotics with no ethical misgivings because they do not have minds with which to suffer. The lawn is alive, and we mow it anyway without compunction.
But a zebra being chased down by a hungry lion is in sheer breathless terror until it is in agonizing pain. It's disheartening that you couldn't make that distinction yourself.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184665 Nov 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
You post like a battered wife. "I know he gets angry. You don't understand him. He loves me really."
He certainly does. Here's more, and it sounds like what we just read from this poster:

GOD AS ABUSER: Similarities Between the Christian God and Abusive Spouses
http://atheism.about.com/od/whatisgod/p/Abuse...

"Part of the process of encouraging the victim to feel inadequate involves getting them to feel that they really do deserve the abuse ... God is described as being justified in punishing humanity.

"Abusers instill fear in their spouses; believers are instructed to fear God.

"Abusers are unpredictable and given to dramatic mood swings; God is depicted as alternating between love and violence.

"Abused spouses avoid topics which set off the abuser; believers avoid thinking about certain things to avoid angering God.

"Abusers make one feel like there is no way to escape a relationship; believers are told that there is no way to escape God’s wrath and eventual punishment.

"God is usually described as jealous and unable to handle it when people turn away.

"God is portrayed as using violence to force people to comply with certain rules and Hell is the ultimate threat of violence. God might even punish an entire nation for the transgressions of a few members.

"By getting [people] to feel worthless, helpless, and unable to do anything right, they will lack the self-confidence necessary to stand up to the abuser and resist the abuse. Believers are taught that they are depraved sinners, unable to do anything right and unable to have good, decent, or moral lives independent of God. Everything good that a believer achieves is due to God, not their own efforts.

"[V]ictims are told that it’s their fault when an abuser gets angry ... Humanity is also blamed for everything that goes wrong"

==========

Another take on this subject:

GOD: THE ABUSIVE BOYFRIEND
http://conversationalatheist.com/general-essa...

Ways the Christian God is like the most extreme version of an abusive (and possibly psychotic) boyfriend:

[1] Needs constant praise.
[2] Makes you feel guilty for just being human.
[3] Has severe jealousy issues.
[4] He lets painful experiences happen to you that he could easily prevent, just to test your devotion to Him.
[5] Claims credit for everything good in your life; claims nothing bad in your life comes from Him.
[6] Threatens you with eternal torture if you ever leave Him.
[7] He is constantly swearing that He loves you and you need Him.

Ways to tell if you are in danger of being taken advantage of in a relationship with this abusive God:

[8] You are highly defensive of Him from even the slightest criticism of His flaws.
[9] You talk to Him every night, and He never responds yet still expects unwavering devotion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184666 Nov 16, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Your self centered and self gratifying orientation ...
How is your orientation less self-centered and self-gratifying than mine or any other poster here? You post nothing but self-mastubatory pseudoscientific gibberish that you think makes you appear knowledgeable and authoritative.
Dave Nelson wrote:
you wish to impose on the massed mind and experience of the human species is indicative of a cancer, Doctor. You are a growth within the body human that only looks to what it desires, and not to the reality this species needs in order to advance. A cancer with delusions of being a superior creature.
You are a little man living a small life taking pot shots at the people he envies. You are free to do that, but not immune to a response.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184667 Nov 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a theory about the "atheism is a belief" syndrome.
They wish to try to **justify** belief as a basic idea.
So they are attempting to sweep non-believers into their believer's camp.
It just doesn't work-- atheists typically become atheists out of recognition that belief-without-facts is irrational.
Do you have an opinion as to why some of these people want to tell us that we are not atheists? I can't imagine how that serves them. Perhaps they think it's offensive or annoying and are trying to nettle unbelievers. Surely there would be better ways to do that, so perhaps it is something else.

Anybody? Any speculations about what sustains this very prevalent meme?
AwkwardForeignAl ex

Lebanon

#184668 Nov 16, 2013
I think Theism and Atheism are statistically equal, and are bot presumptions... It's really not that hard to understand. With all due respect to those who believe in either one, this summarizes what I think about both: http://www.bubblews.com/news/1588987

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#184669 Nov 16, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Tam! Good to you're still here. Yes, yes I did like all 5 books better.
:-)
When I read, I read fast.

I can't help it and I can't stop.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#184670 Nov 16, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Ted Cruz had the best line on Obamacare:
"It's like a Nigerian email scam".
Ted Cruz looks a little like my friend's 3 month old daughter. I think it's the eye lashes. They sound a lot alike too.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184671 Nov 16, 2013
Bongo wrote:
He never lied.
I disagree.
Bongo wrote:
Even said don't eat of this tree or else.
That's another character issue. Why tempt people that you already know haven't been made able to resist the temptation? And why threaten them when you already know they will fail?
Bongo wrote:
Maybe souls cant be extinguished.
Another poster just finished enumerating a rather lengthy list of things he said his god couldn't do. Shall we add this to it?
Bongo wrote:
Is hell built?
I don't know. Does it exist? If so, did it make itself?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184672 Nov 16, 2013
Bongo wrote:
Giving free will seems to be a problem. All reasonable questions.
Assuming that the claims of Christian theology are true, giving man free will was not a gift for him any more than giving a teenager the car keys and a case of beer would be. They both lead to destruction that is easily foreseeable.

The gift seems to have been for the god, who prefers to be worshiped by those who had a choice not to. It seems like vanity squared to me - the need to be worshiped compounded by need to be worshiped only by a certain type of person, and at the cost of subjecting so many souls to torture. If you can't uncreate souls, and you can't stand sin or forgive it, you have a moral obligation not to create any, just as a parent who knows that his children will be born into suffering from some predictable disease or other circumstance has a moral obligation not to have children.

I realize that you are not permitted to have these thoughts - they are considered sin and rebellion in your world. But I am permitted to have them, and in fact, consider the sin to be the unwillingness to face these issues, and the willingness to ignore your innate sense of decency instead.

I think that like so many other Christians that I have encountered on these threads, you are basically a decent person, and that your Christian training diminishes that according to how much you let it modify you. You and I seem to be pretty much alike, and we get along pretty well because of it. The ones that hate me seem to be the most different from me, which leads me to conclude that every area that a Christian varies from a typical non-Christian seems to make the Christian a worse person.
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#184673 Nov 16, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have an opinion as to why some of these people want to tell us that we are not atheists? I can't imagine how that serves them. Perhaps they think it's offensive or annoying and are trying to nettle unbelievers. Surely there would be better ways to do that, so perhaps it is something else.
Anybody? Any speculations about what sustains this very prevalent meme?

Prescriptive lexicography:

Prescriptive lexicography creates dictionaries on the basis of how people *should* write or speak - based on some idealized norms which may or may not be decreed by an institutional language authority such as the Académie Française.

The latter does appear to be the way of the Topix atheist . Hey Ians, God clearly says he will frustrate the wisdom of the wise. We are just helpless little humans in his big wholly owned and controlled universe.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184674 Nov 16, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
Pot calling Kettle Black ;-)
It was photographed:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pol_a...
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#184675 Nov 16, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Assuming that the claims of Christian theology are true, giving man free will was not a gift for him any more than giving a teenager the car keys and a case of beer would be. They both lead to destruction that is easily foreseeable.
The gift seems to have been for the god, who prefers to be worshiped by those who had a choice not to. It seems like vanity squared to me - the need to be worshiped compounded by need to be worshiped only by a certain type of person, and at the cost of subjecting so many souls to torture. If you can't uncreate souls, and you can't stand sin or forgive it, you have a moral obligation not to create any, just as a parent who knows that his children will be born into suffering from some predictable disease or other circumstance has a moral obligation not to have children.
I realize that you are not permitted to have these thoughts - they are considered sin and rebellion in your world. But I am permitted to have them, and in fact, consider the sin to be the unwillingness to face these issues, and the willingness to ignore your innate sense of decency instead.
I think that like so many other Christians that I have encountered on these threads, you are basically a decent person, and that your Christian training diminishes that according to how much you let it modify you. You and I seem to be pretty much alike, and we get along pretty well because of it. The ones that hate me seem to be the most different from me, which leads me to conclude that every area that a Christian varies from a typical non-Christian seems to make the Christian a worse person.
There is no perfection except God, and if his ways are not perfect , as you describe, who may challenge that? In my life im always the bad guy, But im the boss, its the golden rule , the man with the gold rules. The Church is replete with problems but so is everything involving humans. God is fair, he said one man , Adam, got us in this mess, one man Jesus can get us out.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#184676 Nov 16, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, Wavy.
Atheism is to believe something - it is the belief that no god exists.
Go play with yourself, you little turd.
LOL. I see you still haven't learned anything in all the time you have been on Topix. Still pushing this false definition of atheism.

Now I am not saying there are NO atheists that fit your description. What I will say is that of all the atheists I know, NONE of them fit it however. All the atheists I know hold to the position that there is no evidence for any god and therefore belief in any god is not warranted.

Now I realize the difference between this and what you think atheism is can be rather subtle, and you don't do subtle. But take my word on it, there is an important difference.

Ask yourself this...does it take faith for you to have a lack of belief in Vishnu?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#184677 Nov 16, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Why is secular government better than theocracy?

Riverside Redneck replied:
Who says it is?
Catcher1 wrote:
Now you're posting at your proper level.
Pretty funny.

There's a side of RR that I like. But there is also a deeply troubling aspect of him. I see the former as a combination of his intrinsic nature and the healthier aspects of his culture, and the latter as due to a grossly inferior set of beliefs and values that have been offered to him, and that he has embraced.

I doubt that they all come from church. Some of it is probably conservative American redneck culture. The two are quite compatible and mutually reinforcing.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#184678 Nov 16, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> There is no perfection except God, and if his ways are not perfect , as you describe, who may challenge that? In my life im always the bad guy, But im the boss, its the golden rule , the man with the gold rules. The Church is replete with problems but so is everything involving humans. God is fair, he said one man , Adam, got us in this mess, one man Jesus can get us out.
Any yet he was perfectly wrong.

Now I get it.

Epiphany !!!!!!

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#184679 Nov 16, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree.
<quoted text>
That's another character issue. Why tempt people that you already know haven't been made able to resist the temptation? And why threaten them when you already know they will fail?
<quoted text>
Another poster just finished enumerating a rather lengthy list of things he said his god couldn't do. Shall we add this to it?
<quoted text>
I don't know. Does it exist? If so, did it make itself?
Hello Ians. First time I've been here in quite a while.

I recently came across a book suggested in Jerry Coyne's blog titled "The Authoritarians". The author is a social psychologist in Canada. The book is primarily about the far right wing of the Republican party, but also explores their connection, differences and similarities with fundamentalists. It was a moderately interesting read. I am sure you will notice many of the personality types he talks about from your experience on Topix. I certainly did.

You can find the free PDF here...

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

If you skip the notes, which are mostly there to provide greater technical detail, it is a pretty quick read.

Take care. Hope all is well with you.

BTW...I see you are still having to put up with Buck. How sad.
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#184680 Nov 16, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. I see you still haven't learned anything in all the time you have been on Topix. Still pushing this false definition of atheism.
Now I am not saying there are NO atheists that fit your description. What I will say is that of all the atheists I know, NONE of them fit it however. All the atheists I know hold to the position that there is no evidence for any god and therefore belief in any god is not warranted.
Now I realize the difference between this and what you think atheism is can be rather subtle, and you don't do subtle. But take my word on it, there is an important difference.
Ask yourself this...does it take faith for you to have a lack of belief in Vishnu?
dogpile, if you don't assert there is no God youre not an atheist. A real atheist wouldn't spend mush time in forums like this, only those seeking proof , contradicting Gods mandate, only by faith.

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