Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#183359 Nov 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>if I were you I'd be ashamed to admit I was Irish. Go have another drink mick!!!!
Oh, he's not Irish.

I am, and I know that the Irish educational system is much better than that.
Thinking

UK

#183360 Nov 10, 2013
Try that again in English.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who enters hell and had the chance to go to heaven. Has royal f*cked themselves over for eternity. Sorry, I wonít be sending any postcards from heaven.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183361 Nov 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Not only would eternal life be unpleasant, I see it as an actual hell. Every goal that you ever wanted to achieve would be realized, everything you ever desired would be realized, and then what? Another thousand years to look forward to, and then another million, and what will you now do with every goal you ever wanted fulfilled? No matter what you aspire to, no matter how many goals you could think of, all would be fulfilled and you'd be left with NOTHING. An endless string of nothing, millions of years with nothing, this is the true hell, and comically this is what Theists live and breath for, pitiful. As Woody Allen once said, "eternity is a really long time, especially toward the end."
Yes.. and to make it worse?

These idiots believe in a "utopian" heaven: where there cannot be any losers.

Thus? No games or sports of **any** sort-- no losers? No competition.

And in heaven? There can be allowed no shyt and no urine.

Thus? Absolutely **no** eating or drinking. None of that-- for if it was allowed? You'd have to allow urine and feces... not in **heaven**.

No sex in heaven, either...

... this one is obvious: all marriages are "until death"-- thus? No marriages in "heaven". And we all know that sex outside of marriage is strictly forbidden in "heaven" -- so no sex of any kind.

So.

The "parties" will be booooooring in the extreme: no sex, no drinking, no eating, no dancing (do I really need to explain that one?) no party games, none of any of that.

"heaven"?

It sounds like an endless forced existence of ...

...**hell**.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183362 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I can tell you this they don't use satellite tracking. They donít carry a magnetic ship compass.
There internal navigation system is superior than anything man has created. Which leads me to believe they were purposely designed that way. And please spare me the song and dance that evolution did it.
wrong... birds have an internal magnetic compass.

This has been proven on several occasions by scientists.

But they also use visual cues too.

And migration patterns are passed from one generation to the next.

Proof? Birds raised in captivity away from their wild cousins, do not know how to migrate properly-- they are very bad at it, or they just do not migrate at all.

So you are so full of it, your eyes are brown.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183363 Nov 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Not only would eternal life be unpleasant, I see it as an actual hell. Every goal that you ever wanted to achieve would be realized, everything you ever desired would be realized, and then what? Another thousand years to look forward to, and then another million, and what will you now do with every goal you ever wanted fulfilled? No matter what you aspire to, no matter how many goals you could think of, all would be fulfilled and you'd be left with NOTHING. An endless string of nothing, millions of years with nothing, this is the true hell, and comically this is what Theists live and breath for, pitiful. As Woody Allen once said, "eternity is a really long time, especially toward the end."


Reminds me of a short story I read once, most of the details I have forgotten. It seems a scientist was experimenting with making a time travel machine, and he was using various animals to experiment on in his machine. He would place a cat or a dog in the machine and turn it on and set a dial or something that would take them to some future date or past date, and he would leave the animal there for a very short few minutes and then turn the machine off, and the animal always would come out of the machine completely terrified, and would run off, likely very confused. He could never seem to understand what might have caused such a thing in such a short time, so he decided the only way to find out was to put himself into the machine, and do the traveling himself. I am guessing he must have had an assistant to operate the controls, so that he could come back. Anyway, he did find out why the animal was crazed, because inside the time machine the animal (or person) experienced an eternity of time, and so when they appeared to return in only a few minutes, they had experienced it as an eternity, and it completely blew their minds.

I cannot imagine an eternity that I would want to be in either. Even having the most wonderful experiences, that I could imagine, forever, I would think, would become very difficult to tolerate after billions or zillions of years. Certainly sitting at the foot, or even at the right hand of God, has no appeal to me at all. Even the 72 virgins that the Muslim terrorists expect when they blow themselves up seems like pretty much a disappointment. If they were 72 well experienced women, then it might be okay for a while, but what on earth would a person do in eternity with 72 virgins?

No offense intended to any Muslims here other than the offense the idea innately has anyway. I do have a Muslim sister-in-law. Personally I feel the people who brain-wash those people before they kill themselves should suffer the most horrible hell, but kept alive for a very long time, here on earth. Of course, one could say the same for those in the free world who convince their young to go off to some godforsaken country half way around the world to possibly come home in a box, or perhaps a baggy, or missing various body parts but still hanging on to life. All of that has an element of evil to it.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183364 Nov 10, 2013
Wonderful. This time I posted it successfully twice.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183365 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
If charities depended upon Atheist. There would be no charities.
Bullshyt.

Google Bill And Melinda Gates foundation-- atheists, and one of the largest charities in the world.

Warren Buffet is another atheist, who also does charity work.

Another atheist charity? Doctors without borders is **deliberately** secular, by intent (even though some members are theists--they are forbidden to proselytize their religion while representing DWB).

The fact is? There are quite a number of **secular** charities.

You are just to pig-headed to recognize this fact.

You'd rather wallow in your own filth (hate)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183366 Nov 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you and mac going to share your close call experiences? What you were thinking when they happened?
As as I wrote a little while ago, I wrote a long essay about that which seems has been lost by the system, and I did not think to copy it before hand as I sometimes do, but I did send a condensed version of some of it later. Fear and panic while still conscious, and facing likely death, and nothing during unconsciousness.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183367 Nov 10, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
silly rabbits, tricks are for kids, there is no life after death, no god, not even jc the man, get over it folks, and take responsibility for your actions, towards each other, and the planet we all live on. We may never have a social utopia between men, but from what I understand of the known Universe, there is no other planet that sustains the diversity of life as we know it.This is not some waiting area for a better place, this is all we have.


It is definitely all we have for those living at this moment, and though many will make predictions, no one alive today will experience a Rapture or End Times, though will experience the end of their life, assuming they are aware enough to even know that they are dying or about to die. For those poor suckers several billion years into the future, when the earth is consumed by the Sun burning itself out, I guess that will be End Times, if man has not by then found some way to escape our solar system entirely, and to find another younger one, with conditions which he could live in. To get there will take technology that is only science fiction today.

While I can feel a certain regret for these people billions of years from now, it is such a long time, that personally, I cannot see any way that I can help them, other than to try to keep this earth habitable as long as it still exists, which it seems some of us are trying very hard to make it uninhabitable. Likely with my participation in much of that.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#183368 Nov 10, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
As as I wrote a little while ago, I wrote a long essay about that which seems has been lost by the system, and I did not think to copy it before hand as I sometimes do, but I did send a condensed version of some of it later. Fear and panic while still conscious, and facing likely death, and nothing during unconsciousness.
But you weren't dead, you just shut it all of and out of your mind. Fight or flight. No different than a hallucination. But then you wake up. This also happens after surgeries. Your WAKING CONSCIOUSNESS is what goes to "sleep".

Your mind and memories keep ticking during such events. When they get the klaxons they kick in.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183369 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism 101:
ďWhen responding to believers, always try to make them look uneducated. At the same time let them assume you are in the upper echelon of knowledge.Ē
Christianity, Dealing with Atheist 101.
Atheist are narcissistic and will always reach into their bag of prepackaged responses. One of their favorites is,ďYou need to get an education.Ē Just remember the source from which it comes from, an egotist, self-absorbed, self centered, conceited, underachiever, anti-socialist, selfish and vain individual.
I didn't attend either of those courses. I just wing it based on my own experience, and knowledge of what I have learned over my lifetime.

Fact #1 which can't be disputed: No evidence has ever been found and vetted proving to man that a God exists, or that anything of a supernatural nature has ever occurred.

Fact #2 which also cannot be disputed. There has been ample and separate accounts of evidences being found which have been verified to be accurate that this planet never experienced a Flood which would have been several miles of water higher than the highest sea level today such that every possible piece of land was covered thus killing everything not in a relatively tiny ship, which could not have housed even a fraction of all of the species of living creatures, and enough food for all of them for one years, nor could a few people or even thousands of people collect all of those things and put them on a ship, because it would have been impossible to find the living creatures, a good number of which still have not been found and identified even today, and in those days the number of species of living creatures known to man would have been so small relative to the total known today, that they would have been insignificant compared to the actual total world population of living things.

When one delves into the story at all it very quickly seems funny at best, because it could not and did not happen. That some humans still hang onto the Flood story well over 100 years after a lot of religious people had accepted it as pure myth is a miracle in itself, but not a positive miracle, but rather a tragic one. In the western world this hanging on seems be centred in the southern USA, whether or not that is a myth or not, I do not know, but my experiences debating with some people from those parts of the country does seem to turn up an inordinate number of misinformed or uninformed people, moreso than the averages for the whole country would indicate.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#183370 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are sure there's no life after death that would mean you have died at some point and time and came back to life to tell us.
How long were you dead? A couple of days? What brought you back to life Frankenstein? Electricity?
As would your knowing that there is life after death. To know that aside from believing it would have to mean you died went to heaven and were there long enough to recognize it as such, and then returned here to earth to tell us about it. No human being has ever done that. I suspect you are also a human being; I can't verify you are.

Personally, I do not "know" there is no life after death, but I do know that the sources from which man draws that idea are not reliable, because they have been proved to not be reliable, and the most logical explanation for that, for me, is that they are fictional, and thus no man knows there is anything after death.

What we now know about what constitutes conscious life tends to indicate that all of that ends when the body no longer is alive, because we can demonstrate with the physical body the various physical signs which indicates that consciousness has a physical component which is entirely dependent on the ability of that part of the body to function.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183371 Nov 10, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't attend either of those courses. I just wing it based on my own experience, and knowledge of what I have learned over my lifetime.
Fact #1 which can't be disputed: No evidence has ever been found and vetted proving to man that a God exists, or that anything of a supernatural nature has ever occurred.
Fact #2 which also cannot be disputed. There has been ample and separate accounts of evidences being found which have been verified to be accurate that this planet never experienced a Flood which would have been several miles of water higher than the highest sea level today such that every possible piece of land was covered thus killing everything not in a relatively tiny ship, which could not have housed even a fraction of all of the species of living creatures, and enough food for all of them for one years, nor could a few people or even thousands of people collect all of those things and put them on a ship, because it would have been impossible to find the living creatures, a good number of which still have not been found and identified even today, and in those days the number of species of living creatures known to man would have been so small relative to the total known today, that they would have been insignificant compared to the actual total world population of living things.
When one delves into the story at all it very quickly seems funny at best, because it could not and did not happen. That some humans still hang onto the Flood story well over 100 years after a lot of religious people had accepted it as pure myth is a miracle in itself, but not a positive miracle, but rather a tragic one. In the western world this hanging on seems be centred in the southern USA, whether or not that is a myth or not, I do not know, but my experiences debating with some people from those parts of the country does seem to turn up an inordinate number of misinformed or uninformed people, moreso than the averages for the whole country would indicate.
Fact #1 is not a fact. It's an assumption and only a very small minority of people believe it. Because you claim it as a fact doesnít make it one. You nor any of your partners in crime have conclusive evidence thereís no All Mighty God.

Fact #2 is also not a fact because the earth has been underwater or at least most of it. We have sea fossils at the tops of mountains and also fossil evidence at the top of the South Rim on the Grand Canyon. Iím not saying this sea life is from a catastrophic flood. Iím just saying the earth has been under water before.

Another fact which you donít mention is floods happen all the time on the earth. Many times these floods are massive and encompass untold thousands of square miles. Did the whole earth as we know the earth is today flood in Noahís time? Iím sure the whole earth as they knew it flooded (regional).

Another fact is mankind has been engineering and building since the beginning. We have sent men to the moon and they lived on the moon for several days. Itís not impossible to believe men built the great pyramids without the use of modern cranes and lifting equipment. And it is not out of the realm of impossibility a escape craft was built by Noah and his construction company.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183372 Nov 10, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
It is definitely all we have for those living at this moment, and though many will make predictions, no one alive today will experience a Rapture or End Times, though will experience the end of their life, assuming they are aware enough to even know that they are dying or about to die. For those poor suckers several billion years into the future, when the earth is consumed by the Sun burning itself out, I guess that will be End Times, if man has not by then found some way to escape our solar system entirely, and to find another younger one, with conditions which he could live in. To get there will take technology that is only science fiction today.
While I can feel a certain regret for these people billions of years from now, it is such a long time, that personally, I cannot see any way that I can help them, other than to try to keep this earth habitable as long as it still exists, which it seems some of us are trying very hard to make it uninhabitable. Likely with my participation in much of that.
Yes, sadly I do not think it billions of yrs, but only a century or so away, when mankind has depleted all the necessary resources ,that make all life on this planet possible. we have already transformed the most vital resource on this planet, that being water. we have polluted every stream,lake and ocean, via nuclear fallout( we have detonated over 2000 nuclear and hydrogen bombs), plastic pollution so much so that the floating island of garbage in the pacific is not really floating garbage, but a break down of plastic molecules and other toxic pollutants such as pesticides from agriculture , that can be found through out our oceans.Star fish on the west coast are now dissolving, seals, dolphins, whales, by the droves are heading up the north coast of Canada, when they should be going south towards California and Chile.Some say this is perhaps global warming or from the Japanese nuclear plant.Either way, one would hope the priority of saving the only place we can call home, more important,then really anything else.This to me is why,religion is redundant,it is just to irrelevant to the world around us in the here and now.Only mankind is going to save himself from himself.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183373 Nov 10, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
wrong... birds have an internal magnetic compass.
This has been proven on several occasions by scientists.
But they also use visual cues too.
And migration patterns are passed from one generation to the next.
Proof? Birds raised in captivity away from their wild cousins, do not know how to migrate properly-- they are very bad at it, or they just do not migrate at all.
So you are so full of it, your eyes are brown.
Sorry, I don't have brown eyes. We can agree birds have some kind of advance biological navigation system. Scientist donít know for sure how this system works. There are theories which you are welcome to read about. We must remember your expertise is in home air and heating.

That doesnít qualify you as a PhD in ornithology
Science. But feel free to talk out the bottom of your *ss as you have done in the past.[smiling]

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183374 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact #1 is not a fact. It's an assumption and only a very small minority of people believe it. Because you claim it as a fact doesnít make it one. You nor any of your partners in crime have conclusive evidence thereís no All Mighty God.
Fact #2 is also not a fact because the earth has been underwater or at least most of it. We have sea fossils at the tops of mountains and also fossil evidence at the top of the South Rim on the Grand Canyon. Iím not saying this sea life is from a catastrophic flood. Iím just saying the earth has been under water before.
Another fact which you donít mention is floods happen all the time on the earth. Many times these floods are massive and encompass untold thousands of square miles. Did the whole earth as we know the earth is today flood in Noahís time? Iím sure the whole earth as they knew it flooded (regional).
Another fact is mankind has been engineering and building since the beginning. We have sent men to the moon and they lived on the moon for several days. Itís not impossible to believe men built the great pyramids without the use of modern cranes and lifting equipment. And it is not out of the realm of impossibility a escape craft was built by Noah and his construction company.
God is a man-made thing my friend, there is no doubt about it. Most religion is derived from Astronomy, no doubt about it.You only have to study the history of all mankind and their religions to understand this..

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#183375 Nov 10, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
As would your knowing that there is life after death. To know that aside from believing it would have to mean you died went to heaven and were there long enough to recognize it as such, and then returned here to earth to tell us about it. No human being has ever done that. I suspect you are also a human being; I can't verify you are.
Personally, I do not "know" there is no life after death, but I do know that the sources from which man draws that idea are not reliable, because they have been proved to not be reliable, and the most logical explanation for that, for me, is that they are fictional, and thus no man knows there is anything after death.
What we now know about what constitutes conscious life tends to indicate that all of that ends when the body no longer is alive, because we can demonstrate with the physical body the various physical signs which indicates that consciousness has a physical component which is entirely dependent on the ability of that part of the body to function.
"Conscious life" ends when you black out, get knocked out by drugs, go into a coma, or just conk out sleeping.

Then you wake up.

Your logic has some issues.

You are confusing the higher human physical thought processes with "conscious life".

As I have pointed out before, that is the first thing to go. You won't remember one single textbook or documentary. There is a lot more to go through if you wish to hang around. You have that mammalian and reptile brains to shut down, and they can be quite conscious. They are there when you conk out sleeping. They hear the alarm clock.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183376 Nov 10, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
As would your knowing that there is life after death. To know that aside from believing it would have to mean you died went to heaven and were there long enough to recognize it as such, and then returned here to earth to tell us about it. No human being has ever done that. I suspect you are also a human being; I can't verify you are.
Personally, I do not "know" there is no life after death, but I do know that the sources from which man draws that idea are not reliable, because they have been proved to not be reliable, and the most logical explanation for that, for me, is that they are fictional, and thus no man knows there is anything after death.
What we now know about what constitutes conscious life tends to indicate that all of that ends when the body no longer is alive, because we can demonstrate with the physical body the various physical signs which indicates that consciousness has a physical component which is entirely dependent on the ability of that part of the body to function.
"Personally, I do not "know" there is no life after death" Thank you for admitting the truth.

I have had and know of experiences from people with the spirit world. These experiences canít be discussed here with Atheist. It would be the equivalent of teaching calculus to a classroom of goats eating hay. Itís just no need to try. You can believe what ever you want. I know thereís a God and Satan. I have seen evidence for myself.

Donít ask me what evidence because itís something you have to experience yourself. Since you donít believe then itís a mute point.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#183377 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are sure there's no life after death that would mean you have died at some point and time and came back to life to tell us.
How long were you dead? A couple of days? What brought you back to life Frankenstein? Electricity?
Brain death is the irreversible end of brain activity, this includes the brain's ability to sustain life. This is due to total necrosis of the gray matter after loss of brain oxygenation. It should not be confused with a persistent vegetative state.

An NDE means NEAR Death Experience baby bird;0)
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183378 Nov 10, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
<quoted text>God is a man-made thing my friend, there is no doubt about it. Most religion is derived from Astronomy, no doubt about it.You only have to study the history of all mankind and their religions to understand this..
Oh I know how Atheist think. My dear sweet Dad was an Atheist most of his life. That is until the very end when he found God.

You may speak for yourself and the others that believe the same as you. As for me and my house. We not only believe, we know for ourselves God is real. Beyond all shadow of doubt.

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