Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258473 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176333 Sep 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny Dave, seriously.
We know the exact figure really , you can chill something to 2.7 degrees above absolute zero, at that temperature you cannot remove the remaining kinetic energy of the atoms or particles.
That is the ground state of energy the lowest reduction possible , because to do so you would have to defeat the uncertainty principle and all known quantum effects.
But when you get to the punchline, "We are designed." you lost a cohesive narrative. I mean it's like giving the directions for cooking rice. And the saying.......
Bring 3 cups water to boil, add 1 cup rice, add butter and salt,
let come to boil, stir rice once, reduce heat and cover.
The sky may turn purple.
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent.
That is most likely the best line on topix all day.
"The sky may turn purple"
<The Dave Nelson> "Damn him, I was gonna say that..."
What created the "uncertainty principle"? Other than man?

Other things I could go into about chilling and temperatures.

I've seen purple sky, and sickly green, and colors in between. Haven't you? It depends on the light cast upon what you are viewing. And how you perceive it. You can consider that a quantum effect.

Worshiping theories instead of that which gave rise to the creating of them blinds you. You are worshiping words, not reality.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Scar, when you gonna get back to interjecting some thought, wisdom and insight instead of taking potshots? The uncertainty principle appears to have reversed your sights and interfered with your trigger squeeze. Random firing neurons at pivotal points in your logic process are getting the best of you.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#176334 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If everything was so well defined and understood as you allege then we should be a lot further along the way, shouldn't we? All of those brains and they can't do a thing with it.
You are stuck in an academic/theoretical loop of thinking that has separated you from the more mechanical aspects of physics, meaning the ones technology works on, the stuff that actually works. It is called left field. If and when you get out of that field and out into the productive end of science you will understand that.
You aren't looking at nature, you are playing with math models and not comparing them to "reality".
Actually, of course, the math is *continually* tested by reality. That is sort of the whole goal of science. To test the ideas by actually looking at reality. And guess what? Your ideas have failed.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#176335 Sep 4, 2013
spugun wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the Discovery channel and History channels are pretty good on popular science and history, and more educational than most of what you get on the TV. I think they try to present information in a popular format but without any bias.
At best, they can be OK. At worst, they are pure myth. They are slightly better than most of what you get on TV because most of what you get on TV has absolutely no information content at all.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176336 Sep 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, we have learned a few things over the last 400 years since the rise of science. The vast majority of the kings of Europe were illiterate until fairly recently. There was no knowledge of physics, chemistry, medicine, anatomy, or many other basic subjects. Their view of the universe had the earth at the center with the sun, planets, and stars moving around it. They believed different rules applied above the moon (the heavens) than what applied below (the earth). They were steeped in mythology and superstition. Often, they didn't travel more than a few miles away from where they were born. Those that did were held in wonder.
So, yes, the ancients did understand less about how the universe works than we do now. Communication was much less reliable and home-spun stories were commonly taken as history. Even stories about Byzantium were highly distorted compared to the realities.
So, yes, the ancients were ignorant of science, history, geography, and their own geneology past a few generations.
"There was no knowledge of physics, chemistry, medicine, anatomy, or many other basic subjects. Their view of the universe had the earth at the center with the sun, planets, and stars moving around it. They believed different rules applied above the moon (the heavens) than what applied below (the earth)."

They only had several thousand years of observing nature and living experience like we do. The difference was they didn't have the centralized education system to "educate" everyone to the same belief. How unscientific.

Modern science still puts the earth at the center. All judgment of how the universe works is based upon how matter seems(uncertainty principle?) works here. Very scientific.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176337 Sep 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, of course, the math is *continually* tested by reality. That is sort of the whole goal of science. To test the ideas by actually looking at reality. And guess what? Your ideas have failed.
Tell me what ideas those are and how they failed.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#176340 Sep 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, of course, this is exactly the opposite of what happened historically. First, people assumed it was true.
Josephus, Philo, Jesus, the kings of Europe at least as far as Noah was concerned. They kept track of genealogy. It was important to them.
Then they really started looking into the details and found the conflicts between the books, between the legends and the books, and between the books and actual history.
Who is they? Did they have an agenda? Like they did with David dynasty? Legend then proven wrong? All this is evidence from history. Actual evidence and anyone can discount evidence if they have an agenda other than actual truth.
And fundamentalists
Which includes you. I remember your interpretation of the Genesis account where you say the ancients believed there was a bowl in the sky supported on pillars. You sleazed out of answering my question about the stars giving light. If there was a bowl why the stars? The bowl would have blocked the light. The interpretation is moronic but what can one expect from Topix atheists.
are hostile to the facts about how the Bible was constructed. How it was put together for politcal reasons and there was considerable controversy about many of the books that made it into scripture and also about many that didn't.
Conspiracy theories and garbage. Habve a nice day.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#176341 Sep 4, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> remember your interpretation of the Genesis account where you say the ancients believed there was a bowl in the sky supported on pillars.
That sounds to me like an accurate description of the bible view of the universe. The fact that the biblical writers believed in 6 day creation and a flat earth with a sky dome is >proof< that the the bible has no inspiration whatsoever.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176342 Sep 4, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Josephus, Philo, Jesus, the kings of Europe at least as far as Noah was concerned. They kept track of genealogy. It was important to them. <quoted text> Who is they? Did they have an agenda? Like they did with David dynasty? Legend then proven wrong? All this is evidence from history. Actual evidence and anyone can discount evidence if they have an agenda other than actual truth.
<quoted text> Which includes you. I remember your interpretation of the Genesis account where you say the ancients believed there was a bowl in the sky supported on pillars. You sleazed out of answering my question about the stars giving light. If there was a bowl why the stars? The bowl would have blocked the light. The interpretation is moronic but what can one expect from Topix atheists.
<quoted text> Conspiracy theories and garbage. Habve a nice day.
It is amusing they believe in 2000 year old conspiracies among disparate people and places. Only in the minds of the "educated" can such be a reality.

None of that can happen today, can it?

Here is an interesting article on the scientific peer review process, which that same "educated" relies on for their "objectivity". Everyone should read it and see that there is just no chance of any biased beliefs ever creeping into the "scientific" method. I am not saying that seriously.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/s...

Gatekeepers of "knowledge" can only approve of that which they understand, and usually make a living from.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#176343 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny Dave, seriously.
We know the exact figure really , you can chill something to 2.7 degrees above absolute zero, at that temperature you cannot remove the remaining kinetic energy of the atoms or particles.
That is the ground state of energy the lowest reduction possible , because to do so you would have to defeat the uncertainty principle and all known quantum effects.
But when you get to the punchline, "We are designed." you lost a cohesive narrative. I mean it's like giving the directions for cooking rice. And the saying.......
Bring 3 cups water to boil, add 1 cup rice, add butter and salt,
let come to boil, stir rice once, reduce heat and cover.
The sky may turn purple.
<quoted text>
What created the "uncertainty principle"? Other than man?
Other things I could go into about chilling and temperatures.
I've seen purple sky, and sickly green, and colors in between. Haven't you? It depends on the light cast upon what you are viewing. And how you perceive it. You can consider that a quantum effect.
Worshiping theories instead of that which gave rise to the creating of them blinds you. You are worshiping words, not reality.
But you knew that, didn't you?
Scar, when you gonna get back to interjecting some thought, wisdom and insight instead of taking potshots? The uncertainty principle appears to have reversed your sights and interfered with your trigger squeeze. Random firing neurons at pivotal points in your logic process are getting the best of you.


Actually, we've gone well below 2.7 K.

http://ltl.tkk.fi/wiki/LTL/World_record_in_lo...

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#176344 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"There was no knowledge of physics, chemistry, medicine, anatomy, or many other basic subjects. Their view of the universe had the earth at the center with the sun, planets, and stars moving around it. They believed different rules applied above the moon (the heavens) than what applied below (the earth)."
They only had several thousand years of observing nature and living experience like we do. The difference was they didn't have the centralized education system to "educate" everyone to the same belief. How unscientific.
Modern science still puts the earth at the center. All judgment of how the universe works is based upon how matter seems(uncertainty principle?) works here. Very scientific.
The difference is , they didn't have powerful telescopes and other scientific means of discovery. Our difference is, we have powerful telescopes and 400 years of using scientific methods
to make discovery. If you could compress all knowledge from
10,000 bc - 1600 ad into a 1 inch cube the last 400 years of human knowledge would be 110 story building.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#176345 Sep 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The difference is , they didn't have powerful telescopes and other scientific means of discovery. Our difference is, we have powerful telescopes and 400 years of using scientific methods
to make discovery. If you could compress all knowledge from
10,000 bc - 1600 ad into a 1 inch cube the last 400 years of human knowledge would be 110 story building.
Modern science still puts the Earth at the center?

Really?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#176347 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny Dave, seriously.
We know the exact figure really , you can chill something to 2.7 degrees above absolute zero, at that temperature you cannot remove the remaining kinetic energy of the atoms or particles.
That is the ground state of energy the lowest reduction possible , because to do so you would have to defeat the uncertainty principle and all known quantum effects.
But when you get to the punchline, "We are designed." you lost a cohesive narrative. I mean it's like giving the directions for cooking rice. And the saying.......
Bring 3 cups water to boil, add 1 cup rice, add butter and salt,
let come to boil, stir rice once, reduce heat and cover.
The sky may turn purple.
<quoted text>
What created the "uncertainty principle"? Other than man?
Other things I could go into about chilling and temperatures.
I've seen purple sky, and sickly green, and colors in between. Haven't you? It depends on the light cast upon what you are viewing. And how you perceive it. You can consider that a quantum effect.
Worshiping theories instead of that which gave rise to the creating of them blinds you. You are worshiping words, not reality.
But you knew that, didn't you?
Scar, when you gonna get back to interjecting some thought, wisdom and insight instead of taking potshots? The uncertainty principle appears to have reversed your sights and interfered with your trigger squeeze. Random firing neurons at pivotal points in your logic process are getting the best of you.
The uncertainty principle is a discovery not an invention.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176348 Sep 4, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, we've gone well below 2.7 K.
http://ltl.tkk.fi/wiki/LTL/World_record_in_lo...
Your ability to measure and quantify temperature, meaning heat, is dependent on the energy level and properties of the measuring device. It is a relative thing. You are using motion and charge to measure motion and charge, and thus heat. Similar to using a multimeter to measure electricity. Your meter bleeds off a certain amount of the energy or charge, the current and volts just to operate. As an ohmmeter it introduces a DC voltage that interacts with the existing potentials within the material, which, BTW, can be of varying frequency and polarity, both inherent, where temp plays a part, or induced by the environment, such as in front of a broadcasting tower.

It is called calibration. You establish your baseline by what you have to measure with.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#176349 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ability to measure and quantify temperature, meaning heat, is dependent on the energy level and properties of the measuring device. It is a relative thing. You are using motion and charge to measure motion and charge, and thus heat. Similar to using a multimeter to measure electricity. Your meter bleeds off a certain amount of the energy or charge, the current and volts just to operate. As an ohmmeter it introduces a DC voltage that interacts with the existing potentials within the material, which, BTW, can be of varying frequency and polarity, both inherent, where temp plays a part, or induced by the environment, such as in front of a broadcasting tower.
It is called calibration. You establish your baseline by what you have to measure with.
Could I have some bleu cheese with that?

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176350 Sep 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The difference is , they didn't have powerful telescopes and other scientific means of discovery. Our difference is, we have powerful telescopes and 400 years of using scientific methods
to make discovery. If you could compress all knowledge from
10,000 bc - 1600 ad into a 1 inch cube the last 400 years of human knowledge would be 110 story building.
Horseshit. They had brains and reasoning and experience.

The use of telescopes means you are viewing and basing your observations on how light is filtered through some matter, such as glass. There is a fixed geometry to those materials, so you will see only what they can filter, and in a pattern limited by the atomic geometry and grinding geometry. Your determinations of physics and cosmology is based upon assumptions in manipulating that geometry.

I will guarantee you that in those thousands of years someone noted the optical properties of drops of dew on a plant, or the glass that has been made and blown. Or of the camera obscura principle.

Just because you are dumb doesn't mean they were dumber.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#176351 Sep 4, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, we've gone well below 2.7 K.
http://ltl.tkk.fi/wiki/LTL/World_record_in_lo...
Well we artificially do this and even colder.

http://www.livescience.com/25959-atoms-colder...

But I was referring to the natural ground state of the universe
is 2.7 degrees above Absolute zero.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176354 Sep 4, 2013
followerofSatan wrote:
<quoted text>
go have your mommy read to you about "radio telescopes" and figure what they are grinding and stop fondling yourself...
The same applies to electricity and the measurements made since by physics. BTW, most of that was initiated by a devout Christian named Michael Faraday. Which of course means it was part of a Christian conspiracy for world dominance and enslaving of you. It is all lies. You can prove it. Get two long nails, take a shower, don't dry off, then with a nail in each hand, stick them into your nearest wall socket. The truth will set you free. Come back and tell us about it.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#176355 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Horseshit. They had brains and reasoning and experience.
The use of telescopes means you are viewing and basing your observations on how light is filtered through some matter, such as glass. There is a fixed geometry to those materials, so you will see only what they can filter, and in a pattern limited by the atomic geometry and grinding geometry. Your determinations of physics and cosmology is based upon assumptions in manipulating that geometry.
I will guarantee you that in those thousands of years someone noted the optical properties of drops of dew on a plant, or the glass that has been made and blown. Or of the camera obscura principle.
Just because you are dumb doesn't mean they were dumber.
Science was born by the end of the 17th century.
Since then we have learned......almost everything.

1608 The refracting telescope is invented.
1624 The slide rule, compound microscope is invented.
1636 The micrometer is invented.
1642 Adding machine is invented.
1643 barometer is invented.
1675 The Watch is invented.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#176356 Sep 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The same applies to electricity and the measurements made since by physics. BTW, most of that was initiated by a devout Christian named Michael Faraday. Which of course means it was part of a Christian conspiracy for world dominance and enslaving of you. It is all lies. You can prove it. Get two long nails, take a shower, don't dry off, then with a nail in each hand, stick them into your nearest wall socket. The truth will set you free. Come back and tell us about it.
Before 150 years ago , everyone in the west was christian, So what?

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#176357 Sep 4, 2013
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/s...

The uncertainty principle. No, not the one about can a Topix atheist have a real brain. That is a no brainer, they don't.

Anyhow, read and understand how Poly and others entered the rabbit hole and can't get back. Every place they look they throw up a wall or a mirror.

You should also understand how the quarks, virtual particles, and all of these other Wonderland creatures came into being. The term circular reasoning should come to mind.

Oh, there is an element of truth to this infinite division, but it gets lost in a haze caused by the observer.

There is not a place in this physical existence where you can make absolute measurements, and thus, certainty about observations. And that is based upon certainties by our observations. Simply put, we are caught in an energy flow that we base our observations on, but because this energy flow is not consistent in the universe, and we do offer a resistance to it, thus creating potential differences, we are limited by our observational abilities. That means you have to start thinking.

An analogy for the energy flow. Which just so happens to apply to the deepest level of our observational apparatus.

Lightning passing through the ground. Separate and dissimilar "particles" with a large charge acting upon them. One particle can try to make measurements, but there is so much it misses. They can show up as virtual particles. You can miss what you can't measure.

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