Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258473 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183423 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
What people call other people is irrelevant.
Except, of course, when you're telling us that we're not atheists.
Buck Crick wrote:
Words have meaning.
Some even have more than one meaning.
Buck Crick wrote:
If one wants to call himself something, "atheist", for instance, he should know what it means.
That is discovered by observing how people use the word, not by dictatorial sources trying to control that usage.

Speaking of word meanings, are you aware of the difference between the words "descriptive" and "prescriptive" in the context of lexicography? If not, allow me: Descriptive lexicography refers to the creating dictionaries according to how people actually write and speak, whereas prescriptive lexicography refers to trying to limit people's usage to conform to that of some private agenda.
Buck Crick wrote:
Atheism is a belief. Those who assert otherwise are simply trying to relieve themselves of any burden of belief, and establish atheism as a neutral, rational position.
I am an atheist because having rejected all god claims, I live without theism. I'm also an aleprechaunist and an avampirist, but the issue doesn't come up as often given the relatively small number of leprechaunists and an vampirists compared to theists.

Of course the rejection of god claims is rational. There is no other rational position possible until compelling evidence for a god is produced. Without that, there is no rebuttal to atheism.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183424 Nov 11, 2013
Chaumette wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. That's what I've been saying, what faith is required to not believe?
None, of course.

The religious understand that faith is no longer assumed to be a virtue as it was in the past, when there was no sense of any need to defend the choice. In fact, unbelief needed defending.

Now that's turned around. Today's theist is on the defensive, and is anxious to convince skeptics that rational thought is no better than faith by trying to conflate reason with religious faith. You might have seen Dave Nelson's post referring to secular humanism as organized religion. Same thing.

Which one advertises that the competition is really no better, the leading brand, and Brand X? We should be flattered that the religious recognize that the relationship between themselves and us has changed.

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183425 Nov 11, 2013
feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole basis of christianity is escaping death; the pipe dream of "eternal life". Quite sad and bordering on pathetic.
Fear of extinction is a large part of it, but there are several other appealing promises made, including protection from harm, freedom from having to think, absolution for horrible past deeds, and more:

BENEFITS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN

[1] Perhaps you are terrified of dying. If so, consider Christianity. There's no need to face the likelihood that death is the end if it troubles you. Just choose to believe otherwise, and all of your fears of dying can be allayed

[2] Or perhaps you are afraid to walk down the street without a omniscient, omnipotent, magic protector watching over you 24/7. Consider Christianity. You can feel like you are being watched over.

[3] Or maybe you're lonely or feeling unloved, and just need to talk to somebody, but there's nobody there. Consider Christianity. You can mutter to the ceiling fan all day with the conviction that it's not just listening to you, but interested in what you have to say.

[4] Or maybe you're tired of being the universe's doormat, and you just need to feel special, as if the whole universe was made for you, knows who you are personally, and really, really, really cares. If so, consider that Christianity might be right for you.

[5] Christianity also offers one the ability to feel morally superior to unbelievers, who they are taught live meaningless, purpose-free lives with no moral foundation.

[6] Or maybe you are so full of hatred that you want those that have hurt you to be punished. As a Christian, you will have the pleasure of knowing that such people will be kept conscious after death and tossed into a lake of fire to suffer. Christianity fulfills any revenge or snuff urges you might have.

[7] Or maybe you hate that childhood ended, when everything was magical, and you believed that chants and curses had power, and that invisible creatures existed. Why give that up if you don't have to?

[8] Or maybe you miss Aunt Esther terribly and you just can't adjust to the reality of her being gone forever. If so, consider Christianity. Oh look up in the clouds! There she is!

[9] Or maybe you're tired of having to think or make tough choices. Christianity will tell you what to believe and what to do. God said it, you believe it, that settles it!

[10] Or maybe you suffer from crushing guilt or shame for the horrible things that you have done to others. No need. Lay it at the cross. Christianity offers forgiveness on demand. All you need do is mumble at that ceiling fan from item [3] and the debt is paid. You don't even need to apologize. How’s that for accountability?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183426 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are in full projection mode. That means you don't "see" a damned thing, just your own thoughts blurting out into the void. You aren't looking at the light of your projections bouncing back to you.
Fortunately, you've transcended that yourself, as this incredibly insightful post attests.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183427 Nov 11, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
None owes justification for their beliefs, unless they state their beliefs are facts.
You owe justification for your beliefs to yourself. Belief without reason is a betrayal of the self - what you might call a sin against the self. The relationship of faith to thought is the same as that of sloth to action and gluttony to self-control. They're all forms of self-neglect.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#183428 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Putting aside microbiological evolution. Because I believe it’s pretty obvious as it is very observable.
The belief of evolution of many animals and humans is like unto a wicker basket gondola. It takes a hell of a lot of hot air to keep it going. Which I might say rather pointedly you are supplying.[smiling]
Keep up the good work.
Why put it aside?

I have just commented on another thread to a guy who said (and I quote)–“Can you show me the whitnessed proof of evolution.”

My response was :-

Langkawi bent-toed gecko, witnessed on a generation by generation basis, the nice thing is that a generation is only about a year so very easy to witness and so being studied by science.

Yellow-bellied three-toed skink lizard is currently undergoing evolution alteration from egg laying to live birth and so being studied by science.

Italian Wall Lizards transferred to the island of Pod Mr&#269;aru in the early 1970s jave evolved in various ways, adapting to different diet, larger skull with heavier bite force. The development of cecal valves to assist the digestion of the new diet and so being studied by science.

The genetic evolution of Tibetans to survive in the reduced oxygen at higher altitudes is an adoption that is a recent as 3000 years and so being studied by science

Blue eyes in humans are a genetic abnormality resulting from the mutation of the gene alongside the OCA2 gene between 6 and 10,000 years ago that caused the OCA2 gene to produce less melanin. DNA analyses is currently being studied by science.

Pygmy three-toed sloth, their evolution from full sized sloth to approximately 1/3 the size has taken place in around 10,000 years and so being studied by science.

Cro-Magnon man, classified as human as you, you are their direct descendant yet their skeletal structure and cranium were considerably different than modern humans. Note that I study Cro-Magnon as a hobby so I am personal witness to the evolutional differences.

You want more?

However we know that as usual you will ignore this witnessed evidence in favour of your un-witness belief that your god did it by magic.

---

So - No hot air there just basic, real life fact but if you feel better being a condescending moron then feel free to look idiotic.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183429 Nov 11, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
You are admitting you consider eternal life unpleasant.
Admit?

Eternal life could very easily be unbearable. Imagine a billion years have passed, and there are a billion billion more ahead. Even then, you wouldn't have put a dent in your sentence.

Imagine being so bored that it's painful, wanting out, and there being no way. If you allow yourself to do that, you will likely be filled with dread. If science were to reveal that that were the case, we'd need to invent a religion that promised the hope of eternal sleep.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183430 Nov 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
Not only would eternal life be unpleasant, I see it as an actual hell. Every goal that you ever wanted to achieve would be realized, everything you ever desired would be realized, and then what? Another thousand years to look forward to, and then another million, and what will you now do with every goal you ever wanted fulfilled? No matter what you aspire to, no matter how many goals you could think of, all would be fulfilled and you'd be left with NOTHING. An endless string of nothing, millions of years with nothing, this is the true hell, and comically this is what Theists live and breath for, pitiful. As Woody Allen once said, "eternity is a really long time, especially toward the end."
Looks like you beat me to it.

I just commented on the "sin" of thoughtlessness and mindless belief. The hope for eternal like is exactly that. If I had been forced as a child to choose between mortality and endless consciousness, I would have chosen the latter. My guess is that you would have done so as well. Imagine maturing and coming to understand what you had done to yourself.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183431 Nov 11, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
That is why you picked the faith you did.
I think that what you are saying is that if faith is inescapable even for evidence based thinkers, you shouldn't be looked down upon for choosing to have faith in gods, right? I understand why you might want to make that argument given the changing attitude about religion.

Being looked down upon by the majority is difficult for many. If things continue to progress as they have, future generations of Christians might find it more comfortable to become closeted like gays and atheists had been all during the era of Christian cultural hegemony.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183432 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Atheism 101:
“When responding to believers, always try to make them look uneducated. At the same time let them assume you are in the upper echelon of knowledge.”
You can't make an educated person look uneducated if they are free to express themselves around other educated people.

What you can do, however, is to try to convince the people that even useless knowledge is education. I imagine that there are people that are experts in Pokemon mythology - who begat whom, who waged battle against whom, etc.- and those who have studied the books of the Hobbit that can recite them chapter and verse. Shall we consider them educated just because they learned something?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183433 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
If you are sure there's no life after death that would mean you have died at some point and time and came back to life to tell us.
It sounds like you would agree that people who talk with conviction about an afterlife populated by gods, demons and angels are just guessing.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183434 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I sure wish you would go with us Doctor. We're going to have a great time. We can ride our Harleys down main street in heaven.
Maybe I was mistaken. Or are you just guessing now?
LCNLin

United States

#183435 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then by your private definition of organized religion, it can be a good thing.
My definition of organized religion involves an actual religion, by which I mean a organized superstition, magical thinking, mythology and the like. That's the kind of thing that prepares people to be manipulated politically and economically, which I consider unhealthy for the individual being manipulated, and when in a sufficiently large fraction of thetotal, everybody else, too.
<quoted text>
Fortunately, that won't be necessary. It will be sufficient that their church become disempowered, and in so doing, limit its relevance to volunteers willing to subject themselves to it. The church can fade like a white dwarf star for centuries thereafter if that's how long it takes for its god to join Zeus and Quetzalcoatl.
<quoted text>
Really? I'm not aware of even a single moral precept of any value contributed by this so-called "pillar" Jesus. The only wisdom he offered was "borrowed" from earlier moralists, and the ideas that appear original to him were not good ones. Can you offer a counterexample to refute that?
atheist102 dodge,
attack religion with self centered post.

next expect a mention evolution as if this was somehow proof of atheism?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#183436 Nov 11, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
atheist102 dodge,
attack religion with self centered post.
next expect a mention evolution as if this was somehow proof of atheism?
Why are you even talking when you know that evolution disprove your desperate creationist cult?
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183437 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That burden of proof suitcase is worn out for crying out loud. In other words you can't prove there's no God. Just say so Doc.
Ahha, there is NO escaping it, wiggle as you may, the burden of proof is on you pal. It may be a worn out suitcase to you because you have NO hope of ever proving your demon god is real, but this is the way logic and reason operate. You can't suspend logic and as you can see, by trying to shift the burden of proof you are committing an "appeal to ignorance." That word *ignorance* seems to stick you like glue, ever notice that?

'When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed.'
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183438 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That burden of proof suitcase is worn out for crying out loud. In other words you can't prove there's no God. Just say so Doc.
"The evidence for werewolves is EXACTLY the same as for God."

YOU, also can't prove that I don't have an invisible fire breathing dragon living in my garage. Care to try?
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183439 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That burden of proof suitcase is worn out for crying out loud. In other words you can't prove there's no God. Just say so Doc.
I can certainly prove there is no such thing as the God YOU worship, using simple logic. Now I KNOW that logic is NOT your strong point so this will likely fly over your head. The qualities you assign God are said to be a kind and loving entity, who LOVES his creations, who frequently answers prayers, who loves his children SO much he sacrificed his very own son. I'll assume you know very well what love is, especially love of children, your grandchildren for example. You know what love feels like, how you would do anything for your children and grandchildren. If there were in grave danger you would do anything to save them, thats how love works. It is often said that when you truly love someone, you care more for them than for yourself. "GOD IS LOVE" do you agree? The word LOVE is attached to your God, he is the very meaning LOVE. So logic would dictate if the God you worship actually existed then "NO CHILD WOULD EVER DIE FROM CANCER" There is your logical proof.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183440 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your shadow boxing Doctor.
And you, once more, are avoiding the issue.

BTW we Atheists are growing very rapidly. A poll taken last year finds us at 20% up 15% from a year ago. WOW, up 15% in just a year, at this rate we'll be up to 50% in just a few years. Cool eh!!!
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183441 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Correction, "you're." I have to change it before the Nazi words smiths come in here and sh*t a brick.
Oh don't worry about that, I do it all the time. My computer is old and the keys sometimes don't work as they should, and I try and type fast and make loads of mistakes. sum da ill ghit a gnu computter.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183442 Nov 11, 2013
spudgun wrote:
Hi IANS, there are much more pressing issues in the world. But the mainstream media Fox News etc does not like to mention them. Its a tactic of diversion, diversion.
Yes, I agree. I was being a little sarcastic.

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