Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Jul 18, 2009, Webbunny tumblelog story titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181795 Oct 28, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. But first we'll have to get rid of the "yellow-rag journalists" that proliferate in cyberspace as does the National Enquirer in newsprint.
*sighs*
The modern young kids are wiser than we were at the same age, I think.

They are learning first-hand, what bullshyt is, and as a result, learning how to tell the difference between it and reality.

Which is why religion is on a rapid decline.. seeing as it's 100% bullshyt.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181796 Oct 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, you are too funny I found Shearer nautical firm, but they have deleted their site that dealt with the Ark. Could you be more dishonest!!!! Tell you what, YOU find the site were they discuss to viability of the Ark and post it, otherwise your site is bogus.
You know NOTHING about boats and the sea, so stop pretending you do. I've spent a good part of my life on the ocean is a boat. Any craft, ANY, over 300 feet in length, built of ONLY wood is unseaworthy. ALL wooden boats over 300 feet need to be reenforced with steel rods and iron braces. Wood is flexible, it becomes more FLEXIBLE the longer the pieces are. A wooden boat is heavy sea's *twists* The other planking separates and the boat takes on water. In many of these ship's the bilge pumps were barely capable of keeping up with the water being taken on. And these were boats that were reenforced with steel and iron. A boat unable to keep her bow into the waves becomes a bobbing cork, battered on all sides by massive waves. A ship the size of the Ark, and loaded as she was, would not have lasted a week at sea, and never a year. After six months her hull would have collected massive amounts of sea growth, adding even more weight to her. A wooden boat the size of the Ark with no reenforcement, no means of propulsion to keep her point into the waves, and no means of keeping massive amount of sea growth under her hull, is quite simple a nautical impossibility. Sorry for your loss!!!
I see, you know a lot, and you think itís impossible to have H2O covering a mountain top. Letís see, whatís on top of Mt McKinley?

According to you itís a dry desert. Itís impossible for water to be covering a mountain top?

Itís called snow, H20, One hydrogen and two oxygen molecules. Water in the frozen form.

I hope you are much better at music then you are in science and engineering. The last I heard, wood floats in most cases. Tons of it was floated down rivers all over America for over a hundred years to get to saw mills.

Letís see a Ark made of wood is not like a Ark made of concrete. I bet since wood floats thereís a good chance a Ark made out of wood will float.

Iím really not trying to make you look bad Doctor. Youíre doing a good job of that all by yourself.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181797 Oct 28, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I will say one thing, Eagle-- you are a lot of things, true.
But I've never seen you threaten anyone with murder.
Kudos, man.
Thank you my friend.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181798 Oct 28, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it is-- if the "covering" was intended to be snow? The story would say so-- as the bible-writers were not unfamiliar with snow.
But.
H2O? Really?
The bible's god is 100% unfamiliar with that term--
-- there is **nothing** in the bible that explains that water is made up of oxygen and hydrogen.
Nothing.
Such an important fact ought to have had a mention, don't you think?
No?
Obviously the bible-writers flunked basic science.
I bet people of earlier times knew if you melted snow it would turn to water. Snow = Water

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181799 Oct 28, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, you know a lot, and you think itís impossible to have H2O covering a mountain top. Letís see, whatís on top of Mt McKinley?
According to you itís a dry desert. Itís impossible for water to be covering a mountain top?
Itís called snow, H20, One hydrogen and two oxygen molecules. Water in the frozen form.
I hope you are much better at music then you are in science and engineering. The last I heard, wood floats in most cases. Tons of it was floated down rivers all over America for over a hundred years to get to saw mills.
Letís see a Ark made of wood is not like a Ark made of concrete. I bet since wood floats thereís a good chance a Ark made out of wood will float.
Iím really not trying to make you look bad Doctor. Youíre doing a good job of that all by yourself.
I love how you are busy re-writing the bible's story in a vain effort to try to fix it's obvious errors.

It's cute.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181800 Oct 28, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
A boat the size of the ark? Would leak. That is the **facts** jack.
A **wooden** framed boat that size, twists with each passing wave.
With **each** and **every** twist? Water would leak in.
The weight of thousands of animals is not trivial...
.. and the weight of 180 days worth of food is even greater.
So the boat? Would sink like a stone-- within 30 minutes, in fact.
Iím not a seaman but I do know wood can swell when it is wet.

And many of ship sailed the ocean made entirely of wood.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181801 Oct 28, 2013
One more thing:

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lordís work."
[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181802 Oct 28, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you my friend.
You are most welcome-- I meant every word in that post.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181803 Oct 28, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>No such documentation for this Shearer and associates can be found. It is your responsibility to post such documentation, otherwise we will all know that you are lying. I told you, I went to the site, it was deleted. Most likely because any Marine engineer would realize how impossible an Ark as described in the bible is. So, find this article, and post it, or apologize for being a bold faced liar.
Exactly how does one "Study" Noah's Ark? There is no such vessel, nor has anyone ever found evidence of this mythical vessel, so how the hell does one "Study" that which does not exist?
The specs were listed in the Bible.

It was meant for one voyage.

It was a one time escape vehicle and thatís it.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#181804 Oct 28, 2013
LCNlin wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler seemed also to agree with you
ďAs far as we are concerned, weíve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 394
(...)
I looked up "Hitlers Secret Conversations". You're welcome to supply anything you'd like in support of "Hitler's Secret Conversations".

"Hitler's Table Talk

Those who deny Hitler as a Christian will invariably find the recorded table talk conversations of Hitler from 1941 to 1944 as incontrovertible evidence that he could not have been a Christian. The source usually comes from the English translation (from a French translation) edition by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens, with an introduction by H.R. Trevor-Roper.(...)

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by FranÁois Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on!"

Table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity. http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm
End Quote.

There is more at the above link.

Another view from a Christian Apologetics site.

http://www.answers.org/apologetics/Hitquote.h...

A link from a site that approaches the subject from a position of looking at it as a whole, neither Christian, nor otherwise. I think this is where the truth of the matter is when speaking of Hitler and his brand of Christianity.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699...

My opinion.

The Christian soldiers that followed Hitlers orders weren't Christians either, right? The 94% Christian population of Germany, that allowed Hitler to flourish, weren't Christians either, right?

Riiiight.

It's a great belief system when you can claim someone isn't a Real Christianô when they do something you don't approve of.

That way, only the Christians that do things you approve of, are Real Christiansô.

You're just proving Hitler was a bad Christian, assisted by many other bad Christians while "Real Christiansô", stood by and watched.

It really doesn't matter if Hitler was a Real Christianô. Hitler was a theist, at the least.

The fact remains.

A country comprised of 94% Christians (Army too) followed him, supported his war machine, and were either:

1. Aware of what Hitler was doing, and supported essentially all actions.

2. Aware and ignored the reality of what Hitler was doing. Maybe feeling fearfully powerless to stop it. In effect, still supporting it(that freewill thing).

3. Completely unaware of what Hitler was doing, and knew nothing of the atrocities Hitler was committing.

There may be more options, probably not many, however, I find it hard to think it was the 3rd option.

Hitler could have been a Polynesian Sun Worshiper or paid homage to whales as gods, and entire country of the god fearing Christians followed Hitler either willfully or by force.

Christianity did them no good at all.

Hitler was merely the focal point the god had provided, in their belief, and their belief told them he was doing the work of their god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181805 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
There are enough water molecules on and in the earth to rise above Everest if it was dumped on the surface as "water".
Nope, not even close, Dave. Simply claiming it doesn't make it so. Let's crunch some numbers:

[1] The total amount of water on earth is about 1,386,000,000 cubic kilometers
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.htm...

[2] Most of it is in the oceans, the volume of which is about 1,300,000,000 km3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean

Now we calculate how much water it would take to cover Everest:

[3] The mean radius of the unflooded earth is about 6370 km
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_radius

[4] The height of Mt. Everest is 8.85 km (5.50 miles, 29029 feet)
http://www.bharatonline.com/nepal/mount-evere...

[5] The volume of a sphere is =(4/3)(pi)( r^3)

[6] The volume of the unflooded earth is =(4/3)(3.14)(6370)^3 = 1.08214805 x 10^12 = 1,082,148,050,000 km3

[7] Volume of flooded earth =(4/3)(3.14)(6370 + 8.85)^3 = 1.08666469 x 10^12 = 1,086,664,690,000 km3

[8] The difference = about 4,500,000,000 km3 of water that must be added to the earth to cover Everest, which is three times the total amount of water already on earth - a fourfold dilution.

The water simply isn't available. If you'd like, we can look at the various compartments of water apart from the oceans in detail, which altogether comprise less than 4% of the earth's water: surface ice (glaciers, ice caps, and mountain snow), fresh liquid surface water (lakes and rivers), subsurface (ground) water, biological water (in plants and animals) and atmospheric water (clouds and water vapor).
Dave Nelson wrote:
And don't forget the earth was smaller back then. We have been accumulating tons of matter per day from the sun alone.
Insignificant.

[9] Earth accumulates about 40,000 metric tons (40,000,000 kg) of space dust a year. http://gizmodo.com/5882517/did-you-know-that-...

Let's ignore the fact that the mass lost every day from atmospheric loss exceeds the mass of space dust accumulating onto the earth by a factor of two (same link)

[10] The mass of the earth is about 5.97E24 kg.
http://www.universetoday.com/47217/

[11] Raising that amount by a percent of a percent of a percent would be an increase of 1 part per million, or about 6E18 kg of matter.

[12] At 40E6 kg of space dust per year, it would take 6/40E(18-6) years to do that - or about 150 billion years, which is 22 times longer than the earth has existed.

Sorry, Dave, but the bible story is only believable to a faith based thinker unencumbered by evidence or reason.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181806 Oct 29, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>It has bee estimated that it would take 3.5 billion cubic MILES of EXTRA water to cover the planet to the extent that is portrayed in the bible. Where all this extra water came from and where it went is usually avoided by the Godbots. I do believe that Dave thinks the planet flew through a giant celestial rain cloud, of course that doesn't account for where all that water disappeared to.
No problem if you have enough faith.

Fundamentalist Kent Hovind, aka "Dr. Dino," currently in slam for conviction on 58 counts of tax fraud, had a hare brained hypothesis that the earth was/is encased in a hollow sphere of water (sometimes called an ice canopy) that supplied the water.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181807 Oct 29, 2013
LCNlin wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler seemed also to agree with you
ďAs far as we are concerned, weíve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 394
ďThere is something very unhealthy about Christianity.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 418
hitler was catholic and inspired by your cult. Every nazi belt had "In god we trust written forged on it"

Explain that away you lying little sh*t.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181808 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
For the third time the Bible doesnít list a date of Noahís flood. Genealogy is listed.
Despite what you believe is impossible. The entire Earth must have been covered up in water at one time because there are marine fossils on mountain tops. Iím not claiming that was from Noahís flood. Iím just saying water covered the earth at one time or most of it.
Even at the top of the Grand Canyonís South Rim is evidence of marine fossils.
I have stated many times that Noahís flood was massive and encompassed thousands of square miles. We see floods like that even today in the United States. Did it cover the entire global earth? Probably not but it did cover the earth where people lived. So the Earth as they knew it flooded.
Now why would you try to make us believe that a flood could not happen in Noahís day when floods happen today in our time?
Yours and Dave's are not the kinds of arguments that can convince those outside of the faith. They are the kinds of arguments used to convince oneself from within the faith. That is, they can satisfy a mind that wants to believe, but not one that doesn't have a stake in believing.

Apologetics are intended for believers with a nagging doubt or two, not for convincing skeptics. They have the opposite effect on skeptics. What these arguments show outsiders is your will to believe.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181809 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Iím not a seaman but I do know wood can swell when it is wet.
And many of ship sailed the ocean made entirely of wood.
Even most theists doubt the ark story. Animals eat animals, but your cult probably explains this away by claiming the devil is in the details.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181810 Oct 29, 2013
LCNlin wrote:
Hitler Quotes
ďÖthe only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 61
ďItís Christianity thatís the liar. Itís in perpetual conflict with itself.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 61
ďThere is something very unhealthy about Christianity.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 418
I'm not sure that Hitler is the best guy to quote on such matters. Plenty of nice guys have said the same thing.

“Moozy with the Golden Heart”

Since: Jul 09

watamooze@yahoo.com

#181811 Oct 29, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
On a mountaintop far away, a snowflake balances precariously on a rock.
Soon, a brisk wind nudges that snowflake off the rock.
It tumbles down, collects several more snowflakes and a few specks of dust.
Soon, a dirty ball of snow and dust is rolling down the mountainside.
As it rolls, it collects small twigs, larger rocks, pine cones and an old shoe left by a hiker ten years ago.
Now, growing in size, it collects broken branches from trees and more snow by the truckload.
Most of the way down the mountain, it slams into a very large bolder, smashing into a thousand pieces.
Those pieces are hurtling in the air at a high volocity toward the vally below.
On the vally slope, a squirrel sits munching on a nut.
The squirrel is hit and killed by the shoe left on the mountainside by a hiker ten years ago.
So it is OBVIOUS, God wanted that squirrel dead when he put the snowflake on the top of the mountain.
It is a perfectly ordered world.
What is "volocity", Apple Killer??? <;o)

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181813 Oct 29, 2013
Watamoozy wrote:
<quoted text>
What is "volocity", Apple Killer??? <;o)
No proof of god failure.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#181814 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The crust is less than 1/100th of the radius of the earth. Within that crust and the mantle is a lot of water.
The average elevation of land on a global scale is a few feet above sea level.
Your global warming claims massive flooding just from melting glaciers.
There is roughly 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 litres of water on earth comprising fresh water (rivers, lakes etc), sea water, water frozen in ice caps, underground water in aquifers, clouds, humidity etc. It is logical to assume given the influx of debris from space that amount has slightly increased since the times of mythology.

The mantle and much of the crust is too hot to contain water. The thermal gradient of earth is around 25 degrees C per km. Obviously something you have not considered from the factual standpoint.

The low average elevation you specify of course means that a considerable volume of additional water would be required to cover the highest mountain, this statement is obviously something else you have not really though about. My estimate of 80 times more water needed than exists is based on average land elevation being about 1/3 of maximum height. I.e. Volume of earth at sea level subtracted from the volume of earth from 15 cubits (30 ft) above Everest the result arbitrarily divided by 2/3 to give 100,800,000,000,000,000,000,00 0 litres. But of course if you want to say a tenth or twentieth for a lower average elevation then that number only gets considerably bigger and even more implausible.

Not mine, everyone can have a bit. Massive flooding is happening locally but NOT on a world scale to mountain depth.

Note : For Noahís flood to have happened as described in the babble then over 9 metres of water per hour would have to gall on every square millimetre on earth for a sustained 40 days.

Remember water is self levelling.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#181815 Oct 29, 2013
LCNlin wrote:
Atheist religion talking points re: Hitler
Hitler was catholic Ė You are free to slope you shoulders and pretend otherwise but we are not going to let you forget it.

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