Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255322 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183751 Nov 13, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
..I discovered I can channel telluric currents on the macro scale ..
So basically, you are telling us you are batshit crazy?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183752 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
The endowment, they reasoned, was the special-ness that entitles you to pursuit of the things you pursued.
You might not agree with their reasoning, but that was their reasoning, and it was "reason".
Once again, Christianity is antithetical to that. It teaches the opposite: that we are loathsome creatures born fit for hell save for the grace of its god.

Christianity also has little use for reason:

[1] He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.”- Isaiah 6:9

[2] Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed." - Isaiah 6:10

[3] For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." - 1 Corinthians 1:19 The bible actually teaches nothing. It is the church that teaches, and its has been famously anti-intellectual through the ages.

This is the position of the church in the Middle Ages:

[4] "Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." - St Augustine of Hippo

[5] "Ignorance is the mother of piety" - Pope Gregory I

And here is the father of Protestantism approximately a millennium later teaching the same thing:

[6] Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense & understanding. Whatever it sees must be put out of sight with nothing but the word of god remaining in view.- To be a christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason." - Martin Luther

The credit for the triumph of America goes not to Christianity, but to the vision of secular humanists, with emphasis on both the secularism and humanism. Christianity promotes the opposite.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183753 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Such as what? feel free to share.
Well, where to start.

At U. of Alabama, I boned a guy's girlfriend through the passenger window of his car while he was passed-out behind the wheel.

I hit Roscoe Davis with my fist and detached both his retinas with one lick.

In prison, I stuck a toothbrush up a guy's ass then made him swallow it.

I was being scouted by 2 NFL teams and was caught on camera smoking a cigarette in the huddle.

I tested positive for crack cocaine 3 times by 'Bama coaching staff.

That gives you a flavor for it.

I held back the bad stuff.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#183754 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall the particular conversation you reference, but if I falsely accused you, I am sorry.
Please excuse my abruptness.
Thanks for the apology. Much appreciated.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183755 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
You are an agnostic atheist towards all other gods and religions.
Nobody can be an "agnostic atheist".

Self-contradictory terms.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183756 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
Buck Crick, a good place to start is to ask yourself WHY you believe what you believe. To question yourself, as well as others. And to form beliefs only on the basis of real evidence.
Way ahead of you, StudBun.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#183757 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically, you are telling us you are batshit crazy?
What is so batshit crazy about that?

You think you live in a sterile world?

Those cellphone and radio emissions going unimpeded through your skull were tapped out of the earth's supply. As are the lights in your house.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183758 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I disagree - unless you are still calling reason, and compassion faith, in which case it will be difficult to understand one another. It was reason and compassion that led to the American Constitution, not religious faith.
<quoted text>
Those are just empty words. Such a belief is irrelevant to the philosophy of Americanism, by which I mean limited, divided and transparent government, the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation and secular government, guaranteed personal liberties, justice, democracy, and the like.
Christianity is antithetical to all of that. The biblical model of governance the biblical model is authoritarian and paternalistic: god over man, king over subject, master over slave, husband over wife, parent over child, and man over the beasts.
Wrong.

The philosophy of America's founding is a religious concept - that is the only basis they could find for affirming man's endowment of rights, and the inheritance of those rights in equal fashion.

The concept of 3 "separate but equal" branches of government comes straight from the Bible ("lawgiver, judge, and king").

Ideas such as "The consent of the governed," "Taxation without representation," and "All men are created equal" were first heard in the religious books and sermons of what was to be America, then appeared in America's documents 40 or 50 years later.

This is why liberals don't want American history taught in school any more.

"The Bible is the cornerstone of Liberty." -Thomas Jefferson


“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183759 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
I would not want to control how others use language.
Yet you do try to do just that.

So do I, but in a different way. I try to negate theists' manipulation of language - you know, the kind that try to limit how I use the word atheist, define secular ideologies as religions, conflate different meanings of "faith" in equivocation fallacies, conflate secular humanistic systems with atheistic authoritarian systems
Buck Crick wrote:
I think it helps for as many as possible to recognize there is an effort to deceive them afoot, and also to know the goals of the movement.
We agree there.
Buck Crick wrote:
I also do not believe your qualifier "probably". I think your many comments make clear you believe there is no god. That part is just my opinion.
Thanks for sharing it, but you are inaccurate. Maybe you're confusing my comments about the Christian god, which I do positively assert does not exist, with gods in general, which I have often said cannot be ruled out. Here's an example of Topix poster Skombolis confusing the two as you seem to be doing:

"He said in here there may be a god but it certainty isn't Jesus or Allah. Yet prior to this he conceded that very possibility ... He said he believes it is possible creator gods exist. So he conceded he has no way of ruling it out that an intelligent creator god exists and that could be the very same God we worship as Christians ... So why has he resorted back to stating with a certainly Jesus or God as known through Christianity can't possibly exist?"
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
Thinking

Royston, UK

#183760 Nov 13, 2013
That such apparent feelings may simply be the consequence of evolution does not mean one has to deny the self one little bit.
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. what does reasoning have to do with belief ??..
.. if you catch the scent of a Dianthus flower in full bloom, you may pause, feel elated, even free. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Would you say your experience was spiritual or reasonable ??..
.. sure, you can try to explain the phenomenon and intimate olfactory functioning but what accounts for your sense of happiness, bliss ??..
.. since there are exceptions, it seems the claim that believers cannot reason is a misnomer and limits the human condition, the unexplainable innate spirituality of all humans. To deny it is to deny self ..

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183761 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, Christianity is antithetical to that. It teaches the opposite: that we are loathsome creatures born fit for hell save for the grace of its god.
Christianity also has little use for reason:
[1] He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.”- Isaiah 6:9
[2] Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed." - Isaiah 6:10
[3] For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." - 1 Corinthians 1:19 The bible actually teaches nothing. It is the church that teaches, and its has been famously anti-intellectual through the ages.
This is the position of the church in the Middle Ages:
[4] "Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." - St Augustine of Hippo
[5] "Ignorance is the mother of piety" - Pope Gregory I
And here is the father of Protestantism approximately a millennium later teaching the same thing:
[6] Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense & understanding. Whatever it sees must be put out of sight with nothing but the word of god remaining in view.- To be a christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason." - Martin Luther
The credit for the triumph of America goes not to Christianity, but to the vision of secular humanists, with emphasis on both the secularism and humanism. Christianity promotes the opposite.
Whether it is wise to found a nation on religious concepts is another question.

The answer to the first question is, yes, that is the historical record - America was founded on religious concepts.

Your argument on this question is contrary to facts.
Thinking

Royston, UK

#183762 Nov 13, 2013
To this crowd you are someone who is unable to comprehend the full definition of the word "Atheist".
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
To this crowd, an agnostic is an atheist, or...
It's impossible to be an agnostic.
"Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God" (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor)
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183763 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
The philosophy of America's founding is a religious concept - that is the only basis they could find for affirming man's endowment of rights, and the inheritance of those rights in equal fashion.
etc,.
The founding fathers were remarkably secular for their time. In 1776 religion was a lot more popular than it is today.

The unique thing about the foundation of America was that between 9 and 13 of the signers of the constitution were freemasons. This includes the main figures such as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. America is a masonic nation with Washington DC as a masonic capital.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183764 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you do try to do just that.
So do I, but in a different way. I try to negate theists' manipulation of language - you know, the kind that try to limit how I use the word atheist, define secular ideologies as religions, conflate different meanings of "faith" in equivocation fallacies, conflate secular humanistic systems with atheistic authoritarian systems
<quoted text>
We agree there.
<quoted text>
Thanks for sharing it, but you are inaccurate. Maybe you're confusing my comments about the Christian god, which I do positively assert does not exist, with gods in general, which I have often said cannot be ruled out. Here's an example of Topix poster Skombolis confusing the two as you seem to be doing:
"He said in here there may be a god but it certainty isn't Jesus or Allah. Yet prior to this he conceded that very possibility ... He said he believes it is possible creator gods exist. So he conceded he has no way of ruling it out that an intelligent creator god exists and that could be the very same God we worship as Christians ... So why has he resorted back to stating with a certainly Jesus or God as known through Christianity can't possibly exist?"
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
I'm not confusing anything. I don't believe in the "Christian god", either, though I would characterize the disagreement differently.

I believe there is god, while hesitatingly using that term due to the baggage.

I don't believe "god" is anything near what Christians say it is.

Neither did Jesus.

"The kingdom is in you and around you."

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183765 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
To this crowd you are someone who is unable to comprehend the full definition of the word "Atheist".
<quoted text>
I seem to be the only one able to comprehend the definition - and willing to say what it is.

Others dilute the term for personal advantage.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#183766 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I seem to be the only one able to comprehend the definition - and willing to say what it is.
Others dilute the term for personal advantage.
The Topix atheist likes to make up their own definitions to whatever suits their immediate need.

'Sup, Buck? They let you out?

~sniggers

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#183767 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
That such apparent feelings may simply be the consequence of evolution does not mean one has to deny the self one little bit. <quoted text>
.. it seems you base your position completely on evolution and fail to consider the entire psychological architecture of humans including intuition ..

.. do you go with a 'gut feeling' when it supersedes logic ??..

.. self-transcendence, the feeling that you're part of something grander, is familiar to most humans, even atheists. Is that evolution or the desire to fuse with the unknown ??..

.. it is my contention that spirituality is an intricate part of who we are. To write it off as evolution is a grievous error and a denial of self, the wonderment of life ..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#183768 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>"The kingdom is in you and around you."
.. two silk scarves await you ..

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183769 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
The founding fathers were remarkably secular for their time. In 1776 religion was a lot more popular than it is today.
The unique thing about the foundation of America was that between 9 and 13 of the signers of the constitution were freemasons. This includes the main figures such as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. America is a masonic nation with Washington DC as a masonic capital.
No, I think they were Druids.

You are an idiot, Stud Bun.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183770 Nov 13, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The Topix atheist likes to make up their own definitions to whatever suits their immediate need.
'Sup, Buck? They let you out?
~sniggers
House arrest. Got a bracelet.

Beat the shit out of a guy at The Fifth Wheel. Probation people frown on that.

You look good in the photo, Red.

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