Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#180354
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Chemical Plant Superintendent- 32 years
Was also the “On Scene Incident Commander,” for the 500 acre complex.
Over 50 specialty chemicals- The list is too long to try and list. Some were even considered at one time as Chemical Weapons. I help destroy 5 tons of the US Army Stockpile of “CG” in the early 80’s. Also was a police & fire dispatcher for a short duration. Now retired.
I'm retired as well - four years now.

Were you attached to Ft. Detrick in Maryland? I was stationed there in the seventies, although my work was unrelated to chemical and germ warfare.
Eagle 12 wrote:
Yes, I do owe you an apology. And I apologize but not as an act of weakness but of character.
I would never consider an apology an act of weakness. Of course it's a matter of character.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#180355
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
RUBBISH
My God Can Beat Up Your God (Richard Bamford)
Do you know his name?
Sure you do.
He talks to you every day.
You could not live a normal life without him.
You believe in him, whether you like it or not.
Unless you abandon him completely, you cannot deny he exists.
My god is a more personal god than yours can ever be, for if you have enough sense to understand these words, my god lives within you.
He lives within us all, to some degree.
A heartbreaking few cannot understand him, but this is not their fault.
The real tragedy is the multitudes who ignore much of his counsel, particularly when he questions your god too deeply.
My god has been around longer than your god. He was here before the many other gods that preceded your god. Though you will likely scoff at the notion, my god was the father of your god, as he was to all gods.
But that was long ago when he was young and not yet sure of himself. Though many of your god's followers try to hold him down, my god grows stronger and more independent each day.
When your god expelled us from paradise for eating an apple, my god taught us to grow our own fruit.
• When your god forbade knowledge, demanding we live in ignorance, my god created books.
• When your god smote cities like a tantrum-prone child, my god helped to rebuild them.
• When your god insisted the world was flat, my god showed his followers it was round, to their peril at the hands of your god's followers.
• While your god watched in silence as children sickened and died, my god created medicines to make them well.
• When your god winked and nodded at slavery, my god argued passionately against it.
• While your god represses half the human race, my god considers woman to be the equal of man.
• When your god only helps those who help themselves, my god rolls up his sleeves and actually does help until your god decides to join in, and then steals all the credit.
• When your god inspired great buildings and great art, my god made them possible.
• While your god says we are all born sinners, tainted before we even draw breath, my god says we are all born innocent; a clean slate with limitless potential.
• While your god offers dubious allusions of an afterlife, my god provides for us here in this life.
• While your god makes amazing promises, but offers not a shred of proof, my god performs amazing deeds, and the proof is there to be seen by all.
• While your god demands blind faith and obsequious obedience, my god encourages questions, even about himself.
• When your god says "Thou shalt not," my god says "You can do anything."
My god is reason.
He does more in a day than your god will ever do.
My God just grant mankind free will. The lack of perfection you note, is just man's blame for his own failures. I get the idea atheist life with their parents longer than the average person. they would never cooperate with survey, and they don't respect it as science, unless of course it favors their thought.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#180356
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
Atheism doesn’t bring with it morality does it?
No, it doesn't. Atheism is not a moral theory. It's the absense of a god belief.

Since: Jun 13

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#180357
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>Excuse me but I also think you guys are insane.
1) after so long you all sound the same. I give you credit for being more mellow than most.
2) just about all of you post with hidden location, and I don't count dark locations as real locations.
3) You are anti-religious
4) You talk about what you claim to have no believe in and frequently.
5) you guys religiously never permit someone to have the last word.

Note #4 is a real biggie.
1. It's the same with religious folk. That tends to happen.
2. I don't care to tell you where I am from. I just haven't taken the time to add my location.
3. I am not personally anti-religious.
4. We respond to people and the subject that is being discussed. You will find that many people visit sites for homosexuality being used by people who are not homosexual, but feel the need to give their opinion or argue. That is the joys of topix. If there were no christians on these threads to discuss or argue about god, then odds are you would see more science discussions or whatever else is chosen to discuss. People will also share there thoughts on the matter if they choose to, but that is what Topix was built for.
5. I do not fight for the last word. I respond to things, but when i am having a conversation (an actual conversation), I feel there is no need for that kind of childishness. Now if there are insults being hurled then I'm in it to win it ;-)
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180358
Oct 17, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
But what is love according to Christianity? It's highest form involves excruciating torture and death for no apparent reason.
One need not ask what is love if one has experienced love.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180359
Oct 17, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it doesn't. Atheism is not a moral theory. It's the absense of a god belief.
So where do Atheist get morality?
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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Oct 17, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm retired as well - four years now.
Were you attached to Ft. Detrick in Maryland? I was stationed there in the seventies, although my work was unrelated to chemical and germ warfare.
<quoted text>
I would never consider an apology an act of weakness. Of course it's a matter of character.
No I was never at Ft Detrick. But the US Army contracted with my company to destroy 5 tons of “CG” gas. We were experts in that arena and had the process facilities to handle it.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180361
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK.
But don't do it again.
Thank you Counsellor.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180362
Oct 17, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
No need. No offense was taken. But thank you anyway.
[Tipping Hat]
Imhotep

United States

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#180363
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet another canned off the shelf answer from an assembly line Atheist.
THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT?

Find ONE statement that isn't true in that canned response. You cannot.

“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”

You removed all doubt long ago.

Keyser Söze is searching for you.
He has a marvelous little chapel in the moonlight.

Yawn Zzzz
Imhotep

United States

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#180364
Oct 17, 2013
 

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chipped nails wrote:
<quoted text>
They also kill those who don't disbelieve like they do. Throughout history, the number of people killed by atheists is almost incalculable.

We can see you are still engaged in your courageous battle with literacy and mental health.

What is easy to calculate is your imaginary hero... god and her/it/his lust for killing.

Come to think of it... A perfect God wouldn't make a mistake with his first creation! But she did!

No atheist on the planet can top this effort!

Thy God killed...
The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors.(Genesis 7:23)

Run along now > pray the rosary > play with your crucifix necklace > light a candle > tithe.

Know GOD?
"Know" nothing.
No GOD?
No Problem!
Imhotep

United States

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#180365
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
So where do Atheist get morality?
Common Sense, Reason. Logic, Truth, and Observable Facts.

Certainly... not from your book!

The Bible is supposedly the guide to morality, inspired by a deity.

Why is any of that awful stuff included in such a supposedly wonderful document?

Why does anyone have to make excuses for the filth in it?

The "context" argument does not hold.

There is no moral context into which murdering babies, for example, may be inserted.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180366
Oct 17, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Does that mean that spiderman is real because a book says so? I guess that means that Victor Stinger's book is also true, GOD THE FAILED HYPOTHESIS.....How science proves that God does not exist.
What makes the bible more valid that Doctor Stinger's book?
I'm presuming you know the definition of circular reasoning right? "God is real because it says so in the bible" How do you know the bible is true? "Because God says so." And around and around we go!!!!
The bible also says you are supposed to stone your children to death when they misbehave, have you done so?
Do you keep slaves? The bible says you should.
In my family history prior to the civil war. We had family members on both sides of the issue. One of my distant grandfathers stood up on a bench and denounced slavery as being wrong before the war broke out. That was in Nacogdoches Texas. Some in the crowd wanted to hang him.

I have never partaken in modern day slavery (prostitution). Nor will I ever do so. It is ongoing and thriving today. It is wrong and illegal. Many times involving children being prostituted out. Those caught need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Don’t you agree?

Now I have heard of Spiderman but he was not one of my favorite childhood superheroes. I always liked Superman. Because he could fly and stop bullets.

The bible is more than just a single book but a list of 66 books. It contains military engagements that are still taught in war colleges today. History, love stories, poetry, crimes, corruption, conspiracies, spy’s, adultery, slavery, laws, guidelines, conflict resolution, and how people lived thousands of years ago. Even listed in the bible is the first example of a fire “back draft which involved fatalities.”

Other information in the bible is the proper method in washing hands. This method is still in use today by Medical Professionals worldwide. This procedure was documented thousands of years before men knew of micro bacteria. Another procedure listed is the tying off with a rope of one during egress in a dangerous or potentially dangerous environment with a bell. That procedure is in practice today as men go inside confined spaces of vessels, tanks, reactors to do inspections and repairs. That procedure is listed in the bible Doctor.

Now these are just a few examples that I have listed.

Now how many books does this Victor Stinger have? Time will tell if his books are still in circulation 2000 years later. I seriously doubt it. And does any of his material cover such a wide range of subjects and material the Bible covers. Have any of Mr. Stinger’s books ever been on the best sellers list?

Since: Jun 13

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#180367
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see how you could call that not being tolerant. People lie about God, and when it portrays God as not being perfect it is a false statement. To make up a God and have him jealous, is your problem. It does not change God.
Well for one...there are many different gods being actively believed in. You yourself stated that you believe in even man made gods, but yet now you are claiming that there is only one perfect God.... and the reason I call you intolerant is because you want everyone else to "respect" other's beliefs no matter what they may be, but you do not respect mine and many others.

For two, It actually states in the Christian bible that god is a jealous god. Now you can twist and turn that however you feel like, but that's what the book states.

Lastly, you are intolerant because you think you are correct in your beliefs an you tell me that I am wrong, and sick and twisted and immoral (I'm including you into the group that says these things because you seem to think its ok to add me to the group that says things that you don't like, even if I have never said them), yet you think that it's not ok for me to tell you that I think your ideas are nutty. As you like to say...you know yourself, and I know myself, and if that's so then it would make you much more tolerant if you would not continue to put words in my my mouth or to tell me that you have all the answers because you sir do not, and if you did then you would have to claim to be your treasured god himself.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180368
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Common Sense, Reason. Logic, Truth, and Observable Facts.
Certainly... not from your book!
The Bible is supposedly the guide to morality, inspired by a deity.
Why is any of that awful stuff included in such a supposedly wonderful document?
Why does anyone have to make excuses for the filth in it?
The "context" argument does not hold.
There is no moral context into which murdering babies, for example, may be inserted.
Interesting, but the Bible never told me to take other people’s property and throw it away because I don’t agree with it. But it does say,“thou shalt not steal.” That means take something without permission. You admitted taking property that wasn’t yours and throwing it away every chance you had.

I don’t believe in murdering babies by the way. I have had two and raised them into very successful adults. And when you talk about murdering babies I hope you are including those healthy babies aborted late term in modern society.

But murdering babies before birth probably doesn’t fit your definition of murder or does it? It seems if you were pro life you would have condemn this practice that is ongoing today. But you have said nothing which makes me think you think it’s ok to kill babies.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180369
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT?
Find ONE statement that isn't true in that canned response. You cannot.
“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”
You removed all doubt long ago.
Keyser Söze is searching for you.
He has a marvelous little chapel in the moonlight.
Yawn Zzzz
Certainly the truth can hurt sometimes but so does distortion and lies.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#180370
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is an ideology that is chosen by choice. It’s not a default so many of you proclaim. A infant is neutral and has not developed the mental cognizance to make that kind of decision. But what the heck, Atheist believe in a world of make believe so go ahead believe as you wish.
"Atheists beleive in a world of make believe" REALLY? In a far away magical place you can live forever, visit Mom and Dad, talk to uncle Lew and aunt Blanch, you'll never be sick and happiness will be with you every moment, but if you don't follow the directions given by an invisible man who lives in the sky he will get angry with you and send you to another magical place where you have to be submerged in lakes of fire, for eternity. You have to follow his rules because you belong to him. He created you by scooping up a handful of dirt and blew on it and out popped a fully formed male, you are his relative. Yep Atheists believe in a make believe world..........LOL

Since: Jun 13

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#180372
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>Very interesting thing for you to say. Did you know many people consider it rude to ask someone, to prove their faith, after they have admitted, it's their faith? I would think this crowd is rude, but I also have observed a very bad reading comprehension amongst this group. That in my opinion, gives them a bye from being called rude.
When someone asks you a question, it is polite to answer a question when it is asked, to the best of your ability. I do not ask for proof in general because I know that you have none. I also do not claim to have all of the answers an my only question to you would be "why do you not admit that you may not be correct in the things that you claim to be fact?" I can read and comprehend just fine.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#180373
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I do believe in an overall God, as well as man made ones. I believe God is not in human form, and is an extraordinary mass of energy. If we came across it, we wouldn't be able to near it, maybe there would be debate on if that mass is God. Most likely people would right that off because they prefer to think of God in a human form. Your peaceful and loving thoughts could make holy water, your thoughts could also power energy and create a spirit. As noted I consider atheism a very bad choice, but you do know yourself and I doubt you made the choice, for any other reason besides you don't have a soul.
You don't believe in God but you are no different from any other Theist in that your belief are totally unsupported. You believe in something you have simply made up, something you have imagined, and then are foolish enough to speak about it as something real. You believe in this energy "thing" for no good reason other than it somehow makes you feel good. You apparently don't care whether or not your beliefs are true, they just feel good. So don't try and distance yourself from those who believe in God, you are right there with them, and your version is just as twisted and unsupported as there's.

You are right on one point here, this person does not have a soul, and neither does any one else on the face of the planet. You have been asked by me and countless others to provide your evidence for this soul thing, and NEVER have you even ventured to offer your proof. You've twisted and turned, said we could never comprehend, even saying that learning about a soul could be dangerous. In the end you're just another crazy moonbat, with a completely worthless idea.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#180374
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, but the Bible never told me to take other people’s property and throw it away because I don’t agree with it. But it does say,“thou shalt not steal.” That means take something without permission. You admitted taking property that wasn’t yours and throwing it away every chance you had.
I don’t believe in murdering babies by the way. I have had two and raised them into very successful adults. And when you talk about murdering babies I hope you are including those healthy babies aborted late term in modern society.
But murdering babies before birth probably doesn’t fit your definition of murder or does it? It seems if you were pro life you would have condemn this practice that is ongoing today. But you have said nothing which makes me think you think it’s ok to kill babies.
Why do you think it's wrong to kill babies, your God has absolutely no problem doing it? You do in fact worship a baby killer. Your God also murdered late term babies, aborting unborn fetuses, and he had absolutely no problem doing so.

There is a very nice correlation here between slavery and abortions. The southern slave owners had every right to believe that having slaves was perfectly all right as it was sanctioned by God almighty himself. Now since your God has no problem murdering babies and unborn fetuses, then you should have no problem with late term abortions, as they to are sanctioned by God almighty.

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