Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Full story: Webbunny tumblelog

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“Don't be so dichotomous.”

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#180125
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
I have found all the proof I personally need of God for myself.
Did you find that proof before you started to believe?

What was the proof?

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#180126
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
&#8213; Søren Kierkegaard
wow...this, folks, is how you know that someone has no answers.
Eagle 12

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#180127
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you find that proof before you started to believe?
What was the proof?
My proof for myself is based on my experience over several years. What matters to me is that I believe and have experienced God for myself. If you want to know for yourself then get busy and start experiencing God for yourself.
Imhotep

Crossville, TN

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#180128
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
“Atheist of the Year,” Teresa MacBain was recently fired from her newly-appointed post with Harvard University's Humanist Communities nonprofit after it was discovered she had falsified her resume.
Teresa a recent convert of Atheism was a former minister living a double life. Then she came out of the closet sort of speak and openly declared her Atheism. But what does lying on a resume say about her as a person?
Is it ok for the “Atheist of the Year,” an ambassador to Atheism to purposely lie to one of the highest education institutions in the United States?
Which brings to question what are the morals that Atheism as a whole embrace?
&#65532;
&#65532;
&#65532;
Your question answered, Eagle. ;)

• Belief in Deity
Not considered important. Most Humanists are atheists or agnostics.

• Incarnations
Same as above.

• Origin of Universe and Life
The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life.

• After Death
An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.

• Why Evil?
No concept of “evil.” Reasons for wrongdoing are explored through scientific methods, e.g. through study of sociology, psychology, criminology.

• Salvation
No concept of afterlife or spiritual liberation or salvation. Realizing ones personal potential and working for the betterment of humanity through ethical consciousness and social works are considered paramount, but from a naturalistic rather than supernatural standpoint.

• Undeserved Suffering
No spiritual reasons but rather a matter of human vulnerability to misfortune, illness, and victimization.

• Contemporary Issues
The American Humanist Association endorses elective abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and nonviolence, and environmental protection.

And... Mother Teresa

A amazing story about a decades-long crisis of faith in the life of Agnes Bojaxhiu, better known as Mother Teresa.

A newly released biography, Come Be My Light, consists of numerous letters Teresa exchanged with her church superiors.

These letters reveal that for the last fifty years of her life, she felt as if God had withdrawn his presence from her and would not respond to her prayers. Unable to feel any hint of God’s existence –“neither in her heart or in the eucharist”, according to Brian Kolodiejchuk, the book’s editor – she lived in a permanent state of silent misery and despair. Some excerpts from Teresa’s letters reveal just how tormented she was:

I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One.— Alone … Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony. So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul.— I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/...
Eagle 12

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#180129
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
wow...this, folks, is how you know that someone has no answers.
So you don’t like being humiliated?

Then just say so.
Eagle 12

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#180130
Oct 15, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You're quite the expert.
You're too kind.[tipping hat]
Eagle 12

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#180131
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Your question answered, Eagle. ;)
• Belief in Deity
Not considered important. Most Humanists are atheists or agnostics.
• Incarnations
Same as above.
• Origin of Universe and Life
The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life.
• After Death
An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.
• Why Evil?
No concept of “evil.” Reasons for wrongdoing are explored through scientific methods, e.g. through study of sociology, psychology, criminology.
• Salvation
No concept of afterlife or spiritual liberation or salvation. Realizing ones personal potential and working for the betterment of humanity through ethical consciousness and social works are considered paramount, but from a naturalistic rather than supernatural standpoint.
• Undeserved Suffering
No spiritual reasons but rather a matter of human vulnerability to misfortune, illness, and victimization.
• Contemporary Issues
The American Humanist Association endorses elective abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and nonviolence, and environmental protection.
And... Mother Teresa
A amazing story about a decades-long crisis of faith in the life of Agnes Bojaxhiu, better known as Mother Teresa.
A newly released biography, Come Be My Light, consists of numerous letters Teresa exchanged with her church superiors.
These letters reveal that for the last fifty years of her life, she felt as if God had withdrawn his presence from her and would not respond to her prayers. Unable to feel any hint of God’s existence –“neither in her heart or in the eucharist”, according to Brian Kolodiejchuk, the book’s editor – she lived in a permanent state of silent misery and despair. Some excerpts from Teresa’s letters reveal just how tormented she was:
I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One.— Alone … Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony. So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul.— I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/...
You said you don’t believe in God.

But you also said you are not an Atheist.

Just to enlighten you, Atheist don’t believe in God.

(“An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.”)

Understood, that you have not crossed over from life to death. That means you are alive and with us today.

(No concept of “evil.”)

Also understood, no one has stuck a shotgun in your face and asked for your hard earned money. If they ever do, just tell them you believe in the scientific method and through study of sociology, psychology, criminology you will define what is evil.

But somehow I don’t think you will be able to get all that out before you experience the afterlife and spiritual existence.
Eagle 12

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#180132
Oct 15, 2013
 

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I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't matter the religion or lack there of....many people do stupid things everyday. That is common sense, so I think it's safe to say that it's not the religion or lack there of that needs to be studied, it's the person as a whole ;-)
Would that apply to Hitler?
Imhotep

Townsend, TN

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#180133
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for being so very honest in your answers.
But you just told me you don’t believe in God. Previously you said you were not an Atheist.
Do you understand these are contradictory statements?
How can you not be an Atheist and not believe in God?
consider that ALL babies are atheists.

However, there is no getting around the simple truth of it: all babies are atheists. How could it be otherwise?
In fact, all children are atheists until they reach an age where they can truly understand religious doctrine, which will mean well into their teens.

Children can mimic their parents in prayer, for example, by closing their eyes and clasping their hands together, and repeating some words that they don’t understand. Of course even toddler-praying can’t happen until a child reaches the age of speech.

Beyond praying though, there is so much more to consider when parents proclaim that their little ones are Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim and so on.

To say that someone is "Christian" is to say that the someone understands:
(1) the story of the life of Jesus as told in the Bible;
(2) the concepts of heaven and hell;
(3) the concept of "faith" in an invisible entity;
(4) sin;
(5) forgiveness;
(6) the Triune God and
(7) communion.

With all this complicated theology in mind, picture a 5-month-old infant contentedly filling her diaper, and try to convince anyone that she understands all of the above.

If she does not, she is not a Christian. I don’t care how much water you sprinkle on her head, or how many magical words you recite over her as she howls in a church, she doesn’t have the foggiest idea about any of it.

Which means she cannot be a Christian.
The identical analogy applies to all religions.

"Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."
~Richard Dawkins

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#180134
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Would that apply to Hitler?
Godwin's law, Eagle.
Imhotep

Townsend, TN

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#180135
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you know God wanted mankind to enjoy their spouses and told them to go and replenish the Earth?
That means have children, raise children, then have grandchildren, then great grandchildren, then great great grandchildren.
I have 2 children, both college grads. 3 grandsons.

DID YOU KNOW CATEGORY

A lot a Christians seem absolutely positive that Jesus is, of course, unique and the first of his kind. They are unaware that the myth of their Christ is similar to several other god-men myths.

Here are some of those other mythical god-men that Jesus, the Christian Messiah, apparently shares roots with.

Zoroaster/Zarathustra

--Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.”
--He was baptized in a river.
--In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom.
--He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil.
--He began his ministry at age 30.
--Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.”
--He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man.
--He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse.
--He had a sacred cup or grail.
--He was slain.
--His religion had a eucharist.
--He was the “Word made flesh.”
--Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 CE and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,”[Word]“Redeemer,”“Savi or” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said,“He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”

Furthermore, the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, and the Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced.

Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier Pagan mystery religions.

Study HORUS ;)
Imhotep

Townsend, TN

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#180136
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You said you don’t believe in God.
But you also said you are not an Atheist.
Just to enlighten you, Atheist don’t believe in God.
(“An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.”)
Understood, that you have not crossed over from life to death. That means you are alive and with us today.
(No concept of “evil.”)
Also understood, no one has stuck a shotgun in your face and asked for your hard earned money. If they ever do, just tell them you believe in the scientific method and through study of sociology, psychology, criminology you will define what is evil.
But somehow I don’t think you will be able to get all that out before you experience the afterlife and spiritual existence.
Remember, INFIDEL, thou shall share thy imagined paradise with the same men that flew into history on 9/11. 72 virgins each!

Consider the much used Ad Infinitum Atheist Quote

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Anon
Imhotep

Crossville, TN

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#180137
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for being so very honest in your answers.
But you just told me you don’t believe in God. Previously you said you were not an Atheist.
Do you understand these are contradictory statements?
How can you not be an Atheist and not believe in God?
Easy!
I see zero evidence of ANY Gods.

I am an equal opportunity Secular humanist.

However I am open to suggestions - IF ANY organized religion can answer these two simple questions...

A) Provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way that religions other than yours cannot do.

B) Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with theirs.

Until this time, and it will be an eternity - you are only one of many religious cult members - each claiming more or less the same immortality or enlightenment as others.

On a lighter note and my twisted sense of humor

Satan fears me! ;)

He shudders, soils his suit, rams his horns into a Christian sinner and laments...

"Imhotep's awake! Grrr...
That irreligious bastard!

I just do not understand it!

Every evil I heap upon him slides off like pimples on an Italian!

Goddamnit, he pisses me off.

Allah forgiving my temper.

Constantly mocking my existence with common sense and those damned FACTS.

I begged, in fact pleaded with my alter ego - Jesus, for a lightning bolt or something...

Jesus can't even light Imhotep's joint!

How dare this venomous human taunt me!

http://m.youtube.com/watch...

Sacrilege! Liar! I won.

< Everything is so green>

Now I'm hungry and everything here is burnt to 'hell in a hand basket':(

What in the Hell is a evil demon to do... in the face of reality?

One day... I'll promise...
I'll kick his ass... provided he believes that I exist."
Imhotep

Crossville, TN

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#180138
Oct 15, 2013
 
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
;)
I am very busy at work. Travel today!
Nice Dutch!
Hola buen doctor me estoy divirtiendo a costa de los demás, como de costumbre!

They are working me to death I drive 200 miles every day. The scenery here is pure eye candy.

The blue ridge parkway was 400 miles of beauty mountains up to 6053 feet.

YES, The tech arrived late to work!
I blamed it on the US government shutdown!

Lol!

I don't know how you feel doc, but it worries me more than that the US government might start back up again! ;)

it hasn't worked properly for at least 45 years - it's time for to shutdown!
Imhotep

Crossville, TN

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#180139
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Would that apply to Hitler?
Godwin's law Evoked!
shame on you Eagle ;)

youths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin 's_law

Godwin’s law

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis.

Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerem form.

The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses.

It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions, the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or speeches.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180140
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
consider that ALL babies are atheists.
However, there is no getting around the simple truth of it: all babies are atheists. How could it be otherwise?
In fact, all children are atheists until they reach an age where they can truly understand religious doctrine, which will mean well into their teens.
Children can mimic their parents in prayer, for example, by closing their eyes and clasping their hands together, and repeating some words that they don’t understand. Of course even toddler-praying can’t happen until a child reaches the age of speech.
Beyond praying though, there is so much more to consider when parents proclaim that their little ones are Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim and so on.
To say that someone is "Christian" is to say that the someone understands:
(1) the story of the life of Jesus as told in the Bible;
(2) the concepts of heaven and hell;
(3) the concept of "faith" in an invisible entity;
(4) sin;
(5) forgiveness;
(6) the Triune God and
(7) communion.
With all this complicated theology in mind, picture a 5-month-old infant contentedly filling her diaper, and try to convince anyone that she understands all of the above.
If she does not, she is not a Christian. I don’t care how much water you sprinkle on her head, or how many magical words you recite over her as she howls in a church, she doesn’t have the foggiest idea about any of it.
Which means she cannot be a Christian.
The identical analogy applies to all religions.
"Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."
~Richard Dawkins
So you are saying in order to be an Atheist you need no maturity, no intelligence, no intellect, no reasoning skills, no comprehension, no aptitude, no education, no learning, no reading and writing skills, no understanding, no capacity to understand.

This analogy cracks me up. That means a pile of horse sh*t is an Atheist because it meets the same criteria. You don’t have to have sh*t for brains to be an Atheist. A freaking tree stump qualifies to be an Atheist.

That analogy always cracks me up.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180141
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Godwin's law Evoked!
shame on you Eagle ;)
youths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin 's_law
Godwin’s law
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis.
Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerem form.
The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses.
It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions, the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or speeches.
This Godwin's law is not apart of my National, State or local law. That means in short it’s not applicable.

Imaginary laws don’t count in the real world. N/A

Since: Apr 09

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#180142
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don’t like being humiliated?
Then just say so.
shhhh, kitten, shhhh....you've already admitted you've lost.

Since: Apr 09

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#180143
Oct 15, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My proof for myself is based on my experience over several years. What matters to me is that I believe and have experienced God for myself. If you want to know for yourself then get busy and start experiencing God for yourself.
In other words, you have no proof.

yeah, we know, you've admitted it several times now.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#180144
Oct 15, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy!
I see zero evidence of ANY Gods.
I am an equal opportunity Secular humanist.
However I am open to suggestions - IF ANY organized religion can answer these two simple questions...
A) Provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way that religions other than yours cannot do.
B) Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with theirs.
Until this time, and it will be an eternity - you are only one of many religious cult members - each claiming more or less the same immortality or enlightenment as others.
On a lighter note and my twisted sense of humor
Satan fears me! ;)
He shudders, soils his suit, rams his horns into a Christian sinner and laments...
"Imhotep's awake! Grrr...
That irreligious bastard!
I just do not understand it!
Every evil I heap upon him slides off like pimples on an Italian!
Goddamnit, he pisses me off.
Allah forgiving my temper.
Constantly mocking my existence with common sense and those damned FACTS.
I begged, in fact pleaded with my alter ego - Jesus, for a lightning bolt or something...
Jesus can't even light Imhotep's joint!
How dare this venomous human taunt me!
http://m.youtube.com/watch...
Sacrilege! Liar! I won.
< Everything is so green>
Now I'm hungry and everything here is burnt to 'hell in a hand basket':(
What in the Hell is a evil demon to do... in the face of reality?
One day... I'll promise...
I'll kick his ass... provided he believes that I exist."
"Easy!"
"I see zero evidence of ANY Gods."

That would mean you're blind and an Atheist. I only believe in one God by the way.

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