Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258473 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#179728 Oct 12, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Gift?
Nonsense!
An often quoted, and very effective line for producing converts to the cult of Jesus(Christianity) is as follows:
What is so hard about accepting a FREE gift of salvation from the Lord Jesus Christ?
It doesn't require anything on your part, but to accept it.
If this gift truly required nothing as the claim says, then you wouldn't have to accept it to be saved.
This line of reasoning is used repeatedly by those trolling for converts in schools, offices, on TV, and just about anywhere else you find an aggressive member of the cult of Jesus.
It's the same nonsense that is spewed and taught in Bible study classrooms in most churches.
It sounds wonderful doesn't it?
Everybody loves free gifts.
The problem is that the gift of salvation as taught in the Bible is anything but free.
It first requires that you perform a work. That work is believing Jesus is your Savior and that only he can serve as your intermediary with God.
Of course it also means that you accept all the baggage that goes along with that.
It means you accept as truth that this "God" will punish people for the "sin" of disbelief(Mark 16:16, John 16:9, John 3:18, John 3:36, Heb 3:12, 1 John 2:22), it requires that you worship a God who will provide infinite punishment for finite sins, and it requires that you accept a God with the behavior of a rather manipulative, power hungry, petty tyrant.
It means you must abandon your mind to save your soul.
You must confess Jesus is your Lord and worship him as such.
That act is a "work" in itself. Faith is also a work.
Make no mistake concerning the actual nature of this so-called "free" gift.
Salvation is exchanged for worship and it's nothing more than a holy barter system where you say the magic words and you are saved. On the surface it's cheap, easy, and painless. It appeals to anyone who doesn't want to be burdened with thinking for themselves, but it's in no sense "free".
This form of holy fire insurance is nothing more than false advertising and should be treated with the same regard one would have when he opens a box of Cracker Jacks and digs out the cheap trinket that came as a "free" gift when you purchased the box it came in.
http://agnosticreview.com/freegift.htm
You are mistaken on some of your assumptions there, particularly regarding the role of Jesus. You are letting the ideology of some sects of Christianity shade your thinking. You are stereotyping a major portion of the world population.

There is a translation and interpretation issue with that believeth in me and only way to heaven part of the scriptures. He essentially said if you believe in what he said about a benevolent God and there is an afterlife, then you can also have one. The I am the way, the truth, and the life are just derivations based on that. He was relating a vision and understanding, and evidently even performed some miracles from this link he developed. You could believe him or not. Up to you. It was the literalist thinkers later that turned him into a god and an idol. They changed the meaning and intents of the words. This has been understood for a long time. That is why you have the red words. Draw your own conclusions based upon your own understandings.

With words, literal thinkers go astray. Those scriptures are no different than any other ancient writings, including Plato or Egyptian records of history. You can't really know what was said because you lack the concepts of the times and the meanings of words of the times, that have been translated into whole different languages and contexts.

You have to read between the lines, and you have to have an understanding to comprehend and do such a thing.

This literalness leads to a lot of confusion and conflict, and thus disaffection. Cults and their proponents, including neo-atheism, play rope a dope with those disaffected.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179729 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mistaken on some of your assumptions there, particularly regarding the role of Jesus. You are letting the ideology of some sects of Christianity shade your thinking. You are stereotyping a major portion of the world population.
There is a translation and interpretation issue with that believeth in me and only way to heaven part of the scriptures. He essentially said if you believe in what he said about a benevolent God and there is an afterlife, then you can also have one. The I am the way, the truth, and the life are just derivations based on that. He was relating a vision and understanding, and evidently even performed some miracles from this link he developed. You could believe him or not. Up to you. It was the literalist thinkers later that turned him into a god and an idol. They changed the meaning and intents of the words. This has been understood for a long time. That is why you have the red words. Draw your own conclusions based upon your own understandings.
With words, literal thinkers go astray. Those scriptures are no different than any other ancient writings, including Plato or Egyptian records of history. You can't really know what was said because you lack the concepts of the times and the meanings of words of the times, that have been translated into whole different languages and contexts.
You have to read between the lines, and you have to have an understanding to comprehend and do such a thing.
This literalness leads to a lot of confusion and conflict, and thus disaffection. Cults and their proponents, including neo-atheism, play rope a dope with those disaffected.
Creationism is a cult full of spineless liars with no proof of god.

Isn't that right Dave?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179730 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>

You have to read between the lines,
ie: lie about god because you have no proof.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179731 Oct 12, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Bob we're dealing with eternity here, why are you so impatient over a couple thousand years?
Faith is a mental illness, and believers reject treatment, choosing to abuse the world with unproven filth instead of fixing themselves, and learning how to be honest decent citizens of planet earth.
Imhotep

Dillsboro, NC

#179732 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mistaken on some of your assumptions there, particularly regarding the role of Jesus. You are letting the ideology of some sects of Christianity shade your thinking. You are stereotyping a major portion of the world population.

This literalness leads to a lot of confusion and conflict, and thus disaffection. Cults and their proponents, including neo-atheism, play rope a dope with those disaffected.
Christian theology credits Satan with amazing powers over humans, sometimes known as "Satanic Curses."

His sole motivation is to ensnare and capture our
immortal souls so he can watch us scream and writhe in agony as we roast in the blazing inferno known as Hell, forever. Nice guy. But nice or not, if
this is true, then Satan must be granted the status of a deity. He is not just another strange guy in a red suit. He is a supernatural entity with powers equal to or greater than God's.

This must be the case or else the supposedly all-merciful God would not "allow" Satan to direct his dastardly deeds toward us-we who are God's beloved creations.

This brings up the enigma known as "The Question of Evil."

It has never been solved, and never can be. It has plagued theologians of all faiths for centuries. The reason for this is that their own definitions
of God have backed them into an impossible corner.

They have created their own conundrum by insisting that God is simultaneously omniscient, omni benevolent and omnipotent.

Theologians must agree that, by definition, an omniscient God would have known that ultimately evil would stalk the world he was creating.

There can be no doubt that evil is here; so God must have foreseen it.

Theologians must likewise agree that an omni benevolent God would never inflict pain and suffering on his own purportedly beloved human creations.

And finally, they must agree that an omnipotent God would have had the option of creating a world with no evil in it.

Nothing in the entire universe could have prevented him from doing whatever he wanted, since he is omnipotent.

So, how did evil arrive on the scene?

Blaming humanity's "free will" won't work.

An all-knowing God would know exactly where that "free will" would lead-to evil.

So if he didn't want evil to exist, he shouldn't have created free will.

;)
Your turn!

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#179733 Oct 12, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationism is a cult full of spineless liars with no proof of god.
Isn't that right Dave?
Belief you are a magical being that popped in out of nowhere is a sign of mental illness.

Turkey brain, if even we, as products of this origination, can identify a beginning of the process of our evolution from such a magic poof, then we have identified a higher force in creative action.

Nothing starts unless something starts it. Nothing can "explode" into a total void and then coalesce into what we call matter. It has to be a bottled up environment for that to happen. Your material world is manufactured. Unfortunately, it appears yours is missing some parts, or has some cold solder joints preventing designed connections and circuitry from being completed.

That makes you a dummy instead of a really animated creature.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179734 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Belief you are a magical being that popped in out of nowhere is a sign of mental illness.
Turkey brain, if even we, as products of this origination, can identify a beginning of the process of our evolution from such a magic poof, then we have identified a higher force in creative action.
Nothing starts unless something starts it. Nothing can "explode" into a total void and then coalesce into what we call matter. It has to be a bottled up environment for that to happen. Your material world is manufactured. Unfortunately, it appears yours is missing some parts, or has some cold solder joints preventing designed connections and circuitry from being completed.
That makes you a dummy instead of a really animated creature.
The mental illness of faith is no excuse for lack of evidence.

Prove the god your cult sent you here to promote with evidence and you qualify for rational debate.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179735 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Belief you are a magical being that popped in out of nowhere is a sign of mental illness.
Turkey brain, if even we, as products of this origination, can identify a beginning of the process of our evolution from such a magic poof, then we have identified a higher force in creative action.
Nothing starts unless something starts it. Nothing can "explode" into a total void and then coalesce into what we call matter. It has to be a bottled up environment for that to happen. Your material world is manufactured. Unfortunately, it appears yours is missing some parts, or has some cold solder joints preventing designed connections and circuitry from being completed.
That makes you a dummy instead of a really animated creature.
All of these ignorant religious interpretations are invalid until you can prove them.

You have had thousands of years and your cult has failed. Give up your mental illness and learn how to be honest.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#179736 Oct 12, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
All of these ignorant religious interpretations are invalid until you can prove them.
You have had thousands of years and your cult has failed. Give up your mental illness and learn how to be honest.
You are very entertaining. Impersonating an intellectual and the mass of humanity, and as a personage worthy of any effort to try and convince of anything. You do it well.

A God given talent you have?
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#179737 Oct 12, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Awe, you omitted this...
"If any man come to me, and HATE not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".--Luke 14:26
NO SALE!
Hatred is not for me.
"Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains."
R G Ingersoll
Thank you, this gives us a teaching opportunity for the unlearned and the ignorant infidel mindset.

To the followers of Christ the word “hate” is another term for setting priorities. Christ comes first in our hearts and everyone else comes latter. Remembering one of the ten commandments,“To honor thy Father and Mother,” supports this thought.

In Jesus own example he never “hated” his mother or his step father.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.
For a background on the use of extreme and hyperbolic language in the Bible, I direct the reader first to my foundational essay on this subject. Abraham Rihbany (The Syrian Christ, 98f) points to the use of "hate" in the Bible as an example of linguistic extreme in an Eastern culture. There is no word, he notes, for "like" in the Arabic tongue. "...[T]o us Orientals the only word which can express any cordial inclination of approval is 'love'." The word is used even of casual acquaintances. Extreme language is used to express even moderate relationships.
Luke 14:26 falls into a category of "extreme language," the language of absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment, indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:
And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
Here, "hated" is clearly used synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all.(See also Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)
Now here is another example from Jesus, Luke 16:13:
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Such extremes of feeling would be atypical, but the extremes are not meant to be taken literally; the point is that one master will get more dedicated labor than the other.
Now let's move into some secular works with the same sort of hyperbolic language. http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.htm...

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Los Angeles, CA

#179738 Oct 12, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your view on the pressure on the Washington Redskins to change their name?
My view on the pressure, or on whether a name change is appropriate?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179739 Oct 12, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very entertaining. Impersonating an intellectual and the mass of humanity, and as a personage worthy of any effort to try and convince of anything. You do it well.
A God given talent you have?
I don't hate you, I hate the faith based mental illness you suffer from. When you realise that lying about god isn't very smart or clever, you'll become atheist.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#179740 Oct 12, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, this gives us a teaching opportunity for the unlearned and the ignorant infidel mindset.
To the followers of Christ the word “hate” is another term for setting priorities. Christ comes first in our hearts and everyone else comes latter. Remembering one of the ten commandments,“To honor thy Father and Mother,” supports this thought.
In Jesus own example he never “hated” his mother or his step father.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.
For a background on the use of extreme and hyperbolic language in the Bible, I direct the reader first to my foundational essay on this subject. Abraham Rihbany (The Syrian Christ, 98f) points to the use of "hate" in the Bible as an example of linguistic extreme in an Eastern culture. There is no word, he notes, for "like" in the Arabic tongue. "...[T]o us Orientals the only word which can express any cordial inclination of approval is 'love'." The word is used even of casual acquaintances. Extreme language is used to express even moderate relationships.
Luke 14:26 falls into a category of "extreme language," the language of absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment, indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:
And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
Here, "hated" is clearly used synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all.(See also Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)
Now here is another example from Jesus, Luke 16:13:
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Such extremes of feeling would be atypical, but the extremes are not meant to be taken literally; the point is that one master will get more dedicated labor than the other.
Now let's move into some secular works with the same sort of hyperbolic language. http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.htm...
Creationists - quick to talk, slow to prove.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#179741 Oct 12, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't hate you, I hate the faith based mental illness you suffer from. When you realise that lying about god isn't very smart or clever, you'll become atheist.
Numbnuts, I was an atheist since 50 years ago insofar as Bible God goes. In the last 3 years being on here and watching idots such as yourself I turned agnostic with theistic leanings due to the technology of this physcial existence. There is no "faith" based belief whatsover. That is something you possess, not me.

I can tie all religions into a technological basis for being created. However, seeing the technology employed combined with modern physics leaves me with the conclusion we are machines, and not the lucky magically created thingies you see us as. Accidental gods of the universe. This is even after a death experience.

You are a stupid, pigheaded individual with emotional issues, desperately clinging to an absolute denial of something larger than yourself is what is really running your game, You are the other side of the fundie coin. Give it up, you ain't smart enough to be a god, nor is mankind. Glorified temporary robots with delusions of grandeur.

You are a crippled robot dependent on others to carry you on into whatever comes next. Failed product unless you can make some connections.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#179742 Oct 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not energy--that is magic bullshyt. So right at the beginning you start with the bullsht.
Proof of this "magic"? No?
The rest of your bull is dismissed unread.
Yesterday's magic is todays science. Until you have all the answers there will be magic. Bob I all ready know your comprehension skills will fail to understand that statement.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#179743 Oct 12, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I'm looking for just a bit more clarification here.
1.) Is there something or someone guiding this energy? Something or someone must guide this energy into a human body.
2.) If this energy is physically a part of the human body why can't it be detected by neuroscience?
3.) So it ONLY enters pregnant women? Can it enter a man? Do you think that someone having a dream validates your theory on souls?
4.) Who gets to decide which of us gets a soul? Someone has to left out since there is not enough energy for all intelligent beings? What if the people who do everything that is required to get a soul, but there is simply NOT enough energy to go around? Thanks for your answers
As previously stated, if you are interested, there are books written by Buddhist and New Age Authors. I don't think you have what it takes to read them. Just as I find some stuff you read to be boring, or not exact.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#179744 Oct 12, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Sub-human... seriously???? lol
Yes, previously here I posted that I do find it possible that for the purpose of good for The Universe, that it is possible we are evolving into extinction. It is the way of nature.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#179745 Oct 12, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
With all due respect, that's a judgment that I'll make myself. My definition of Christian may vary from yours. Mine is an operational definition. I don't really care what you believe, just how you behave.
Good rebuttal, by the way.
<quoted text>
You didn't learn much from the Bush years, did you?
The difference between you and I is, I accept you for your word in regards to your choice of religion, beliefs or faith. As I have mentioned if your sort were to gain control, various theories would not e tolerated in a public forum as China, The former Soviet Union and North Korea has proven.

Your actual religious views does resemble an ice cream lover that insist the only flavors of ice cream are vanilla and chocolate. The Baskin Robbins is still out there, but you call Butter Pecan and other flavors vanilla, insisting Chocolate is the only sort to eat, and Baskin Robbins is a hideous place.

In a way you give Christian Fundamentalist more power than they would have without you. They do rally around your efforts.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#179746 Oct 12, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You think you know my political agenda after a half dozen posts over 24 hours, none political? I didn't know I had a political agenda. What do you think it is?
What's your political agenda, and how does it differ from mine?
The answers to your questions will vary in accordance to the ambitious person that gains control. Without the moral reflections religions offer, there will be no controlling the corruption of the wealthy abusing the less fortunate. The power of the populist would go unchallenged, and it won't have a moral code.

The Atheist here slay me with this idea, that there would no longer be positions that adults would not be able to exploit youths. You just won't hear about them because the media would not be permitted to report all. Atheist as anti-religion would have safe guards that would control the media, as it does in China.

To answer your question or statement, no I did not like George Bush, either one, but I would unquestionable vote for either of them over any atheist. Your own mind is not a free society, as I previously posted you only regard two possibilities of thoughts amongst the common masses. I see no need to give your sort a try out.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#179747 Oct 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
My view on the pressure, or on whether a name change is appropriate?
The issue of a name change and those applying pressure to do so.

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