Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247810 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#180291 Oct 16, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignored, until you learn to write for yourself.
Another theist canned answer, recycled material.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180292 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
"Science isn't something that you need to believe in to accept, like astrology or Jesus. Science is definitely real."
Most sciences true but there are two exceptions. Mans Evolution and Cosmology.
And by the most amazing of coincidences, they are happen to be the two that contradict your bible's creation story. What are the odds that the same types of people using the same methods as the ones that developed the science that you do accept would get it wrong in the most important of areas?

Incidentally, if you want to defend Creationism from scientific progress, you'll want to begin attacking abiogenesis and plate tectonics as well, and probably archeology, too.
Eagle 12 wrote:
If man evolutionary science and cosmology is real why is there so many artist conceptions in it’s practice?
How are artist's conceptions a refutation of the theory of biological evolution?
Eagle 12 wrote:
That doesn’t sound like real science to me but imagination of the artist. You can’t read or go through a evolutionary course without being bombarded with artist conceptions. Why? The evidence is not there but the imagination is.
Yes, drawings not made of things that you are looking at are the imagination. Were you aware that there is other evidence apart from drawings? Are you disregarding that and attacking the theory based on drawings?
Eagle 12 wrote:
If the evidence of mans evolution is so solid why does evolution have a enforcement arm? It’s the only science that come with thugs to beat up and cast out non believers. The baseball bats and beatings are definitely real. All the scientist are forced to proclaim it is real or they will be fired. That doesn’t sound like solid scientific evidence to me.
Really? An enforcement arm? Do you have drawings to support those allegations?

Michael Behe still has his job. How did the enforcement arm let that happen?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180293 Oct 17, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It's true with you. You wrote, "Ribs are the only part of a human that will regenerate. If a portion of a rib is cut away. It grows back new."
That's wrong. Did you know that the liver regenerates itself if there is healthy liver tissue to do so? Apparently not.
Furthermore, there is almost no data to support that ribs regenerate in humans, at least not in the sense that you implied. What little there is suggests that under special circumstances, periosteal osteoblasts can sometimes generate new bone and marrow. Resected ribs are generally removed with their periostea, so this has no clinical significance after removal of ribs as occurs with some times of thoracic surgery.
It looks like you're getting your science from Christian apologetics sources, like Answers In Genesis. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/...
Let me give you a hint: if you can only find it in a Christian apologetics source, they made it up. There is nothing true about the world known only to Christians. If it is true, it can be found in a secular source.
Eagle 12 wrote:
Off the shelf canned Atheist answer.
That is incorrect. I wrote that answer myself. It was completely original. I doubt that you'll find my answer anywhere else on the Internet.

And what difference would it make if I copied a canned answer if it were a correct answer? Canned answers are perfect for frequently offered false claims.Don't you think that you should rebut the claim's content rather than its novelty?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180294 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
People are murdered by murders.
Yes, I know.

Do you know what a tautology is? That's one.

It's also irrelevant to your comment that it was ironic that an atheist killed another atheist, and my question asking you why you thought that that was ironic.

I'm starting to get the impression that it's going to be impossible to get you to cooperate in focused dialectic. I'm quite used to it. These discussions generally evolve through three phases, these types of apologetics arguments being the first. These are where you do what looks like debate, but use assorted evasive tactics tactics such as diversion and deflection. The irrelevant comment about an answer I gave being oft repeated as if that invalidated it falls into that category.

If you follow the usual pattern, I expect you to start making claims of faith in frustration next - how you believe what you believe, and nothing can change that.

Then will come the anger, where you attack my character and threaten me with hell.

Please try not to do that if that is something that you would do.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180295 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
There are lots of Medical Doctors that some how by the skin of the teeth were able to graduate medical school. The bottom dwellers, the forth and fifth string quarterbacks sort of speak. I know you claim to have been an “Ex” Medical Doctor. But I seriously doubt you were one of the “Real” Doctors. You know the one’s at the top of their class that go on to be professors in major teaching hospitals.
Why are my credentials relevant to you?
Eagle 12 wrote:
I worked in a scientific field for over 32 years. I learned there are Engineers and then there are real Engineers. The same goes for Scientist and Medical Doctors.
Were you a scientist or just work around them? Which kind? Were you trained or educated in science? Which science do you have expertise in?
Eagle 12 wrote:
You are outdated Doctor, the medical school you went to in the 60’s is obsolete as well as most of what you learned. If you are going to make claims that ribs don’t regenerate I would strongly suggest you enroll in medical school again. This time listen and don’t be staring at the legs of the student in the isle next to you.
Is this how you intend to defend your claims or rebut mine? You didn't even try to defend your claim about ribs being the only human tissue that regenerates or that removed ribs will grow back, and you changed mine to a much stronger and more generalized statement than the one I actually made.

Speaking of canned answers, I was correct that you got you argument about ribs out of Answers in Genesis, wasn't I? It was probably the exact link I cited:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/...

You simply ignore that.

Actually, you ignored the entire post and went right to attacking my education. Did you care to address any of the following:

Eagle wrote: "Ribs are the only part of a human that will regenerate. If a portion of a rib is cut away. It grows back new."

[1] IANS countered: "That's wrong. Did you know that the liver regenerates itself if there is healthy liver tissue to do so? Apparently not."

You were silent.

[2] IANS wrote: "there is almost no data to support that ribs regenerate in humans, at least not in the sense that you implied."

You had no comment.

[3] IANS wrote: "It looks like you're getting your science from Christian apologetics sources, like Answers In Genesis.

You remain silent.

[4] IANS wrote: "Let me give you a hint: if you can only find it in a Christian apologetics source, they made it up. There is nothing true about the world known only to Christians. If it is true, it can be found in a secular source."

And again no comment.

Can we assume that you have no argument with any of these comments, or that if you do, that you are unable to articulate it?

And shall we forgo any further pretense of debate and have you just jump into the phase where you frustratedly proclaim your faith and attack my character? You're already halfway there calling my alma mater obsolete, demeaning my education, and refusing to answer my questions or rebut my claims.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180296 Oct 17, 2013
IANS wrote: "Science isn't something that you need to believe in to accept, like astrology or Jesus. Science is definitely real."

Eagle rebutted: < crickets >

IANS wrote: "Speaking of Gestapo, evolution is the only science with its own Christian pseudoscience institution - the Discovery Institute - dedicated to trying to undermine it by promulgating intelligent design disinformation."

Eagle rebutted: < crickets >
Eagle 12 wrote:
Doctor, I love you Atheist like German Shepherd loves a chew toy. Ya’ll are just too much fun.
Can we call this phase 2 now? We seem to be past the pretense of debate. Maybe it's time for you to tell me about how secure you are in your faith, and about how bad atheists are.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180297 Oct 17, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Why is that ironic? Most Christians murdered in America are killed by other Christians.
Eagle 12 wrote:
according to your point of view all those killings in Chicago, are not turf wars and gang related?
I haven't expressed an opinion about murders in Chicago other than that like all other murders in America, most are done by Christians. Do you disagree? Almost everything done in America is mostly done by Christians. They're the majority.
Eagle 12 wrote:
These are upstanding Christians that go to church and sing a bit loud in the choir? Pay their tithes and contribute to the community, then at night go on killing sprees?
I don't know which killers do that. Does it matter? Is that part of the definition of a Christian?
Eagle 12 wrote:
That’s not what the FBI and the Chicago Police are saying and they are on the front lines in Chicago.
Why do you think you know anything about what the FBI and Chicago police are saying about the religious affiliation of the people murdering other people in America? And how would they know? Do the FBI or police collect and tabulate that data? If so, would you share it?
Eagle 12 wrote:
Your blind statement seems to be full of holes. Gang war holes I might cars in add.
My statement was correct, just like a statement that most cars in America are Christian, most people wearing Levis in America are Christian, most people that ate in an American McDonalds yesterday are Christian, and most Americans whose last name begins with the letter "L" are Christians. Do you doubt any of those claims?
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#180298 Oct 17, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I haven't expressed an opinion about murders in Chicago other than that like all other murders in America, most are done by Christians. Do you disagree? Almost everything done in America is mostly done by Christians. They're the majority.
<quoted text>
I don't know which killers do that. Does it matter? Is that part of the definition of a Christian?
<quoted text>
Why do you think you know anything about what the FBI and Chicago police are saying about the religious affiliation of the people murdering other people in America? And how would they know? Do the FBI or police collect and tabulate that data? If so, would you share it?
<quoted text>
My statement was correct, just like a statement that most cars in America are Christian, most people wearing Levis in America are Christian, most people that ate in an American McDonalds yesterday are Christian, and most Americans whose last name begins with the letter "L" are Christians. Do you doubt any of those claims?
I see you're having fun with this Godbot also!
He/she has no response.
'Fact allergic reality challenged' is the perfect definition for The broken eagle.

Geewhiz Doc, I spend most of my day driving from point a to point B. The people this part of the USA are really friendly. Very refreshing here in the mountains, and the government opened up the big national Park here. According to locals they were losing approximately $24 million a day in revenue.

I wish I had the time to drive around it. Eye candy!

Ik denk dat je wel een goede baan met Nederlandse! Kudos!

No se puede razonar con aquellos a los que la razón es un desconocido o con los impulsados &#8203;&#8203;por el miedo y la ignorancia.

I am flying out on the 22nd. There should not be any more company trips until 2014.

Merry Christmas to you and family if I do not get back prior to that time.
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#180299 Oct 17, 2013
~~~~~\\\||
~~~~(@@)~~
~~oOo--O--oOo~~
CRUZ:“THE DREAM OF KEEPING POOR PEOPLE FROM SEEING A DOCTOR MUST NEVER DIE”

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Acknowledging that the government shutdown was coming to an end, an emotional Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) took to the Senate floor today to make an impassioned speech, telling his colleagues,“The dream of keeping poor people from seeing a doctor must never die.”

His eyes welling up with tears, Sen. Cruz said,“I embarked on this crusade with a simple goal: to keep affordable health care out of the reach of ordinary, hard-working Americans. And while this battle was lost, that dream—that precious, cherished dream—will live on.”

Reflecting on the government shutdown and near-default that almost touched off a global financial apocalypse, Sen. Cruz said,“We’ll give it another try in a few weeks.”

Sen. Cruz’s closest ally, Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) also spoke reverently of the shutdown, calling it “the most expensive Civil War reënactment in history.”

“Unfortunately, once again, the wrong side won,” he said.

Over in the House of Representatives, Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) congratulated his colleagues on the deal to resolve the shutdown, telling reporters,“This proves that when we work together, we can come up with a totally unsatisfactory solution to a completely unnecessary crisis.”

But the last word belonged to Sen. Cruz, who ended his emotional speech with a quiet benediction:“Goodnight stars. Goodnight air. Goodnight noises everywhere.”

--

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Adding his voice to the eleventh-hour debate about the government shutdown, Senator Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) today proposed reopening just enough of the government to hold new hearings on Benghazi.

“Across this great nation of ours, people are suffering,” he told Fox News’s Megyn Kelly.“Suffering, Megyn, because they still don’t know what really happened in Benghazi.”

Noting that the government shutdown had furloughed investigators who could be looking into Benghazi, he said,“If there’s something in our government more worthy of funding than that, I can’t think of it.”

Senator Paul said he knew that he would draw the ire of fellow Republicans by suggesting that the government be partially reopened, but added,“Sometimes, you have to put politics aside when there is something more important at stake, and I think any reasonable person would agree that there is nothing more important than getting to the bottom of Benghazi.”

“For the two weeks of this shutdown, the American people have had no new information about Benghazi,” he said.“It’s time to stop the madness.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#180300 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I got it, you think you’re a genius. Go tell yourself how smart you are. You need constant reassuring.
Oh, kitten - one hardly needs to be a genius to win an argument with you...

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#180301 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Another Atheist canned answer, recycled material.
And by "canned answer, recycled material" you mean "actual quotes from the bible"

How dare people use actual bible quotes!

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#180302 Oct 17, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
And by "canned answer, recycled material" you mean "actual quotes from the bible"
How dare people use actual bible quotes!
Christians do not believe the Bible.
They only believe what they are told the Bible says.
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#180303 Oct 17, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
And by "canned answer, recycled material" you mean "actual quotes from the bible"
How dare people use actual bible quotes!
The Bible is presented as the ultimate guide to moral principles, high standards and ethical living.

The so-called History Channel is now featuring shows about David and Goliath and Noah's Ark, and it presents these biblical yarns as history.

Even the Discovery Channel is bending to the pressure.

So, as long as society is flinging the Bible at us, and our politicians are quoting from it relentlessly, and Christians smugly and conspicuously carry the book with them everywhere, and Televangelists wave it dramatically, declaring it to be the "world's best-selling book for a reason,"

It may be the world's best seller, but not one in a thousand knows what's really in it.

The Bible is nothing to be proud of, which makes a Christian or Jewish defense of it all the more ironic.

Imagine a 100-page book of photos. 50 of them are hard core pornography, including bestiality, S & M, and child pornography. The other 50 pages are exquisite photos of sunsets, hummingbirds, waterfalls and daffodils.

This is the Pearl-In-The-Dung Syndrome. And the Bible suffers from it. If I must plow through piles of dung to uncover a pearl here and there, I refuse to do it.
Imhotep

Charlotte, NC

#180304 Oct 17, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians do not believe the Bible.
They only believe what they are told the Bible says.
Indeed. ;)

"You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough." ~Aldous Huxley
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#180305 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe as you wish my good Doctor. I still love you in my heart.
I don't believe it for a second, but this is what your "good book" claims. So apparently you DO believe it. I would love to know what could possibly make anyone worship a child murdering deity, a deity who according to your own holy book has murdered millions of his most prized creations. I still find such devotion to such evil as shocking!!!
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#180306 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I might add I have touched the moon, or a small portion of it at NASA.
Some things are not proven by science at least not yet.
How does one prove they are in love?
Can science prove love?
Love is not something that is tangible is it?
Love is beyond science my friend.
Yet many of us feel love for someone else or our children. It’s something in the inner being of our heart. The same goes with God.
LOVE is a part of reality. LOVE is a human emotion and can be detected by science just as any other emotion.

Of course LOVE is tangible, you can see how love manifests itself between parents and children, between people, even between people and animals, dogs and cats especially. A parent sacrificing their lives to save their child is a tangible evidence of LOVE.

I repeat, science is the ONLY way in determining whether or not something is true. Do you know of another methodology is making that determination?

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#180307 Oct 17, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a bit scattere3d their, lovey.
May I point out you are the one that refers to the Big Bang as the origin and no need for a deity?
I understand science, and I have posted links to the hot singularity at least 3 or 4 times. If and when NASA comes back online after the shutdown you can check their saying the same thing.
Sweetheart, the stuff I have been proposing is straight from mainstream science, just a different perspective. As I have said a few times, and now again, you don't understand what you "know". You learned the words, not what they represent. That wiouldn;t be bad, but then you get on here and bitch at anyone remotely theistic. You have an emotional issue with religion, particularly Christianity, NOT an intellectual and rational one.
Because I refer to the BB as the origin is simply a matter of agreement with the norm, with something that the average joe can relate to, something they have heard of and something that average fundy rants about. It was something universally big and it was a colossal bang (the echoes can still be heard). However there is no definition of what the BB actually was, what created it etc and of course we have seen how the mere mention of different theory sends you into scatty, illogical and ignorant denial. You appear so be saying because we do not know what it was then it must have been a singularity, in exactly the same way as you say we don’t know so goddidit by magic.

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/what-...

Because you have posted links does not make it so. The very nature of a singularity means that all one can do is theorise.

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/quant...

What you have been proposing is from old science. Note that I know what I know, unfortunately what you believe you know tends to be confused and fragmented bits of science that make sense to you and that you seem to think is the whole.

Honey the reason I “bitch”(your word) at theism is a direct result of the mockery, abuse, sexism and personality insults that theist have poured on me – including you. You don’t like payback then there is a simple answer, don’t invite it.

I find it amusing that godbots can lie and cheat and abuse and mock to their hearts content but any (and I mean ANY) reciprocation causes an outbreak of whinging self pity.

Actually I have an intellectual problem with some christians in that I have zero tolerance for deliberate ignorance. This in no way means I have a problem with christianity, in exactly the same way as many christian don’t have a problem with my beliefs. However just like a christian (or believer in any other thought experiment), I will defend my beliefs as best I can based on what I know of the there arguments, usually based on the O and NT. If you see using facts to dispel the myth that is christianity then fine, your view is, after all your view.

Because you do not like the fact that others should be given the same privileges of freedom as you do is not my problem

Freedom of expression under you rules is not freedom but dictatorship.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#180308 Oct 17, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I said hat and you said bat. I say car and you say bar.
I said bold and you say sold.
"Houston we have a problem."
Wrong, bat bar and sold were not in my statement – so you lie, I win…

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#180309 Oct 17, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If he wasn't a god - that is, if he didn't do miracles or rise from the dead - then he was just another nice guy who didn't say or do anything remarkable.

What do you think makes Jesus a better man than say my neighbor, who is also a nice guy that would also likely tell you that the Golden Rule is a good rule to live by?

Did Jesus say anything worthwhile that was original?

You could have built the same religion around billions of similar nice guys in history including my neighbor, especially if you could control the stories told about them.
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Your questions just tell me you have issues.
Your evasive answer tells me that you have nothing more substantial than your faith to offer us regarding these very valid questions:

IANS worte: "What do you think makes Jesus a better man than say my neighbor, who is also a nice guy that would also likely tell you that the Golden Rule is a good rule to live by?"

Robert Steven replied: < crickets chirping >

IANS worte: "Did Jesus say anything worthwhile that was original?"

Robert Steven replied: < pin dropping >

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#180310 Oct 17, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>LOVE is a part of reality. LOVE is a human emotion and can be detected by science just as any other emotion.
Of course LOVE is tangible, you can see how love manifests itself between parents and children, between people, even between people and animals, dogs and cats especially. A parent sacrificing their lives to save their child is a tangible evidence of LOVE.
I repeat, science is the ONLY way in determining whether or not something is true. Do you know of another methodology is making that determination?
You use the term science so loosely. There is something to be said for examining some things, but that is in the strictly physical realm. Like component parts of a car or plant or living creature. You can see how something was put together. If you are really lucky you can directly observe for what purpose such was, and even where the parts came from.

However...

In regards to our existence you aren't going to be that lucky. Our history is a trash heap we have been picking through. There is a lot missed, and a lot of focus on misleading found items. And then, of course, you have the intangible elements of our existence and how it came to be. Lost many years ago and still lost.

On an existential basis, the proof of the pudding is what survives to tell the stories.

As far as mankind and his civilizations go, religious ones have survived the ages, usually evolving. Atheism has died with every generation.

Religion has spawned atheists forever. Atheists are always a reaction to the status quo. There is not one civilization that started out "atheist". And their social movements are always shortlived.

Is that true or not?

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