Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258039 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181903 Oct 29, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>CONCENTRATE, now, really concentrate. A modern day life boat like they use on Oil rigs and large ships are 25-30 feet in length, made for very strong composites or fiberglass. Now to the Ark, over 400 feet in length and made ENTIRELY OF WOOD. Can you or can you NOT see the difference?
Now, take a very long board, lest say 25 feet. Balance it on a saw horse, now put very heavy weights on both ends, whats happens? At the very least the board will BEND, probably break. Now put your 400 plus foot wooden Ark on a large wave, it goes up the face of the wave and at some point it will be as the board on the saw horse, balancing on the wave with the bow and stern unsupported. So maybe it doesn't break, but it will certainly twist, and then the next wave comes, and the ark twists once again, and another wave, and another, a non-stop parade of huge ocean waves, how long before your Ark splits down the middle or twists so repeatedly that she begins to ship water. No bilge pumps, how long before she slips under the waves?
It is exactly why she has no propulsion that she would be in constant danger. Without the ability to face the waves head on she would be like a cork with waves battering her from all sides. You do know that is is not uncommon for ocean waves to reach the height of 70-100 feet in storms. An oil rig of the coast of Newfoundland had its platform 75 feet above the ocean, in an Atlantic storm she simply DISAPPEARED with all hands. No trace of it was ever found. And now you have a 400 foot wooden boat loaded with animals and supplies, bobbing around in Ocean, she would NOT stand a chance against the mighty ocean.
Why do you think EVERY wooden ship over 300 feet, HAD to have steel reenforcement rods and iron brackets? And still they leaked so badly that bilge pumps had a difficult time keeping up with the leaks.
Yes it was designed for a one time use, or so the fable goes, but it supposedly spent a entire year at sea. Do you even have a clue as to how much growth can accumulate on an unprotected hull, its massive.
It wasn’t made to sail the entire globe Doctor. It was a rescue craft with lots of compartments. Giving it internal support for the bulkheads.

Did you know the Amish have been known to build large barns without the use of metal or nails. Completely all wood and these barns have lasted for decades.

So why couldn’t a barge be built entirely of wood and be sea worthy for at least one year? Had the bible said it was made out of stone and rocks. You would have a right to be skeptical. But it was made out of wood.

And history has recorded other very large vessels. One being the “Tessarakonteres.” It’s length was reported to be 420 feet. Made of wood. Hellenistic period.

For hundreds of yeas the Egyptian Pyramids puzzled people in how in a primitive society could build such structures without modern machinery. Yet they did it.

It is not outside the bounds of reasoning to believe such a vessel could be made to last at least one year.

Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181904 Oct 29, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Face it, you can't allow hard science to puncture your religious beliefs - your life would collapse like a house of cards.
But it depends on what you mean by “hard” science. If you are referring to pseudo science then I’m a skeptic.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181905 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the ballast and center of gravity determine how much of that midsection will balance on?
The weight will displace water, period. Going up or down a wave. You center the weight over an area long enough to take that strain off the center, which will also help keep from pitching and yawing so much. Of course you need sufficient draft. The difference between a round cork bobber and one of those elongated ones. They probably do something like that in mind when loading large cargo ships. Actually, I am pretty certain they do. You spread your load for maximum stability and less structural stress.
Hey, Shem!!! Make sure to put them elephants and rhinos in the middle, then the lions and tigers, and the birds fore and aft!
OK, Dad!
Loony, go up to the bow and toot your horn. We'll load the boat, OK?
.Jesus, Kibbitzers, what a pain in the ass.
To be clear, your're arguing against noahs ark being complete and utter bollocks.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181906 Oct 29, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
The simple physical problems with the construction material alone are but one of the numerous problems that your myth based religion suffers.
"Hogging and sagging"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogging_and_sagg...
Other large wooden vessels have been recorded in history.

Tessarakonteres 420 feet.

“A hull of such size would involve great bend-induced stresses, which were dealt with using strake edge jointing. The plank shear issue was more directly addressed in the ancient practice of mortise and tenon-jointed planks (strakes), which "certainly goes back to 14th century BC and very probably before that".[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessarakonteres
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181907 Oct 29, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>CONCENTRATE, now, really concentrate. A modern day life boat like they use on Oil rigs and large ships are 25-30 feet in length, made for very strong composites or fiberglass. Now to the Ark, over 400 feet in length and made ENTIRELY OF WOOD. Can you or can you NOT see the difference?
Now, take a very long board, lest say 25 feet. Balance it on a saw horse, now put very heavy weights on both ends, whats happens? At the very least the board will BEND, probably break. Now put your 400 plus foot wooden Ark on a large wave, it goes up the face of the wave and at some point it will be as the board on the saw horse, balancing on the wave with the bow and stern unsupported. So maybe it doesn't break, but it will certainly twist, and then the next wave comes, and the ark twists once again, and another wave, and another, a non-stop parade of huge ocean waves, how long before your Ark splits down the middle or twists so repeatedly that she begins to ship water. No bilge pumps, how long before she slips under the waves?
It is exactly why she has no propulsion that she would be in constant danger. Without the ability to face the waves head on she would be like a cork with waves battering her from all sides. You do know that is is not uncommon for ocean waves to reach the height of 70-100 feet in storms. An oil rig of the coast of Newfoundland had its platform 75 feet above the ocean, in an Atlantic storm she simply DISAPPEARED with all hands. No trace of it was ever found. And now you have a 400 foot wooden boat loaded with animals and supplies, bobbing around in Ocean, she would NOT stand a chance against the mighty ocean.
Why do you think EVERY wooden ship over 300 feet, HAD to have steel reenforcement rods and iron brackets? And still they leaked so badly that bilge pumps had a difficult time keeping up with the leaks.
Yes it was designed for a one time use, or so the fable goes, but it supposedly spent a entire year at sea. Do you even have a clue as to how much growth can accumulate on an unprotected hull, its massive.
Other large wooden vessels have been recorded in history.

Tessarakonteres 420 feet.

“A hull of such size would involve great bend-induced stresses, which were dealt with using strake edge jointing. The plank shear issue was more directly addressed in the ancient practice of mortise and tenon-jointed planks (strakes), which "certainly goes back to 14th century BC and very probably before that".[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessarakonteres
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#181908 Oct 29, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
Agnostics avoid the "pixie atheism Malarkey"
What?
LCNLin

Marietta, GA

#181909 Oct 29, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
To be clear, your're arguing against noahs ark being complete and utter bollocks.
UK has The Church of England as Established Church.
Funny she advises Americans while in her own Kingdom she pays taxes to the Church

God Save the Queen

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#181910 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasn’t made to sail the entire globe Doctor. It was a rescue craft with lots of compartments. Giving it internal support for the bulkheads.
Did you know the Amish have been known to build large barns without the use of metal or nails. Completely all wood and these barns have lasted for decades.
So why couldn’t a barge be built entirely of wood and be sea worthy for at least one year? Had the bible said it was made out of stone and rocks. You would have a right to be skeptical. But it was made out of wood.
And history has recorded other very large vessels. One being the “Tessarakonteres.” It’s length was reported to be 420 feet. Made of wood. Hellenistic period.
For hundreds of yeas the Egyptian Pyramids puzzled people in how in a primitive society could build such structures without modern machinery. Yet they did it.
It is not outside the bounds of reasoning to believe such a vessel could be made to last at least one year.
I haven't really studied the account. Is there mention of how long the keel was to be? The shape of it? Or if there was a keel? Or the draft of the craft?

A dagger pointed downwards hull with weight at the bottom would lend much to strength and stability in rough water if you are just going to float. Center of gravity and leverage to keep the craft relatively horizontal.

Actually, large boulders on ropes hanging over the sides would accomplish much the same effect. Would also give you a shallower draft.

I think they call them sea anchors.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#181911 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
So why couldn’t a barge be built entirely of wood and be sea worthy for at least one year?

It is not outside the bounds of reasoning to believe such a vessel could be made to last at least one year.
Yes, I have heard that the ark sang this song:

I will never love you,
The cost of love's too dear.
But though I'll never love you,
I'll stay with you one year.

And we can sing in the sunshine,
We'll laugh everyday,
We'll sing in the sunshine,
Then I'll be on my way.

(Gale Garnett)

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#181912 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just how would they keep that a secret?
Good grief, you're an idiot.

You do understand what the word "world" means, right?

EVERYONE in the world knew Noah was building an ark?

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#181913 Oct 29, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Good grief, you're an idiot.
You do understand what the word "world" means, right?
EVERYONE in the world knew Noah was building an ark?
Uneducated savage. Your world does not mean my world. Thank God.

" 2.
a part or aspect of human life or of the natural features of the earth, in particular.
a region or group of countries.
"the English-speaking world"
a period of history.
"the ancient world"
a group of living things.
"the animal world"
the people, places, and activities to do with a particular thing.
"they were a legend in the world of British theater"
synonyms: sphere, society, circle, arena, milieu, province, domain, orbit, preserve, realm, field, discipline, area, sector More
"the academic world"
human and social interaction.
"he has almost completely withdrawn from the world"
synonyms: society, material things, secular interests, temporal concerns, earthly concerns More
"she renounced the world"
average, respectable, or fashionable people or their customs or opinions.
a person's life and activities.
noun: one's world;&#8195;plural noun: one's worlds
"he felt his whole world had collapsed"
everything that exists outside oneself.
a stage of human life, either mortal or after death.
"in this world and the next"
secular interests and affairs.
"parents are not viewed as the primary educators of their own children, either in the world or in the church"

Origin
More
Old English w(e)oruld, from a Germanic compound meaning ‘age of man’; related to Dutch wereld and German Welt .

https://www.google.com/search...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#181914 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Skeptics would have justification had the bible described the Ark being made out of stone and rocks.
But it was wood.
You obviously didn't read the link...

Hogging and sagging.

Hogging is the stress a ship's hull or keel experiences that causes the center or the keel to bend upward. Sagging is the stress a ship's hull or keel is placed under when a wave is the same length as the ship and the ship is in the trough of two waves. This causes the middle of the ship to bend down slightly, and depending of the level of bend, may cause the hull to snap or crack.
Sagging or dynamic hogging may have been what sank the Prestige off Spain on 19 November 2002.
Hogging, or "hog", also refers to the semi-permanent bend in the keel, especially in wooden-hulled ships, caused over time by the ship's center's being more buoyant than the bow or stern."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogging_and_sagg...

Hogging

"Until the 1920's a large percentage of the world's shipping consisted of large wooden ships and their plague, after plain old rot, was "hog". A ship floating quietly in still water is subjected to external forces. These are the weight of the vessel on its cargo (downwards) and the buoyancy force (upwards). Archimedes showed us that for a floating vessel, these two forces must be equal in magnitude. For a floating rectangular piece of wood, they are also equal in distribution. For most normally shaped ships, the distribution is not equal. For example, when an empty ship has more weight (relatively heavy structure, engines and equipment) in the ends, and more buoyancy in the middle. This "excess" of buoyancy in the middle cause the middle to rise up and the ends to bend down -- a hog in profile. The opposite condition is sagging. For old wooden ships, this resulted in a long term, plastic deformation. The total curvature could be a meter or more in larger vessels. Some vessels like the Wapama hogged so much that they nearly broke in two.

Hogging is no longer the problem it was in the 1920's when it threatened the nation's merchant fleet -- because those ships have sunk!"
http://www.tricoastal.com/shipbuilding/woodsh...
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#181915 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't really studied the account. Is there mention of how long the keel was to be? The shape of it? Or if there was a keel? Or the draft of the craft?
A dagger pointed downwards hull with weight at the bottom would lend much to strength and stability in rough water if you are just going to float. Center of gravity and leverage to keep the craft relatively horizontal.
Actually, large boulders on ropes hanging over the sides would accomplish much the same effect. Would also give you a shallower draft.
I think they call them sea anchors.
Way to go Dave, you absolutely nailed that one... Now, where did they store the food supply for eight people and two of every animal in the world? I think of all the specialized dietary needs in any metropolitan zoo, but, by golly, god took care of that, huh? Wonder where they kept the coelacanths? Oh, I reckon god destroyed all the diseases that would occur in that stinking environment over the course of a year. Yeah, that must be it.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#181916 Oct 29, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Way to go Dave, you absolutely nailed that one... Now, where did they store the food supply for eight people and two of every animal in the world? I think of all the specialized dietary needs in any metropolitan zoo, but, by golly, god took care of that, huh? Wonder where they kept the coelacanths? Oh, I reckon god destroyed all the diseases that would occur in that stinking environment over the course of a year. Yeah, that must be it.
Define world, then we can figure out animals and logistics.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181917 Oct 29, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Good grief, you're an idiot.
You do understand what the word "world" means, right?
EVERYONE in the world knew Noah was building an ark?
Reverting to cheap insults tells me that you’re frustrated and lacking in a serious response. I’m sorry that’s the case.

Have you ever heard of news?

News has been traveling on foot for thousands of years.

You don’t think news traveled in ancient days?

Something you also haven’t considered. The world population was not what it is today. No one actually knows the number because census didn’t take place. But it is safe to assume that it was only a fraction of what it is today.

More insults are welcome because it is a sign your frustration is growing.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#181918 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the ballast and center of gravity determine how much of that midsection will balance on?
The weight will displace water, period. Going up or down a wave. You center the weight over an area long enough to take that strain off the center, which will also help keep from pitching and yawing so much. Of course you need sufficient draft. The difference between a round cork bobber and one of those elongated ones. They probably do something like that in mind when loading large cargo ships. Actually, I am pretty certain they do. You spread your load for maximum stability and less structural stress.
Hey, Shem!!! Make sure to put them elephants and rhinos in the middle, then the lions and tigers, and the birds fore and aft!
OK, Dad!
Loony, go up to the bow and toot your horn. We'll load the boat, OK?
.Jesus, Kibbitzers, what a pain in the ass.
Get a 40 ft board and go outside. The magento currents should preferably be intense as possible, but I'll let you be the judge of that. Place it on a saw horse. Place a 100 pound weight in the middle, and label it "elephants and rhinos." Place two 50 pound weights on either end, and label them "lions, tigers, and birds." Throw some iron dust in the air and spin three times in a circle before it hits the ground. Make an offering to the magnets. Hang a string from your hair and attach it to the center of the board for added structural stability. Observe as the middle weight does nothing to counteract the stress from the sides and you slip even further into a state of complete detachment from reality.
christINSANITY is EVIL

Wheatley, Canada

#181920 Oct 29, 2013
Mikko wrote:
Dave and the team of losers have been down voting atheists and up voting them self
The decline of the Christian faith in America is accelerating.
The results of a new survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life were just released, and the numbers are staggering. The percentage of all U.S. adults with no religious affiliation at all is nearly up to 20 percent.
Even more frightening, 32 percent of all U.S. adults under the age of 30 have no religious affiliation whatsoever. Meanwhile, the percentage of the U.S. population that is Protestant has hit an all-time low.
Sadly, this new survey just confirms what a whole bunch of other surveys have shown over the past few years. The truth is that America is very clearly turning away from Christianity. Right up front I will disclose that I am a Christian, so I consider this to be a very bad thing. Others that are reading this may consider the statistics below to be wonderful news. But what we should all be able to agree on is that the long-term trends clearly show that Americans are increasingly rejecting the Christian faith. So what does this mean for the future of our nation? Where does America go from here? Those are very interesting questions.

Once upon a time, the Christian faith had an overwhelming influence on every day life in America. Even as late as 1972, a whopping 62 percent of all Americans were Protestant and an astounding 93 percent of all Americans claimed to be affiliated with a religion of one sort or another.

But now things are dramatically changing.

Posted below are 19 numbers which prove that America is turning away from Christianity. The first 10 numbers are from the new survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life that was just released on Tuesday….

#1 Nearly one-fifth of all U.S. adults have no religious affiliation whatsoever. Back in 1972, only 7 percent of all U.S. adults had no religious affiliation.

#2 The number of Americans with no religious affiliation has grown by 25 percent over the past five years.

#3 The younger you are the more likely you are not to be affiliated with a religion. 9 percent of all U.S. adults that are 65 or older have no religious affiliation, but a whopping 32 percent of all U.S. adults under the age of 30 have no religious affiliation.

#4 88 percent of those that are religiously unaffiliated “are not looking for religion”.

#5 73 percent of the religiously unaffiliated support gay marriage and 72 percent of the religiously unaffiliated support legalized abortion.

#6 The religiously unaffiliated now make up 24 percent of all registered voters “who are Democrats or lean Democratic”.

#7 For the first time ever, Protestants do not make up a majority of the U.S. population. In 2007, Protestants made up 53 percent of the U.S. population, but now they only make up 48 percent of the U.S. population. Way back in 1972, Protestants made up 62 percent of the U.S. population.

#8 29 percent of all U.S. adults “seldom or never attend religious services”.

#9 51 percent of all U.S. adults believe that churches and other religious organizations “are too concerned with money and power”.

#10 66 percent of all U.S. adults believe that religion is “losing its influence on American life”.

Here are some more numbers which show that Christianity is declining in America….

#11 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of Americans with “no religion” more than doubled between 1990 and 2008.

If you are a Christian, those numbers should be very sobering. The Church is most definitely losing ground in the United States.

Delivered by The Daily Sheeple
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#181922 Oct 29, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously didn't read the link...
Hogging and sagging.
Hogging is the stress a ship's hull or keel experiences that causes the center or the keel to bend upward. Sagging is the stress a ship's hull or keel is placed under when a wave is the same length as the ship and the ship is in the trough of two waves. This causes the middle of the ship to bend down slightly, and depending of the level of bend, may cause the hull to snap or crack.
Sagging or dynamic hogging may have been what sank the Prestige off Spain on 19 November 2002.
Hogging, or "hog", also refers to the semi-permanent bend in the keel, especially in wooden-hulled ships, caused over time by the ship's center's being more buoyant than the bow or stern."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogging_and_sagg...
Hogging
"Until the 1920's a large percentage of the world's shipping consisted of large wooden ships and their plague, after plain old rot, was "hog". A ship floating quietly in still water is subjected to external forces. These are the weight of the vessel on its cargo (downwards) and the buoyancy force (upwards). Archimedes showed us that for a floating vessel, these two forces must be equal in magnitude. For a floating rectangular piece of wood, they are also equal in distribution. For most normally shaped ships, the distribution is not equal. For example, when an empty ship has more weight (relatively heavy structure, engines and equipment) in the ends, and more buoyancy in the middle. This "excess" of buoyancy in the middle cause the middle to rise up and the ends to bend down -- a hog in profile. The opposite condition is sagging. For old wooden ships, this resulted in a long term, plastic deformation. The total curvature could be a meter or more in larger vessels. Some vessels like the Wapama hogged so much that they nearly broke in two.
Hogging is no longer the problem it was in the 1920's when it threatened the nation's merchant fleet -- because those ships have sunk!"
http://www.tricoastal.com/shipbuilding/woodsh...
Any vessel is subjected to hydraulic forces and other physics. The same goes for a small survival raft made of wood.

Is it possible a large vessel could be made of wood? Yes it is and other large wood vessels are recorded in history.

Is it possible this large wood vessel could survive at sea for just one year?

Yes it is possible. We have had debris from Japan’s Tsunami come all the way from Japan and land on US shores one year later. This debris was not made for a cross oceanic trip. But is survived the ocean trip.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#181923 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Define world, then we can figure out animals and logistics.
Oh, for Christ's sake, shut up.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#181924 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Since man has been walking on the Earth. Men knew what snow was made of. I’m sorry I have hurt your pride Doctor. But it’s the way you view things. You have a very narrow view and this is why you are having such troubles.
Snow = Water
This from Genesis 7. Point out the part were it talks about *snow* covering the mountain peaks. Oppps, I don't see a thing having to do with snow, all I see is water, water, and more water, ALL the water from a FLOOD. When was the last time you saw a FLOOD consisting of SNOW?

20----The WATER rose and COVERED the mountains to a depth of more than 15 cubics. SNOW, nope don't see any SNOW. So maybe you don't believe your own holy book, or maybe you think God is lying to you, or, and most likely you're are just making shit up to cover for your inability to argue honestly. You are getting worse at this, you do know this right? Your lies and deflections, your inability to apply reason and logic, are getting much worse. Are you feeling ok?

Go back and read your bible, it will probably be your first time.

17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[a][b] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

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