Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182556 Nov 3, 2013
Lt .William G Boykin, Pentagon's Undersecretary for intel
Superpatriotism, Michael Parenti, p59

The Pentagon's Undersecretary for intel Lt William G Boykin. In 2003, appearing in uniform before fundamentalist Christian groups, Boykin announced that
Bush "was not elected by a majority of the voters... he was appointed by God."

Explaining how he prevailed against a Muslim militia leader in the 1993 US invasion of Somalia, Boykin proclaimed, "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182557 Nov 3, 2013
Bill Moyers, Blind Faith, InThese Times magazine, February 2005, p23

Nearly half of the members of Congress are backed by the religious right. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the 108th Congress earned 80 to 100 percent approval ratings from the three most influential[Christian-right advocacy groups.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182558 Nov 3, 2013
Lost Founder
Harvey Kaye, American Prospect July 2005, p34

Reagan ... had constructed a new Republican alliance-a New Right-of corporate elites, Christian evangelicals, conservative and neoconservative intellectuals, and a host of right-wing interest groups in hopes of undoing the liberal politics and programs of the past 40 years, reversing the cultural changes and developments of the 1960s, and establishing a new national governing consensus.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182559 Nov 3, 2013
American Fascists
The Christian Right and the War on America
by Chris Hedges, p207
k
Corporations and their enraged and manipulated followers in the Christian Right, tens of millions of them, if left unchecked will propel us into despotism. The corporate state has now rigged our system, hollowed out our political process and steadily stripped citizens of constitutional rights, as well as federal and state protection and assistance. This may be the twilight of American democracy.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182560 Nov 3, 2013
a young Indonesian university English major - to John Perkins

The Secret History of the American Empire
by John Perkins, p181
k"
The West, especially its leader, the U.S., is determined to take control of all the world, to become the greatest empire in history. It has already gotten very close to succeeding. The Soviet Union currently stands in its way, but the Soviets will not endure. They have no religion, no faith, no substance behind their ideology. History demonstrates that faith-soul, a belief in higher powers-is essential. We Muslims have it. We have it more than anyone else in the world, even more than the Christians. So we wait. We grow strong.

... Stop being so greedy, and so selfish. Realize that there is more to the world than your big houses and fancy stores. People are starving and you worry about oil for your cars. Babies are dying of thirst and you search the fashion pages for the latest styles. Nations like ours are drowning in poverty, but your people don't even hear our cries for help. You shut your ears to the voices of those who try to tell you these things. You label them radicals or Communists. You must open your hearts to the poor and downtrodden, instead of driving them further into poverty and servitude. There's not much time left. If you don't change, you're doomed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182561 Nov 3, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text>our US Military mostly likely feeds them drugs -making them psychotic ... did you During WW2 the NAZI gOVT FEED THEIR sOLDIERS WITH PHYSICAL- ENHANCING DRUGS to keep soldier in top performing performance and alert and effect turn them into Pyscho-killing machines...
Yes, it's all so tawdry.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182562 Nov 3, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
That's great. A nuclear warhead exploding is also a "mindless process". A beam bouncing from earth and back from a a global positioning satellite is also a "mindless process". And so on. Everything is a "mindless process", depending on which part you look at. I'm glad we had a "physicist" to point that out for us. What would we have done?
Were you aware that the post was made to a Christian that had been arguing that life and intelligence couldn't arise from anything other than other life and intelligence, and hence his repeated reference to the mindless nature of the blind physical processes that led to life and mind?

Did you have a rebuttal to the post, or even a point?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182563 Nov 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You Topix atheists. say your prayers thanking whatever started religion for your being here. It civilized man, and gave you your education.
Nonsense.

Religion will be remembered as the phase of man's evolution that connected the time when he was first capable of wondering about the world and his place in it to the time when he answered those questions to his satisfaction.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Don't be ungrateful bastards.
I'm very grateful, but not to organized religion. I grateful to the people that are helping us to be free from it.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." –Diderot

Why do you suppose so many decent and brilliant people feel just like that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182564 Nov 3, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
If he said those words you quoted then he fell into religious bigotry as well as racial bigotry.
We have sufficient grounds to dislike and distrust organized religion. It is not bigotry to want to see a pernicious institution like the church disempowered.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#182565 Nov 3, 2013
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you quite read a book?
This is so typical of you and the rest of the fundies Dave. The old bait and switch technique.(Yes you are a fundie. You can't claim to be a Deist when you talk so much like a fundie. Don't say a word.., you're a fundie and you know it.)
The conversation you butted in on was concerning the story of Noah's Arc. Eagle was trying to qualify how the entire world could flood with water, like it says it did in the Bible, and then how all the water receded. For all practical purposes, the atmosphere is a closed system. The amount of water on Earth can increase by comet strikes, however, that would have taken a ridiculously large amount of comet strikes to flood the entire world. However, let's say that it happened, and several comets with a combined mass of about a quarter of the moon or so had hit the earth and caused it to flood. Where did all that water recede to? It's fun to discuss Noah's Arc because it's one of the most far fetched and ridiculous stories in your Bible, yet Christians will still try to defend it and make sense of it, because the only other option is to admit that the book which they base their entire belief system on is nothing but a bunch of fairy tales.
Now you claim to not be a fundie, but watch how you rear up now in defense of your Bible and spew out a bunch of convoluted EM theory that "proves" the world could have actually flooded and then how the water magically receded.
The amount of water can also increase by passing through water vapor floating space. I posted links about that.

I am not saying that such a thing happened as described EXACTLY in the Bible. You are the literalist with fundie tendencies. You are dealing with books that recorded ancient folklore passed down orally. You act like these were deliberate novels designed to enslave future generations. Perhaps this is due to some paranoid tendencies you have.

If you read the account of Exodus I posted a few days ago you should readily understand I could not be a fundie.

Here is the difference in how you and I look at things. You read something, take it literally, and the go running off at the mouth in support or opposition to it. Perhaps you do that just as an excuse to run off at the mouth. I pick through things looking for commonalities and events, and compare them to real world events and experiences. You read a section in the Bible and have a comic book understanding of it. I read it and relate it to how things are done today. Those characters in the Bible are no different than my neighbors today. Those accounts are no different than what you hear today. You assume news and science reports are not shaded by those witnessing and those editing to make reports. Simple minded grasp of "reality". You are topical. That is also called shallow. You are still stuck in absorption mode and have not learned to put things in perspective and do some serious learning, and increasing the depth of your understanding.

Now, you will ignore those words of truth and immediately go into a rant disguised, and poorly, as wittiness to defend your ego.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#182566 Nov 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Nonsense.
Religion will be remembered as the phase of man's evolution that connected the time when he was first capable of wondering about the world and his place in it to the time when he answered those questions to his satisfaction.
<quoted text>
I'm very grateful, but not to organized religion. I grateful to the people that are helping us to be free from it.
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." –Diderot
Why do you suppose so many decent and brilliant people feel just like that?
IANS, your secular humanism and faith it will win out IS an organized religion. Just another sect formed from the Christian ethos with a different perspective. Just another evolutionary branch of that Church.

It is not the first of its sort, which is why it is allowed. They all blend in to form something new. But you won't get rid of God and Jesus. They are the very pillars of even your morality.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#182567 Nov 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Were you aware that the post was made to a Christian that had been arguing that life and intelligence couldn't arise from anything other than other life and intelligence, and hence his repeated reference to the mindless nature of the blind physical processes that led to life and mind?
Did you have a rebuttal to the post, or even a point?
My rebuttal stands, without care for whom or what the post was attempting to address.

Polymath offered mangled logic - offering presence of "mindless" components to existence as proof of universal "mindlessness" of origins.

It's a common flaw of his - knowing a lot but not understanding what he knows.

It is reminiscent of his flawed assertion that a 10' stick can be sectioned into infinite segments of positve length, which is impossible, by definition.

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#182568 Nov 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
IANS, your secular humanism and faith it will win out IS an organized religion. Just another sect formed from the Christian ethos with a different perspective. Just another evolutionary branch of that Church.
It is not the first of its sort, which is why it is allowed. They all blend in to form something new. But you won't get rid of God and Jesus. They are the very pillars of even your morality.

Dave, IANS just wants to be the smartest guy in the room. He probably is, when you and I are absent.

Doctors practice for years as the smartest guy in the room. It's likely addictive.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182569 Nov 3, 2013
albtraum wrote:
A few months ago I interviewed a man whose church had verbally belittled him and his wife for refusing to give up short sleeves (?) What this has to do with the bible, I don't know....somehow they've decided that elbows are erm....sinful.
Isn't that a violation of his Second Amendment right to bare arms?
albtraum wrote:
IANS knows what part of the country I live in and he can vouch for some of the religious tomfoolery that goes on in this red state. I have longtime friends who espouse the same BS as thedave and theeagle do.....and promote and vote for the type of politicians who will pimp themselves out to all crazy sorts of ideas trying to force their isolationist and backwards moving notions into becoming the laws of the land.
I didn't realize that we were acquainted. I must know you by another name.

Incidentally, I'm leaving home for most of a week in about 20 minutes, and will have limited access to the Internet, so I may not see your reply or respond to it for several days.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#182570 Nov 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
We have sufficient grounds to dislike and distrust organized religion. It is not bigotry to want to see a pernicious institution like the church disempowered.
I will see your dislike of organized religion, and raise it to abhorrence.

I despise organized religion, and have more reason to do so than you.

There is a difference, though. I recognize that the present opposition and alternative to the influence of organized religion in our society IS FAR WORSE AND MORE DANGEROUS.

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#182571 Nov 3, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm game.
You know you *always* lose a fight with me.
It's your lot in life, Copper Scroll Boy.
It comforts you to remember things that way, huh?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#182572 Nov 3, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I will see your dislike of organized religion, and raise it to abhorrence.
I despise organized religion, and have more reason to do so than you.
There is a difference, though. I recognize that the present opposition and alternative to the influence of organized religion in our society IS FAR WORSE AND MORE DANGEROUS.
Exactly.

Opening the door to tyrants and lunatics to run things. The destruction of common sense. The self destruction of civilization.

It is evolutionary, it seems. Civilization has poisoned itself with its byproducts. The poison is paralyzing the collective mind.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#182574 Nov 3, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
Glenn Greenwald commenting on John Dean's book 'Conservatives Without Conscience'-
Conservatives Without Conscience
by John Dean
Penguin Books, 2006, p186
What Bush followers crave more than anything else is submission to a powerful authority as a means of alleviating their fears of ambiguity, certainty and complexity... the characteristic which defines the Bush movement, the glue which binds it together and enables and fuels all of the abuses, is the vicious, limitless methods used to attack and demonize the "Enemy," which encompasses anyone-foreign or domestic-threatening to their movement. What defines and motivates this movement are not any political ideas or strategic objectives, but instead, it is the bloodthirsty, ritualistic attacks on the Enemy du jour - the Terrorist, the Communist, the Illegal Immigrant, the Secularist, and most of all, the "Liberal.
You mean like using the IRS to harass conservatives? Using the DOJ to tap the phones of reporters and their parents? Using drones to blast civilians in sovereign countries? You mean like Obama's rendition program which turns POWs over to foreign entities for torturing them?

Did John Dean mention how he master-minded Watergate? Then ratted out his friends?

Did I mention you are a total fu**ing moron?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#182575 Nov 3, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
Conservatives Without Conscience
by John Dean
Penguin Books, 2006, p118
Eighteen months after winning his seat in Congress,[Newt Gingrich] who campaigned on keeping his family united asked for a divorce.[His wife] Jackie, who was in the hospital recovering from a second cancer operation, was confronted by her husband carrying a yellow legal pad filled with a list of his wishes regarding how the divorce should be handled. He wanted her to sign it, then and there, even though she was still groggy from surgery. When Gingrich abandoned his family he left them near destitute.
Did the burglars John Dean sent to the Watergate Hotel actually find the address book showing his girlfriend was part of a call-girl ring?

Never heard whether they found it.

Did you know John Dean testified that he never wrote nor read his own book?

If you didn't write a book you claimed to write, wouldn't you at least read it?

Are you aware that you are a moron?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#182576 Nov 3, 2013
Got it.

In a nutshell.

This atheism and secular humanism enslaves man to his circumstances. His position in life. Nothing higher to aspire to. No escape. No self worth.

Lots of nice words about equality and fraternity, but reality is you are stuck. Ego killing. You are just a commodity for other men to trade in.

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