Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182127 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Faith in medicine? Is that considered faith?
Early Doctors would bleed their patients. Patients had faith their Doctor was doing the right thing. Today they do both. They bleed patients and put blood right back into them.
Blood letting to drain evil humors and plasmapheresis for purposes of blood banking or to remove autoimmunoglobins are as different as religion and science.

Belief in anything for no valid reason including belief in magic is religious-type faith. It is an unjustified guess.

Belief commensurate with the quantity and quality of available evidence is partial knowledge.

It serves the religious agenda to conflate these two as you are doing now by pretending that because the same word can be used for both, that they are same thing.

It serves the secular agenda to disambiguate them as I am doing now, and emphasize the radical difference between them.

Who tries to do the one, and who tries to do the other? Consider advertising. We have the leading brand, and Brand X. Which one advertises that the competition is really no better? That's what you do when you argue that systems based on reason are no better than systems based on guessing.

And why have you taken that tack? Because of the status of each in modern society. Religion is widely understood as the lesser product, something you unwittingly reinforce every time you try to reduce science and reason to its equivalent.

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,'Atheism is just another kind of faith,' because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182128 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are asking me what’s up with the Gay Pride Parade statement?
I don’t participate in Gay Pride Parades but I also don’t support KKK marches & rallies or other groups that are outside my personal beliefs.
But I do recognize individuals have rights of freedom of speech and the right to peacefully assemble.
That doesn't mean I have to support what they do or what they believe.
What is wrong with a gay parade?

Can you point to anything that is not-bible to support your claims?

No?

Interesting: you would violate the constitution's prohibition to promote a particular religion, in order to soothe your bigotry...

I happen to know of quite a number of Christian groups that not only support gay rights, but would be fine with a gay parade...

... yet,**you** think you know **better** than they.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182129 Oct 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's especially remarkable given your standards for belief, which allow you to believe whatever you choose, or its opposite.
Indeed. Classic Salad Bar Christian-- pick and choose whatever he pleases from the Bible's Salad Bar of Belief™.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182130 Oct 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Eagle, you have the mind of a child. You are not able to process information given to you, especially when it involves science in any way, much like a child. However, unlike a child, you ignore or reject factual information, that is a sure sign of some serious mental disorder. You are unable to make logical correlations, as in your feeble attempt to make a correlation between Japanese tsunami debris float in the Pacific and a year long voyage of a 400 foot wooden boat loaded with tons of animals and supplies, just shear stupidity.
I am done trying to have any meaningful conversation with you. I can carry on a conversation with a child for about 20 seconds, with you, about half that. You'll see no more replies from me, Good luck with your severe delusions!!!
He demonstrates willful ignorance at it's finest.

;)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182131 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
A little chinese food is a break from the norm.
Good point.

Do you know what they call Chinese food in China?

Food.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182132 Oct 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,'Atheism is just another kind of faith,' because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte
A brilliant observation on the part of Ms Marcotte.

Indeed-- faith **is** a very silly thing to do.

**especially** in light of the ... internet... where information it literally a few clicks away...

....!!!

No need for faith at **all**...
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182133 Oct 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Eagle, I'm signing off for the night.
But tomorrow you and I have to talk about your GAY parade comment.
So start thinking about it.
I think what you are wanting to know more specifically what level of prejudice I have for Gays.

Gays have been around all the way back to Noah’s day. One of Noah’s sons was a homosexual or bisexual.

I have said many times before I don’t understand homosexuality. I don’t believe we as a society will ever see unbiased research on the matter. I personally believe some homosexuals are indeed born that way. But this percentage is small in my view.

I think the majority of gays have been shaped that way by environmental factors. I had a friend for example named Robert. Robert’s Dad divorced his Mother when Robert was a small child. He was raised by his sweet Mom and three sisters.

Robert was greatly influenced by his environment and turned Gay. He was one of the first people to die of Aids in Houston back in the 80’s.

Gays have the right to live and work in our society. They have the right not to be harassed, beaten, and killed. We all as have those same rights.

I don’t participate Gay Pride Parades and I don’t support Gay marriage. I think ones sexual preference is a personal choice and not anyone’s business. I don’t want it made my business. And I prefer not to be told. I liked the military’s don’t ask don’t tell policy. I just believe it should be kept personal. Not in the closet but keep it in the bedroom with the doors locked and the shades pulled.

Do I hate Gays?

Not at all although I will be accused of hate just because I disagree with Gay marriage. I think the world has enough hate already. No one should be hated because of their sexual orientation.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182134 Oct 30, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
And none of that can be found in your bible...!
Amazing!
The authors of your bible were basically **ignorant** of the above.
How **about** that-- they [bible-writers] were dumber than a modern 5 year old...!
common knowledge and has been since the beginning of time
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182135 Oct 30, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
What is wrong with a gay parade?
Can you point to anything that is not-bible to support your claims?
No?
Interesting: you would violate the constitution's prohibition to promote a particular religion, in order to soothe your bigotry...
I happen to know of quite a number of Christian groups that not only support gay rights, but would be fine with a gay parade...
... yet,**you** think you know **better** than they.
I believe in the right for citizens to peaceful assembly and the right to free speech. That doesn’t mean I’m throwing in all my support in every cause or belief because a group has a parade.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182136 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think what you are wanting to know more specifically what level of prejudice I have for Gays.
Gays have been around all the way back to Noah’s day. One of Noah’s sons was a homosexual or bisexual.
I have said many times before I don’t understand homosexuality. I don’t believe we as a society will ever see unbiased research on the matter. I personally believe some homosexuals are indeed born that way. But this percentage is small in my view.
I think the majority of gays have been shaped that way by environmental factors. I had a friend for example named Robert. Robert’s Dad divorced his Mother when Robert was a small child. He was raised by his sweet Mom and three sisters.
Robert was greatly influenced by his environment and turned Gay. He was one of the first people to die of Aids in Houston back in the 80’s.
Gays have the right to live and work in our society. They have the right not to be harassed, beaten, and killed. We all as have those same rights.
I don’t participate Gay Pride Parades and I don’t support Gay marriage. I think ones sexual preference is a personal choice and not anyone’s business. I don’t want it made my business. And I prefer not to be told. I liked the military’s don’t ask don’t tell policy. I just believe it should be kept personal. Not in the closet but keep it in the bedroom with the doors locked and the shades pulled.
Do I hate Gays?
Not at all although I will be accused of hate just because I disagree with Gay marriage. I think the world has enough hate already. No one should be hated because of their sexual orientation.
When, exactly, did **you** choose to be straight, then?

Hmmm?

As for keeping it closeted? Well.. I do not particularly enjoy watching old people display public affection... it's kinda gross.

But I would be the first to support their right to be as public as anyone else-- including gays.

I am capable of turning my head away, whenever I see something I do not particularly want to see. You ought to try that, the next time you see some gay person being "flamboyant". It might ease those feelings of disgust you have for them.

As for the "don't ask don't tell"? It was a horrid abuse of power: too many brave men and women who only wished to serve their country, were denied that right because of a hateful policy.

And there is **no** secular reason to deny them that right-- none.

It was **pure** bigoted **religion**-- something specifically prohibited by the Constitution.

But, I find that most religious people do not like the Constitution-- and would as soon abolish it.

Many in Washington has said as much.... mostly among the TeaBagger crowd.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182137 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
common knowledge and has been since the beginning of time
But not.... in your bible! Because none of that can be found in your bible...!

Amazing!

The authors of your bible were basically **ignorant** of the this "common knowledge".

How **about** that-- they [bible-writers] were dumber than a modern 5 year old...!
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182138 Oct 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Eagle, you have the mind of a child. You are not able to process information given to you, especially when it involves science in any way, much like a child. However, unlike a child, you ignore or reject factual information, that is a sure sign of some serious mental disorder. You are unable to make logical correlations, as in your feeble attempt to make a correlation between Japanese tsunami debris float in the Pacific and a year long voyage of a 400 foot wooden boat loaded with tons of animals and supplies, just shear stupidity.
I am done trying to have any meaningful conversation with you. I can carry on a conversation with a child for about 20 seconds, with you, about half that. You'll see no more replies from me, Good luck with your severe delusions!!!
I just wanted to deliver it in the most simple form so your compadres could understand.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#182139 Oct 30, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe in the right for citizens to peaceful assembly and the right to free speech. That doesn’t mean I’m throwing in all my support in every cause or belief because a group has a parade.
So long as you won't deny them their rights to parade, then.

That is rather more tolerant of you, than most folk who follow your religion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182140 Oct 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Doctor, yes I do disagree. I believe your procedure will kill the patient. Too radical and not thought out enough. I'm going to hurt your feelings, IANS. You invested a lot of time and money in becoming a god. You become one for a while until the real gods changed the game on you. Then you got out of the game. While you were a doctor you were a player in the game. You had influence in it. You had steady money coming in from it. You had position to effect changes. You were in the elite,so to speak. Now you and your savings are totally dependent on the actions of others. You have no influence except for what you write on here. You are living good right now, but your energy source was shut off, so you are running on reserves. You have put yourself in the same situation as happens in millions of ghettos homes and trailers on check day. I have no faith in your judgement.
I have never had any power except over my own life, and even that is partial as you note. I was never a player or a god. Power and influence don't interest me beyond control over my own life, and to be respected by the people I respect.

Thanks for your interest in our "energy source" and "reserves," by which I presume you mean our savings and cash flow, but fortunately, money is not an issue. We have saved, we have no debt, we live humbly, and we are satisfied with what we have.

It's been a good life, and has never been better than it is now. Life is easy, full, and beautiful. We are very happy, and I am very grateful for all of the good luck and help I have had along the way. But you know all of that already. We've discussed our lives before.

Why would you want to hurt me? Because I criticize organized religion and faith based thought? Because I'm happy?

Judged:

14

14

13

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182141 Oct 31, 2013
PrinceofDarkness wrote:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my- images/507/haveagreatdayresize 3.jpg/
Yikes! The Internet is really the last nail in organized religion's coffin.

The free exchange of ideas and opinions has always been its enemy. It began with Gutenberg and general literacy, and progressed to liberal social democracies and the freedom of expression, public education, and now global telecommunications, where people are free to express under the cloak of anonymity and distance any sentiment about religion including the utter contempt and disrespect for it that that poster represents.

Who or what can withstand so much bad press? There are the best sellers from Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and the like. There is the entertainment media where preachers are depicted as out of touch, and the religious as comical. There is the news with its endless stream of priest and televangelist scandals, and the extremely ugly public personalities of religion like Bush, Palin, Santorum, Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Dobson, and Phelps.

And there are the message boards like these where people share information and find out that they are not alone in their contempt and disgust for the degradation brought by the church. It's how the pedophile scandal in the church arose. Paying off boys to be quiet worked for decades - until the Internet, with which they and their families could find one another despite the gag orders, and the magnitude of the problem could be exposed to the light of day.

Judged:

13

13

13

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
UIdiotRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182142 Oct 31, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think what you are wanting to know more specifically what level of prejudice I have for Gays.
Gays have been around all the way back to Noah’s day. One of Noah’s sons was a homosexual or bisexual.
I have said many times before I don’t understand homosexuality. I don’t believe we as a society will ever see unbiased research on the matter. I personally believe some homosexuals are indeed born that way. But this percentage is small in my view.
I think the majority of gays have been shaped that way by environmental factors. I had a friend for example named Robert. Robert’s Dad divorced his Mother when Robert was a small child. He was raised by his sweet Mom and three sisters.
Robert was greatly influenced by his environment and turned Gay. He was one of the first people to die of Aids in Houston back in the 80’s.
Gays have the right to live and work in our society. They have the right not to be harassed, beaten, and killed. We all as have those same rights.
I don’t participate Gay Pride Parades and I don’t support Gay marriage. I think ones sexual preference is a personal choice and not anyone’s business. I don’t want it made my business. And I prefer not to be told. I liked the military’s don’t ask don’t tell policy. I just believe it should be kept personal. Not in the closet but keep it in the bedroom with the doors locked and the shades pulled.
Do I hate Gays?
Not at all although I will be accused of hate just because I disagree with Gay marriage. I think the world has enough hate already. No one should be hated because of their sexual orientation.
You jarheads support gays because they help your cause else you see them and all civilians of the world to be snuff out with your war machines, am i right? LOL!
UIdiotRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#182143 Oct 31, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Yikes! The Internet is really the last nail in organized religion's coffin.
The free exchange of ideas and opinions has always been its enemy. It began with Gutenberg and general literacy, and progressed to liberal social democracies and the freedom of expression, public education, and now global telecommunications, where people are free to express under the cloak of anonymity and distance any sentiment about religion including the utter contempt and disrespect for it that that poster represents.
Who or what can withstand so much bad press? There are the best sellers from Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and the like. There is the entertainment media where preachers are depicted as out of touch, and the religious as comical. There is the news with its endless stream of priest and televangelist scandals, and the extremely ugly public personalities of religion like Bush, Palin, Santorum, Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Dobson, and Phelps.
And there are the message boards like these where people share information and find out that they are not alone in their contempt and disgust for the degradation brought by the church. It's how the pedophile scandal in the church arose. Paying off boys to be quiet worked for decades - until the Internet, with which they and their families could find one another despite the gag orders, and the magnitude of the problem could be exposed to the light of day.
Some religious nutcases no not how they divide brothers, families and even nations to wars in name of politics that ruin many lives at home and abroad. When will they ever wake up?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182144 Oct 31, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Well... the problem lies in the fact that some folk wish to get the Noah flood taught in public schools along side real science.
I'm thinking that they should start teaching the stork theory of obstetrics in biology classes as well. You know - present both sides of this highly controversial issue and let the kids decide.

Have you heard about intelligent falling and intelligent freezing? The latter should be of interest to our snow-is-water freethinkers:

[1] "Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence,'God' if you will, is pushing them down."
http://www.theonion.com/articles/evangelical-...

[2] "Some militant secularists believe that water freezes at 32°. The enlightened know that water freezes whenever God wants it to. This transition from water to ice is too complex to happen naturalistically at some random temperature."
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/your_inquire...

Judged:

13

13

12

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182145 Oct 31, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Why would silly myths designed to enslave you have so many errors, contradictions, and such details in them?
Detail? Only in irrelevant areas, such as genealogies, endless lists of arbitrary and cruel laws and commandments, and stories of betrayal, war and genocide.

But not where it would count: scientific matters. The creation myth is basically one or two paragraphs of sentences that say goddidit with magic.

Why would silly myths designed to enslave you have so many errors and contradictions? The answer is self-evident: simple, primitive, superstitious people inventing tales based on a limited and inaccurate understanding of reality without coordinating them would inevitably come up with such a thing.

The better question is why do people believe a god wrote such a mess?

Judged:

13

13

13

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182146 Oct 31, 2013
THE PRICE OF CHRISTIANITY – THE HARM
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

Religious zealotry over the centuries has been directly responsible for countless deaths, imprisonments, needless suffering, torturings, and the oppression of people on grounds of sex, race, colour, sexuality or belief. A few obvious examples :

• The Crusades.

• The Inquisition.

• Witch trials in Europe and America.

• The Divine right of Kings (valid until killed by another Divinely-appointed King).

• Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.

• The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They're devil-worshippers!"), the Romans demonizing Christians ("They're atheists and cannibals!").

• Persecution of Heretics - e.g. Galileo for daring to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun.

• Children dying because their parents refused them medical treatment on religious grounds; relying
instead on faith-healers and prayer.

• Slavery, supposedly supported by scripture ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, just as you would obey Christ.", St.Paul, Ephesians 6:5)

• Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.

• The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.

• Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.

• Persecution/punishment of blasphemers (Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on him), and blasphemy laws in general.

• The requirement of theism in order to stand for public office or to testify in court.

• Serial killers believing they are doing the work of Satan (or sometimes Jesus).

• Often-fatal exorcisms by priests believing they are destroying the work of Satan.

• People suffering dreadful injury or death in the belief that their faith has made them invulnerable (e.g. people climbing into lion enclosures at zoos, with a Bible as protection).

• Whole societies divided by minor differences in belief or doctrine, often resulting in violence.

• Mass suicides of cult-members following a charismatic leader who believes the world is about to End (most recently, the Heaven's Gate and Solar Temple cults - there will be more as we approach the year 2000).

• The attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith (e.g. the Jewish Holocaust, "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia).

• Blood sacrifices to appease the Gods, or to ensure a good harvest.(The Aztecs made daily human sacrifices to ensure that the Sun would rise. Or did they?)

• The practice of "female circumcision" (more accurately termed genital mutilation).

• The discouragement of rational, critical thought (resulting in young-earth creationists, for example).

• Uncontrolled population growth caused (or at least helped) by churches prohibiting birth-control and abortion.(You can also add : unwanted pregnancies, ill-fated forced marriages, and pregnant teenagers condemned to a life in mental institutions to avoid embarrassing their families.)

• The spread of sexually transmitted diseases (e.g. AIDS) due to churches prohibiting the use of condoms.

• Believers whipping, impaling, poisoning or crucifying themselves during religious festivals as a demonstration of their faith and piety.

• Suicide bombers taught to believe that martyrs go straight to Paradise.

• The indoctrination of children into the religion of their parents, giving them an arbitrary, life-long belief that is almost entirely dependent on their place of birth.

• Women treated as second-class citizens or even slaves (article : Islam's Shame).

• Pentecostal snake-handlers (Augusta Chronicle news article)

Judged:

10

10

9

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 2 hr Regolith Based Li... 32,169
hell is a real place. so.. ahtiesm is a faux li... 2 hr Eagle 12 - 12
News Why Atheist Richard Dawkins Supports Religious ... 2 hr Eagle 12 - 760
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 4 hr Science 76,945
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... (Jan '17) 8 hr Dogen 4,309
News The war on Christmas (Dec '10) Jul 18 John 4,952
The Dumbest Thing Posted by a Godbot (Jun '10) Jul 17 Eagle 12 - 6,123
More from around the web