Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177658 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> In a world without God you have no objective reference point to judge ancient cultures in far away places. Why was slavery objectively wrong for the ancients?
We GET it: you are just FINE with slavery.

You are seriously immoral.

In fact?

I AM MORE MORAL THAN YOUR GOD IS:

For **I** would do anything in my power to prevent the rape of young girls.

YOUR GOD?

Demands that they must **marry** their rapist!

Uggg.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#177659 Sep 19, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
We GET it: you are just FINE with slavery.
Wrong again Quaalude Bob.
You are seriously immoral.
Agreed. Things are getting better.
I AM MORE MORAL THAN YOUR GOD IS:
For **I** would do anything in my power to prevent the rape of young girls.
That is a crock. Sell all you have and donate to some crisis shelter. That would be a start. Otherwise you are a liar. Rape is the result of man going his own way. Rape and abusive forms of slavery is abuse of power. Mistreatment of the poor is abuse of power. Not helping people who need it is neglect.
YOUR GOD?
Demands that they must **marry** their rapist!
Uggg.
Not all that uncommon in ancient cultures. It seems you cannot get past your 21st century presumptions and look at things dispassionately. Look at Esther. In many ways she despised her pagan King hubby. She became queen by replacing the former because she refused to pose naked to all his guests. A strip tease i suppose. Not unreasonable in our culture. In that culture it was next to an act of treason. This makes room for Esther to replace who had to forfeit her virginity to a vile pagan king. Here is her prayer.

''Prayer of Esther. 12b Queen Esther, seized with mortal anguish, fled to the Lord for refuge. 13Taking off her splendid garments, she put on garments of distress and mourning. In place of her precious ointments she covered her head with dung and ashes. She afflicted her body severely and in place of her festive adornments, her tangled hair covered her.

14Then she prayed to the Lord, the God of Israel, saying:“My Lord, you alone are our King. Help me, who am alone and have no help but you, 15for I am taking my life in my hand.c 16From birth, I have heard among my people that you, Lord, chose Israel from among all nations, and our ancestors from among all their forebears, as a lasting inheritance, and that you fulfilled all your promises to them.d 17But now we have sinned in your sight, and you have delivered us into the hands of our enemies, 18because we worshiped their gods. You are just, O Lord. 19But now they are not satisfied with our bitter servitude, but have sworn an oath to their idols 20to do away with the decree you have pronounced, to destroy your inheritance, to close the mouths of those who praise you, to extinguish the glory of your house and your altar, 21to open the mouths of the nations to acclaim their worthless gods, and to extol a mortal king forever.

22“Lord, do not relinquish your scepter to those who are nothing. Do not let our foes gloat over our ruin, but turn their own counsel against them and make an example of the one who began this against us. 23Be mindful of us, Lord. Make yourself known in the time of our distress and give me courage, King of gods and Ruler of every power. 24Put in my mouth persuasive words in the presence of the lion, and turn his heart to hatred for our enemy, so that he and his co-conspirators may perish. 25Save us by your power, and help me, who am alone and have no one but you, Lord.

26“You know all things. You know that I hate the pomp of the lawless, and abhor the bed of the uncircumcised or of any foreigner. 27You know that I am under constraint, that I abhor the sign of grandeur that rests on my head when I appear in public. I abhor it like a polluted rag, and do not wear it in private. 28I, your servant, have never eaten at the table of Haman, nor have I graced the banquet of the king or drunk the wine of libations.* 29From the day I was brought here till now, your servant has had no joy except in you, Lord, God of Abraham. 30O God, whose power is over all, hear the voice of those in despair. Save us from the power of the wicked, and deliver me from my fear.”

*[C:28] Wine of libations: offered in sacrifice to the gods.'' You just cannot seem to get over the fact the ancients were far different in practice than modern western culture.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#177660 Sep 19, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
So the god of the bible was... stupid?
Okay. That's pretty clear.
What’s pretty clear is one’s blinded personal prejudices.
Which is expressed through derision in hopes of supporting a very weak offense.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177661 Sep 19, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
In order for someone to be an atheist they simply have to not believe in a deity. How do you prove what someone believes? How could I prove to you that I do not believe in a deity in any other way other than me telling you that I don't?
Again, I am going to harp on the FACT they have a church.

let's look at the definition

a·the·ist
[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA

noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

----------

Origin:
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ist

Related forms
an·ti·a·the·ist, noun, adjective

pro·a·the·ist, noun, adjective

Can be confused: 1. agnostic, atheist (see synonym study at the current entry) ; 2. atheist, theist, deist.

Synonyms
Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary,© Random House, Inc. 2013.
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Collins

World English Dictionary

atheist (&#712;e&#618;&#95 2;&#618;&#716;&#61 8;st)

— n
1. a person who does not believe in God or gods

— adj
2. of or relating to atheists or atheism

athe'istic

— adj

athe'istical

— adj

athe'istically

— adv

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
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Etymonline

Word Origin & History

atheist

1570s, from Fr. athéiste (16c.), from Gk. atheos "to deny the gods, godless," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see Thea). A slightly earlier form is represented by atheonism (1530s) which is perhaps from It. atheo "atheist."


Online Etymology Dictionary,© 2010 Douglas Harper
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LOOK IT'S WITHOUT GOD, NOT WITHOUT RELIGION.

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“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177662 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong again Quaalude Bob.
<quoted text> Agreed. Things are getting better.
<quoted text> That is a crock. Sell all you have and donate to some crisis shelter. That would be a start. Otherwise you are a liar. Rape is the result of man going his own way. Rape and abusive forms of slavery is abuse of power. Mistreatment of the poor is abuse of power. Not helping people who need it is neglect.
YOUR GOD?
<quoted text> Not all that uncommon in ancient cultures. It seems you cannot get past your 21st century presumptions and look at things dispassionately. Look at Esther. In many ways she despised her pagan King hubby. She became queen by replacing the former because she refused to pose naked to all his guests. A strip tease i suppose. Not unreasonable in our culture. In that culture it was next to an act of treason. This makes room for Esther to replace who had to forfeit her virginity to a vile pagan king. Here is her prayer.
''Prayer of Esther. 12b Queen Esther, seized with mortal anguish, fled to the Lord for refuge. 13Taking off her splendid garments, she put on garments of distress and mourning. In place of her precious ointments she covered her head with dung and ashes. She afflicted her body severely and in place of her festive adornments, her tangled hair covered her.
14Then she prayed to the Lord, the God of Israel, saying:“My Lord, you alone are our King. Help me, who am alone and have no help but you, 15for I am taking my life in my hand.c 16From birth, I have heard among my people that you, Lord, chose Israel from among all nations, and our ancestors from among all their forebears, as a lasting inheritance, and that you fulfilled all your promises to them.d 17But now we have sinned in your sight, and you have delivered us into the hands of our enemies, 18because we worshiped their gods. You are just, O Lord. 19But now they are not satisfied with our bitter servitude, but have sworn an oath to their idols 20to do away with the decree you have pronounced, to destroy your inheritance, to close the mouths of those who praise you, to extinguish the glory of your house and your altar, 21to open the mouths of the nations to acclaim their worthless gods, and to extol a mortal king forever.
22“Lord, do not relinquish your scepter to those who are nothing. Do not let our foes gloat over our ruin, but turn their own counsel against them and make an example of the one who began this against us. 23Be mindful of us, Lord. Make yourself known in the time of our distress and give me courage, King of gods and Ruler of every power. 24Put in my mouth persuasive words in the presence of the lion, and turn his heart to hatred for our enemy, so that he and his co-conspirators may perish. 25Save us by your power, and help me, who am alone and have no one but you, Lord.
26“You know all things. You know that I hate the pomp of the lawless, and abhor the bed of the uncircumcised or of any foreigner. 27You know that I am under constraint, that I abhor the sign of grandeur that rests on my head when I appear in public. I abhor it like a polluted rag, and do not wear it in private. 28I, your servant, have never eaten at the table of Haman, nor have I graced the banquet of the king or drunk the wine of libations.* 29From the day I was brought here till now, your servant has had no joy except in you, Lord, God of Abraham. 30O God, whose power is over all, hear the voice of those in despair. Save us from the power of the wicked, and deliver me from my fear.”
*[C:28] Wine of libations: offered in sacrifice to the gods.'' You just cannot seem to get over the fact the ancients were far different in practice than modern western culture.
Be advice Bob at best has a 3rd grade reading comprehension. I am sorry but you are nuts for posting all this thinking he could understand it. I think you would have better luck teaching a baboon to drive a bicycle.
Spoiler alert. Bob will accuse you of lying.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177663 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong again Quaalude Bob.
<quoted text> Agreed. Things are getting better.
<quoted text> That is a crock. Sell all you have and donate to some crisis shelter. That would be a start. Otherwise you are a liar. Rape is the result of man going his own way. Rape and abusive forms of slavery is abuse of power. Mistreatment of the poor is abuse of power. Not helping people who need it is neglect.
YOUR GOD?
<quoted text> Not all that uncommon in ancient cultures. It seems you cannot get past your 21st century presumptions and look at things dispassionately. Look at Esther. In many ways she despised her pagan King hubby. She became queen by replacing the former because she refused to pose naked to all his guests. A strip tease i suppose. Not unreasonable in our culture. In that culture it was next to an act of treason. This makes room for Esther to replace who had to forfeit her virginity to a vile pagan king. Here is her prayer.
''Prayer of Esther. 12b Queen Esther, seized with mortal anguish, fled to the Lord for refuge. 13Taking off her splendid garments, she put on garments of distress and mourning. In place of her precious ointments she covered her head with dung and ashes. She afflicted her body severely and in place of her festive adornments, her tangled hair covered her.
14Then she prayed to the Lord, the God of Israel, saying:“My Lord, you alone are our King. Help me, who am alone and have no help but you, 15for I am taking my life in my hand.c 16From birth, I have heard among my people that you, Lord, chose Israel from among all nations, and our ancestors from among all their forebears, as a lasting inheritance, and that you fulfilled all your promises to them.d 17But now we have sinned in your sight, and you have delivered us into the hands of our enemies, 18because we worshiped their gods. You are just, O Lord. 19But now they are not satisfied with our bitter servitude, but have sworn an oath to their idols 20to do away with the decree you have pronounced, to destroy your inheritance, to close the mouths of those who praise you, to extinguish the glory of your house and your altar, 21to open the mouths of the nations to acclaim their worthless gods, and to extol a mortal king forever.
22“Lord, do not relinquish your scepter to those who are nothing. Do not let our foes gloat over our ruin, but turn their own counsel against them and make an example of the one who began this against us. 23Be mindful of us, Lord. Make yourself known in the time of our distress and give me courage, King of gods and Ruler of every power. 24Put in my mouth persuasive words in the presence of the lion, and turn his heart to hatred for our enemy, so that he and his co-conspirators may perish. 25Save us by your power, and help me, who am alone and have no one but you, Lord.
26“You know all things. You know that I hate the pomp of the lawless, and abhor the bed of the uncircumcised or of any foreigner. 27You know that I am under constraint, that I abhor the sign of grandeur that rests on my head when I appear in public. I abhor it like a polluted rag, and do not wear it in private. 28I, your servant, have never eaten at the table of Haman, nor have I graced the banquet of the king or drunk the wine of libations.* 29From the day I was brought here till now, your servant has had no joy except in you, Lord, God of Abraham. 30O God, whose power is over all, hear the voice of those in despair. Save us from the power of the wicked, and deliver me from my fear.”
*[C:28] Wine of libations: offered in sacrifice to the gods.'' You just cannot seem to get over the fact the ancients were far different in practice than modern western culture.
You do know Bob 's reading Comprehension is not good enough to understand this. Spoiler alert he will call this a lie.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#177664 Sep 19, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
It works for them my good Doctor and it works very well.
Actually it doesn't. Every year there are a great number of newborn calves that drown during birth The mother after giving birth must quickly swim under the infant and push them to the surface for their first breath. if the mother is to slow or fails to get squarely under the infant they drown. Piss poor design if you ask me. Sperm whales must hold their breath as they dive, sometimes a mile down, to feed on the giant squid that live at that depth. You do of course know that all whales are mammals and were NOT designed for an aquatic environment. They were land based animals that migrated to the sea, most likely for better feeding grounds and safety form predators. Evolution designed the Whale, not some fictitious God thing.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177665 Sep 19, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I am going to harp on the FACT they have a church.
let's look at the definition
Again... I will do the same. Lets look at the word church first. These definition are from Merriam Webster dictionary just so you know they are well known and well used :)

1church
noun \&#712;ch&#601;rch\

: a building that is used for Christian religious services
: religious services held in a church
: a particular Christian group

o.k...so we know that a church is used for mainly christians, but it is also a building used for religious services. Now lets look at the definition of religious.

re·li·gious
adjective \ri-&#712;li-j&#601;s\

: of or relating to religion
: believing in a god or a group of gods and following the rules of a religion
: very careful to do something whenever it can or should be done

Atheism doesn't fall under any of those definitions...Unless you try to claim that Atheism is a religion... in which case, lets take a look at religion.

re·li·gion
noun \ri-&#712;li-j&#601;n\

: the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

So Atheists do not have a belief, or an interest in any god or gods, so by definition Atheism is not a religion.

So do you still want to continue to harp on the FACT that they have a church, even though, Atheists are not religious, and they are most certainly not christian? I don't believe this fits anywhere.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177666 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong again Quaalude Bob.
If **you** are against slavery?

You are going against your god--who is just FINE with it.

Even your Jewsus(jesus) was fine with slavery.

*I* am more moral than your ugly, hateful god-- for I am against all forms of slavery.

Unlike your god.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177667 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> That is a crock. Sell all you have and donate to some crisis shelter. That would be a start. Otherwise you are a liar.
I **AM** more moral than your hideous godling.

I would **prevent** all rapes that I could.

Your god?

Makes the rape victim MARRY her rapist!

I am **far** more moral than your hideous monster-god.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177668 Sep 19, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What’s pretty clear is one’s blinded personal prejudices.
Why yes... yes you are. How nice: You noticed one of your many faults.
Eagle 12 wrote:
Which is expressed through derision in hopes of supporting a very weak offense.
Indeed; your ability to be convincing is ... very weak.

In 2000 years of trying? Your church is STILL less than 5% of the world (depending on whichever hideous bran of Genuine Christianity™ you have purchased-- they are not all equal you know).

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177669 Sep 19, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Be advice Bob at best has a 3rd grade reading comprehension.
I read better than you, moron.

But.

You are correct: I did not read past the first insult.

The rest was clearly garbage-- it would have to **improve** to rise to the lofty level of "lie".

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177670 Sep 19, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know Bob 's reading Comprehension is not good enough to understand this. Spoiler alert he will call this a lie.
I did not bother reading the wall-o-words.

It was likely garbage anyway. I stopped after the first insult.

How very Jesus of her, don'cha think?

The insults, I mean-- after all, Jesus was FAMOUS for his insults, right?

LOL!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177671 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong again Quaalude Bob.
How Jesus of you to try to insult me, here.

After all, Jesus was **famous** for his insults.

Right?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#177672 Sep 19, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
If **you** are against slavery?
You are going against your god--who is just FINE with it.
You are such a Biblical illiterate. You want to blame a God who you do not believe exists for slavery. It seems you cannot comprehend man brings that situation on himself.
Even your Jewsus(jesus) was fine with slavery.
*I* am more moral than your ugly, hateful god-- for I am against all forms of slavery.
Unlike your god.
The only thing you are good at is tooting your own horn. You come off a a sanctimonious illiterate. Get a real full time job Quaalude Bob. Learn to deal with people face to face on a regular basis. Be productive. Not a slug. Earn a paycheck.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#177673 Sep 19, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Actually it doesn't. Every year there are a great number of newborn calves that drown during birth The mother after giving birth must quickly swim under the infant and push them to the surface for their first breath. if the mother is to slow or fails to get squarely under the infant they drown. Piss poor design if you ask me. Sperm whales must hold their breath as they dive, sometimes a mile down, to feed on the giant squid that live at that depth. You do of course know that all whales are mammals and were NOT designed for an aquatic environment. They were land based animals that migrated to the sea, most likely for better feeding grounds and safety form predators. Evolution designed the Whale, not some fictitious God thing.
My good Doctor I shall take your word about some baby whales dying during birth. After all you are the resident ship captain. However I must point out that it has never been reported the number of whales are declining because of birthing issues.

The decline in the whale population has been due to mans involvement in harvesting them. Sure some may be lost due to the birth process. But all mammals loose some during birth.

I see the whale not as some flawed biological creature but a magnificent creature that’s awe inspiring. Thank God they were designed to come up for air because that let’s us view their majesty.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#177674 Sep 19, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Why yes... yes you are. How nice: You noticed one of your many faults.
<quoted text>
Indeed; your ability to be convincing is ... very weak.
In 2000 years of trying? Your church is STILL less than 5% of the world (depending on whichever hideous bran of Genuine Christianity™ you have purchased-- they are not all equal you know).
Bob, vanity is never a good defense. Yes there’s a lot of religions in the world and always has been since mankind began to roam the Earth. Like you I don’t believe in many of these religions.

As in life so is religion. For example I don’t have faith in every medical doctor, dentist, engineer, surgeon, and pilot to name a few. My next door neighbor in Houston was a retired B-52 pilot.

When he would make his yearly trip to California he would take the train, or drive himself. I asked him one day why he didn’t fly. He said not every pilot knows how to fly. He gave me the example of American Airlines Flight 587. Over adjustment of the rudder control resulted in the A300-600 airliner crashing in Queens and all souls on board were lost.

So painting everyone with a broad brush may work for you Bob but in the real world it just doesn’t work that way. In your profession there are some really good companies and technicians and some who can’t fix anything. So not everything is equal in life. It wouldn’t be fair to say all HVAC Techs are incompetent.

[Tipping hat] Talk with you later my good Atheist friend.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177675 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You are such a Biblical illiterate. You want to blame a God who you do not believe exists for slavery. It seems you cannot comprehend man brings that situation on himself.
<quoted text> The only thing you are good at is tooting your own horn. You come off a a sanctimonious illiterate. Get a real full time job Quaalude Bob. Learn to deal with people face to face on a regular basis. Be productive. Not a slug. Earn a paycheck.
The bible says that slavery is o.k. Slavery is not o.k. in modern times, but the bible does claim that "god" was fine with slavery, in fact he even gave rules on it.

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#177676 Sep 19, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You are such a Biblical illiterate. You want to blame a God who you do not believe exists for slavery. It seems you cannot comprehend man brings that situation on himself.
<quoted text> The only thing you are good at is tooting your own horn. You come off a a sanctimonious illiterate. Get a real full time job Quaalude Bob. Learn to deal with people face to face on a regular basis. Be productive. Not a slug. Earn a paycheck.
So, are the diseases of cancer, heart disease,and diabetes, man's fault? Show me where in your bible that god gives directions to avoid these and the many bacterial infections we are plagued with. What does your god suggest for bee sting and peanut allergies?

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#177677 Sep 19, 2013
RayOne wrote:
Atheists should claim Thursday night as their HighHoly day.
What about atheists is holy? Or, did you mean wholey?

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