Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#183471
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob, all I hear from you is blah, blah, blah, blah.
Yes-- you cannot **bear** to read what I write-- for I would destroy your faith in a second.

That is how **weak** your faith is!

Proof-positive your faith is founded on **nothing**.

Sad.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

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#183472
Nov 11, 2013
 

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More bollocks from you. Why don't you ever quote the whole definitions?
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Your source has succumbed to revisionism. That is not the accepted academic meaning of the term.
Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).
Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia-1977).
Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God.(Oxford Companion to Philosophy-1995).
Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor-1996).
Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia-1991).
Atheism, commonly speaking, is the denial of God. Theism (from the Greek theos, God) is belief in or conceptualization of God, atheism is the rejection of such belief or conceptualization.In the ancient world atheism was rarely a clearly formulated position (Encyclopedia Americana-1990).
Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia-1993).
According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no god…(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy-1967).
Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion-1987).
Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).
Atheism denies the existence of deity (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).

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#183473
Nov 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I DO know, the pol was taken HERE in the U.S in 2012, and last year saw an increase of 15% over the year before. 20% of us and growing everyday.
China,northern Europe,Canada, Britain, Australia,have all seen drastic drops in organized religions some as much as 80%, but most still consider themselves believers.Perhaps globally, there is only about 5% true Atheists, in the sense we believe in no god or an afterlife.Sadly over 60% of Americans actually believe in the bible the way it is written, accept it as an actual historical reference.As do the jews and muslims,and these people have nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.And this is what scares me the most.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#183474
Nov 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Admit?
Eternal life could very easily be unbearable. Imagine a billion years have passed, and there are a billion billion more ahead. Even then, you wouldn't have put a dent in your sentence.
Imagine being so bored that it's painful, wanting out, and there being no way. If you allow yourself to do that, you will likely be filled with dread. If science were to reveal that that were the case, we'd need to invent a religion that promised the hope of eternal sleep.
Well... your typical Theist has all the imagination of your basic rock.

So they are unable to contemplate eternal existence of any sort, with any real accuracy.

This is because to these people? The phrase "40 days and 40 nights" would be the functional equivalent to "a ga-jillion days".

It appears that any numerical concept larger than, oh, say 10, is utterly beyond their mental abilities.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#183475
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
That burden of proof suitcase is worn out for crying out loud. In other words you can't prove there's no God. Just say so Doc.

From a pragmatic standpoint, the burden lies with whomever it is that wants to change minds. For whatever reason, the American population seems to be transforming into an irreligious one. Christians will be a minority by or before 2029 if the nation continues in its present trajectory. If you're indifferent about what others believe or are satisfied with the status quo, you have no burden.

People that are satisfied with the freedom to worship whatever they choose, even if they're the last one, have no burden. It's only the people that want to keep America Christian that have any burden - you know, the people that want to impose their faith onto the law books and textbooks, and to keep their god on the money and in the Pledge.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#183476
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t doubt that Atheist and Agnostics have increased in numbers. Just how much I really don’t know. Polls have been taken on a very small section of the population. Some places like Europe may have seen the greatest increases.
Indeed. Several European countries have reached an atheist population in excess of 60% or more.

Amazing.

What is even more amazing? These mostly-atheist countries have the lowest per-person crime rates, the highest average income, universal health care, among the highest literacy rates, most of their children go on to post-graduate degrees, etc, etc, etc.

In short?

These countries appear to be ... more civilized...

... this is **especially** true when comparing them with mostly **religious** countries, like Iraq, Iran and the USA.

Yes-- the USA is right up there with the pestholes of Iraq and Iran.

Why?

Due to the overwhelming number of religious people trying to force their ugly religious beliefs onto **everyone**-- with violence if need be.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#183477
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Thinking wrote:
More bollocks from you. Why don't you ever quote the whole definitions?
<quoted text>
Because he prefers to lie, instead?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#183478
Nov 11, 2013
 

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oneear69 wrote:
<quoted text>China,northern Europe,Canada, Britain, Australia,have all seen drastic drops in organized religions some as much as 80%, but most still consider themselves believers.Perhaps globally, there is only about 5% true Atheists, in the sense we believe in no god or an afterlife.Sadly over 60% of Americans actually believe in the bible the way it is written, accept it as an actual historical reference.As do the jews and muslims,and these people have nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.And this is what scares me the most.
Go look at the Scandinavian countries. Their populations are mostly atheist--some as high as 80% or so.

Then compare their literacy rates, their post-graduation rates, their unemployment rates, the level of individual health care, and the average per-person incomes.

Compare these to religious countries like Iran or the USA.

The religions countries do not look very good, compared to the mostly atheist ones.

Hmmmm..

Is it correlation?

I think what is really happening is this: these countries are more and better **educated** first and foremost.

And it **has** been shown that the better a person's education is? The more likely they are to become an atheist.

So it's not that these countries became **atheists** and then got really good at being civilized.

Rather the opposite: as these countries became more **civilized**, including better educations and more literacy?

It just naturally followed that they would put away childish (and barbaric) hobbies like **religion**.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#183479
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
You are under belief that we are to be sheep and mindless slaves to that power ...
I think you have me confused with a Christian. I am "under belief" that no such power exists.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You have your mind closed a lot more than I do as to what reality and existence is.
Would you please define what you mean by an open mind, and why you think that mine doesn't qualify?

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#183480
Nov 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
From a pragmatic standpoint, the burden lies with whomever it is that wants to change minds. For whatever reason, the American population seems to be transforming into an irreligious one. Christians will be a minority by or before 2029 if the nation continues in its present trajectory. If you're indifferent about what others believe or are satisfied with the status quo, you have no burden.
People that are satisfied with the freedom to worship whatever they choose, even if they're the last one, have no burden. It's only the people that want to keep America Christian that have any burden - you know, the people that want to impose their faith onto the law books and textbooks, and to keep their god on the money and in the Pledge.
Not true in the slightest.

You are advocating a position as the preferred course.

As an advocate, you assume a burden no different than that assumed by an alternative point of view, and it has nothing to do with the status quo.

Not to mention that your characterization of "status quo" is deformed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#183481
Nov 11, 2013
 

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spudgun wrote:
Hi IANS, re. the Christian code. Jesus instruction to tell his solar cult followers to hate their family, seems like a cult leader tactic. He wanted to separate the followers from their friends and family, so they can be surrounded by cult members only.
Agreed. Christianity meets several of the criteria for cults. From http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis....

• Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends.

• The group regards its belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

• Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

• Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, etc) serve to suppress doubts.

• The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel.

• The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

• The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

• The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

• The group is preoccupied with making money.

• Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

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#183482
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for proving me right.
You see, the reason nobody has come over to check out your claim is - nobody cares.
Try to think of an apples-to-apples analogy.
Or,... try to think, in other words. Moron.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in...

Just ran across that article, Buck. Interesting read.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#183483
Nov 11, 2013
 

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spudgun wrote:
The virtue of meekness is part of the religious mindset of "submission". So that followers can be easily led and deceived by a shepherd. By being submissive and ignorant the acolyte can become zombie like and un-thinking and easily led around, confused and fleeced for personal gain.
Agree again.

The entire Sermon on the Mount is slave ethics - a set of instructions from the ruling class to the peasant class on how to think and behave as they are being exploited and discriminated against. Let's look:

Blessed, supposedly, are the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peacemakers. I find nothing wise or comforting in admonitions to be poor of spirit or meek. Be robust of spirit and as assertive as the situation requires. Meekness is not a virtue. Humility, perhaps, but not meekness. That's just a poverty of spirit.

Who wants you to accept being dispirited, tolerating grief, not asserting yourself, honest to them, forgiving of them and pacifistic with them? Who benefits if, when I punch you, you don't retaliate, defend yourself or even walk away? The bosses, who don't want you tolerating injustice rather than seeking justice. Put that cheek right out there again, will ya? No, not quite like that - turn it a little more. Great. Thanks ...[Whack!]

Let's look at that cheek business a little closer. What kind of bad advice is this? The kind masters give slaves. Obviously, Christian morality is really all about being made docile and compliant - submissive. Doesn't sticking your face out there really incite further violence as I suggested? Even if you weren't going to use them, putting up your fists says, "don't hit me again." Jutting your cheek out there says the opposite.

People who care about you, like you father and mother, teach you how to defend yourself when necessary, to try to negotiate an understanding when possible, or walk away. Who else but the rich and powerful would teach people who have been hit in the cheek to show the other cheek and take a second blow?

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#183484
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Several European countries have reached an atheist population in excess of 60% or more.
Amazing.
What is even more amazing? These mostly-atheist countries have the lowest per-person crime rates, the highest average income, universal health care, among the highest literacy rates, most of their children go on to post-graduate degrees, etc, etc, etc.
In short?
These countries appear to be ... more civilized...
... this is **especially** true when comparing them with mostly **religious** countries, like Iraq, Iran and the USA.
Yes-- the USA is right up there with the pestholes of Iraq and Iran.
Why?
Due to the overwhelming number of religious people trying to force their ugly religious beliefs onto **everyone**-- with violence if need be.
More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- "More than 9 in 10 Americans still say "yes" when asked the basic question "Do you believe in God?"; this is down only slightly from the 1940s, when Gallup first asked this question."

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#183485
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Go look at the Scandinavian countries. Their populations are mostly atheist--some as high as 80% or so.
Then compare their literacy rates, their post-graduation rates, their unemployment rates, the level of individual health care, and the average per-person incomes.
Compare these to religious countries like Iran or the USA.
The religions countries do not look very good, compared to the mostly atheist ones.
Hmmmm..
Is it correlation?
I think what is really happening is this: these countries are more and better **educated** first and foremost.
And it **has** been shown that the better a person's education is? The more likely they are to become an atheist.
So it's not that these countries became **atheists** and then got really good at being civilized.
Rather the opposite: as these countries became more **civilized**, including better educations and more literacy?
It just naturally followed that they would put away childish (and barbaric) hobbies like **religion**.
I agree my friend,very much so. Education is the key, which is why some like the Taliban, orthodox jews, orthodox christians, ban any kind of relevant education. Shared knowledge and a relevant education is key to any successful society, indeed it is the only thing that will save humanity from itself.

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#183486
Nov 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have me confused with a Christian. I am "under belief" that no such power exists.
<quoted text>
Would you please define what you mean by an open mind, and why you think that mine doesn't qualify?
IANS, your under belief is nothing more than reverse thrusters turned on. You are not naturally balanced.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

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#183487
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true in the slightest.
You are advocating a position as the preferred course.
As an advocate, you assume a burden no different than that assumed by an alternative point of view, and it has nothing to do with the status quo.
Not to mention that your characterization of "status quo" is deformed.
I'm about fed up with this particular theist malformation of logic.

Let me ask you this: do you believe in fairies, ogres, and leprechauns?

If you say "no", you've made an affirmation - let's see you prove it.

That's a load of bollocks, and you know it.

Arse-backwards, and you know it.
Eagle 12

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#183488
Nov 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I DO know, the pol was taken HERE in the U.S in 2012, and last year saw an increase of 15% over the year before. 20% of us and growing everyday.
These polls only sample .02% of the US population. Accuracy is in question.
Eagle 12

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#183489
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course!
You lack the education to appreciate what I am trying to tell you.
It is quite sad, that you are so illiterate with regards to **all** things science.
Throw me a curve ball and put in some truth.
Eagle 12

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#183490
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Several European countries have reached an atheist population in excess of 60% or more.
Amazing.
What is even more amazing? These mostly-atheist countries have the lowest per-person crime rates, the highest average income, universal health care, among the highest literacy rates, most of their children go on to post-graduate degrees, etc, etc, etc.
In short?
These countries appear to be ... more civilized...
... this is **especially** true when comparing them with mostly **religious** countries, like Iraq, Iran and the USA.
Yes-- the USA is right up there with the pestholes of Iraq and Iran.
Why?
Due to the overwhelming number of religious people trying to force their ugly religious beliefs onto **everyone**-- with violence if need be.
I also believe there has been an exodus from faith in Europe. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about European Churches or Europe in general. It would be the last place in earth I would go and visit. If I did I would make the focal point of my trip visiting our war graves.

They can have their cold dark dingy castles and their godlessness. I must admit France was nice enough to give us lady liberty.

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