Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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EXPERT

Redding, CA

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#175951
Aug 30, 2013
 

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xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
youre PROJECTING
and
LYING
you must be kristain
I noticed you didn't claim my argument was wrong.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#175952
Aug 30, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text> Again, I think you presume far more than was revealed in my little post. I've got no problem with the Bible, as a work of historical literature. I believe Isaiah is one of the most fascinating of ancient works, with it's playful use of acrostics and chiasms, not to mention the national longing revealed in the lovely song cycles, although it's sad how Christianity crassly sliced and diced them into shards of self-serving "prophecy". Ecclesiastes is a seminal work of existential philosophy and has always been a personal favorite. Song Of Solomon contains some of the most kinky images outside of The Penthouse Letters. You presume much when you say I hate the Bible., just as you also presume as to my knowledge thereof, without even doing me the courtesy of inquiring. I suspect I've read my Bible as much as any layman, certainly more than the vast majority of "Christians" I've run across, but I don't say that as a brag, merely because I find myself accused with no evidence. Such is the way in conversing with a defensive Christian, ain't it? That reckless attitude would have fit right in with the Court of Assizes in 1690 Salem.
In truth, you Completely missed my point. I don't care how "regulated" the crime of slavery was in the Bible. What I said was, it's alleged to be a Word direct from God. A Word Of God would surely demand man rise above his depravities, not concede and seek to "regulate" them.
Imagine a parent acting that way. For instance, a child is naturally selfish and hurtful. By this "God's" standard, we wouldn't hold them to a higher standard to think beyond themselves and learn compassion. We would accept it and merely seek to "regulate" their selfish and hurtful impulses. Wait, now I think about it, that's what many do. I guess they are God-like.
So, yes, I totally agree with you - the Bible does not specifically prescribe slavery. It merely accepts it, and "regulates" treating other humans as chattel. And it wasn't so bad. So I'm told.
I would just expect a Word from God to transcend human frailties and depravities, not "accept" and "regulate" them. But you may have a lower standard for "God". If that works for you, well, I'm sure that's good for you. I'm sure you're not as nasty and defensive in real life as you are here. Right? You "regulate" such behavior out in the world, I hope.
You know what, Mr. Biblical-Literate? There is, in fact, one place in the Bible in which slavery is quietly denounced. It's one of the less popular writings, so unless you've actually studies the Bible, most folks ain't even aware of it's message. It is very subtle and nuanced, perhaps too much so, since even among the few that do know of it very often misunderstand it. The writer knows, just as you say, that it is socially revolutionary for the times, and so is very careful with his words, almost Socratic, in helping his audience to see it for himself, rather than have it dictated. The funny thing is, I've seen this Biblical slavery debate play out dozens of times in these forums, and >>not once<< have I seen one of you "Biblically-literate ", Biblical-slavery defenders bring it up. Even tho' it would be your strongest argument, not once have I seen it used. Now, ain't dat a hoot?
Peace in the light of knowledge and truth.
HipGnosis
Excellent, Hip.

So well put.

Ain't that a pip?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

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#175954
Aug 30, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent, Hip.
So well put.
Ain't that a pip?
Well it comes from a New England Ivy League education.

No I didn't.

Prove it.

That cycle was probably my favorite.

Since: Jun 07

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#175955
Aug 31, 2013
 

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EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
I noticed you didn't claim my argument was wrong.
What argument? You didnt present any evidence. No creationist liar ever does.

Go on, insult dawkins to make yourself feel better troll.

Since: Jun 12

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#175956
Aug 31, 2013
 
HipGnosis wrote:
I think you're wrong. I think you're presuming what I'm saying through your own biases rather than doing the simple human courtesy of reading what I actually said.
Lets assume you are correct and i did not read what you actually said. My whole point was you pulled out a particular quote and ignored everything else. You made all sorts of ignorant condescending assumptions. Do you expect others to read what you actually said and then exempt yourself from that same standard? Obviously you do.
I don't see that I've "blamed God" for anything, anything at all.
The overall tone of your post is contempt for God. You don't blame God for anything? With statements like this.

Could there be a more horrid example of the injustice of your God's apparent lassitude?
It is easy to see you are in denial.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#175957
Aug 31, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>In real life you will see them sitting in the coffee shop deep in conversation with themselves, sometimes in a very animate manner. That is why they are usually very alone, as others tend to sit at least a table or two away. They do that at bus stops, parks, and other places, too.
If you two are going to keep striking each other, would you at least have the decency to get a room.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#175958
Aug 31, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>If you two are going to keep striking each other, would you at least have the decency to get a room.
*stroking*

Since: Jun 12

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#175959
Aug 31, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
I'm sorry, I always make the mistake of assuming the other knows the subject which they're defending. You apparently don't know the mitzvah regarding slavery. You apparently don't know of the historical uses of the Bible passages regarding Ham, a passage tailor-made for the task. You apparently don't know of the multiple passages throughout the Conquest in which some "God" is claimed to command the taking of slaves from those whom they're not commanded to slaughter.
Other than confessing what you believe i do not know i don't see a response to any of my points regarding slavery in a world without God where there is no accountability to God. Do you believe attacking me validates your position, whatever that is? From what i can see you have a problem with people owning each other. Why is that objectively wrong in a world without God?
Which is odd because it's the very pasages to which you're referring when you speak of "regulating". If you can speak of that, obviously slavery is covered in the Bible....
...and is not condemned.
Slavery is the result of disobedience on a broad scale. There is Joseph in Genesis but he rose above his circumstances. Obedience brings blessings and disobedience brings curses which includes slavery. You will no doubt dismiss this as another rationalization.
And that is the totality of my point. The owning of another of God's creation - God's "image" - is not condemned.
What is your problem with ownership? They dealt with matters as best they could given their circumstances.
You can rationalize all you like about degrees of "benefit" of being owned by another man, with the Bible-sanctioned ability to punish, to use, to sell, to breed, to auction precious mate and offspring, and if you're careful to do it right, to kill, but it took humans to realize, and fight, against those arguing directly from the Bible, that owning another human as so much livestock is fundamentally wrong. The God of the Bible was of little help in that regard.
The abuse of power brought about judgement from the ''God of the Bible'' who you depict as impotent.(and you have no problem with God, and have far better understanding then us ''defensive Christians'' with,
reckless attitude would have fit right in with the Court of Assizes in 1690 Salem.

Since: Jun 12

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#175960
Aug 31, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You're not clear here, but apparently you're making some kind of arbitrary distinction between slavery in one era versus another era? And you know this, how again?
Its not arbitrary but clear and the Justin quote was referenced where children were mutilated for the purposes of Sodomy and child prostitution. Also there was infant sacrifice on a mass scale. That is why you have verses in the Old which provides safe haven for slaves who escape from cruel forms practiced by Pagan nations. Also there was a qualifier for the Hebrews to remember they were slaves in Egypt and to treat others under their care in a humane manner. The Israelites were delivered from the''Iron Furnace''.
1.)If slavery is endorsed why are the Israelites delivered from Egyptian slavery via Moses?

2)If slavery is endorsed why does Elisha help the widow liberate her children from debt slavery?

3) If slavery is endorsed why are the Israelites commanded to provide safe haven to run away slaves from foreign nations?

Perhaps you can clear all that up for us. I have more questions i could ask.
You have a time machine, I presume?
No. Do you? I referenced the Justin quote.
You know what daily life was like for a slave in bronze-age Palestine? You're rationalizing yet again. "It wasn't so bad, coulda been worse, " is that it?
Exactly right, it could have been worse. A lot worse. They could have been mutilated for the purposes of repeated sodomy. Passed around perhaps? Any attempt to provide context would be treated by you as another rationalization since you already set that precedent. They could intermarry which would have meant a change in status. They could convert. You assume the worse but you do know relationships do develop under harsh circumstances. They had sabbath rests, religious holidays off. These are just a few things.
Ooo-kay. That kind of argument fits neatly among those tacitly perpetuating the travesty of slavery for centuries after the "message from God.
And you have no real problem with God? LOL.

Since: Sep 08

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#175962
Aug 31, 2013
 

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albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical self esteem issues. Just keep trying to top one lie with a bigger one, next time it'll be a 12 incher....I wouldn't believe you if you told me it was a 5 incher.
Tell you about my what again? Penis???? I'm sure I haven't said anything about it since I don't sport one, Sparky;0)
It's not a 5 incher.

Your NDE experience. More details on it. I seem to remember you having a dream where you were in another place totally removed from what was actually occurring to you. Everything was symbolic. You are basing your belief on that dream. Recollection of the details of your thinking at the time would be nice. Were you aware you just died?

I was highly aware of just what happened in my case, and the immediate surroundings. That scene I was about to step into may have been a "dream" like this one I had woken up from.

If you are a material conscious only thinking being the death process is not going to be so nice adrifitng off into sweet dreams. You have the circuitry of your thought process breaking down piecemeal. Your higher thought and control will be overridden by the Klaxon horns set off by your lower level brain circuitry, the more autonomic ones. They MAY be what initiates those "dreams" with chemicals, but you have to consider there is no reason for nature to have developed such a clean way to go, and that those dreams do require a lot of organization to even occur. A few seconds of seeming coherency is an awful lot of structured EM resulting in "thought". Especially when the machine producing it is failing.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#175963
Aug 31, 2013
 

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followerofSatan wrote:
Time out for a verse from the Atheists book.
Your Mother and Father brought you into this world..Not God
Your demise will be decided by fate..Not God
You are on earth for one reason, and for one reason only, to procreate, and when your time is up you will be placed in the ground, or in an urn as ashes in exactly the same as the billions and billions of others who were on the earth before you and have died.
There is no Judgment. You have served your purpose. Why would a man be judged by a God who has overseen Tsunamis, untold wars, earthquakes, and not lifted a finger ?
Be kind, be thoughtful, be nice, be considerate to your fellow men. Do good deeds from the heart, not from the want of attention or personal gain, and do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
All these things are common sense, you have no need of a written word or a God to show you the way to lead a satisfactory life, we all know when we have done wrong
Do not waste your time being afraid of a mythical being that you cannot see, cannot touch, cannot speak to, to discuss why it was that your loved one had to die in a distant war somewhere, or why it is that babies are born crippled for life in his name.
Have no fear of dying.
The only person you have to answer to is yourself, and what you failed to do in life, you certainly will not put right in death.
BOOK OF ATHEISM VERSE 1, CHAPTER 1.
This is very off topic. This is not a "Christian" or "Christian vs Atheism" message tread. In some century, people explain things, and it involved fearing a God or deity, some times just harsh beings capable of punishing. OK, it has nothing to do with "Atheism requires as much faith as religion?" I understand you have an issue with that piece of history, but instead of forming your beliefs around it you should just view it as what it is, part of human history.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#175964
Aug 31, 2013
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Above is a link to Dr M. Kaku deliver one of his latest THEORIES. For all that watch they will feel as it reinforces his or her beliefs in their faith. Please note that he never claims what he offers is the final answer. With each item he learns he has further THEORIES. In which he looks forward to attempting to prove. This is why Dr Kaku is on the top shelf, and the people that teach you to be close minded do what those that can't do. And that is teach. The highest level does not jump the gun.

Atheist can not prove their claims because they do not have enough knowledge to claim proof that there was and is no creator. That day will never come. Especially if humanity is to become an atheist society. Which is a day that should be avoided, by all means.

Since: Jun 13

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#175966
Aug 31, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =nZiROWO6iVs&feature=youtu .be

Above is a link to Dr M. Kaku deliver one of his latest THEORIES. For all that watch they will feel as it reinforces his or her beliefs in their faith. Please note that he never claims what he offers is the final answer. With each item he learns he has further THEORIES. In which he looks forward to attempting to prove. This is why Dr Kaku is on the top shelf, and the people that teach you to be close minded do what those that can't do. And that is teach. The highest level does not jump the gun.

Atheist can not prove their claims because they do not have enough knowledge to claim proof that there was and is no creator. That day will never come. Especially if humanity is to become an atheist society. Which is a day that should be avoided, by all means.
I love Dr. Kaku!!!! Sometimes he is the only one go can explain something scientific so that I can understand it lol. I wish I could pay home to teach me!!!

Since: Sep 08

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#175967
Aug 31, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =nZiROWO6iVs&feature=youtu .be
Above is a link to Dr M. Kaku deliver one of his latest THEORIES. For all that watch they will feel as it reinforces his or her beliefs in their faith. Please note that he never claims what he offers is the final answer. With each item he learns he has further THEORIES. In which he looks forward to attempting to prove. This is why Dr Kaku is on the top shelf, and the people that teach you to be close minded do what those that can't do. And that is teach. The highest level does not jump the gun.
Atheist can not prove their claims because they do not have enough knowledge to claim proof that there was and is no creator. That day will never come. Especially if humanity is to become an atheist society. Which is a day that should be avoided, by all means.
An "atheist" can't make a claim, period, by their own definition of themselves. Non-belief is passive. Making a claim, or choosing among theories something they consider a truth, isn't.

Classic atheism is a part of the growth process, a questioning that leads to a better understanding. Topix atheists are not of that caliber. They are trained apes looking at other trained apes, and trying to exploit them with high sounding words their very basis of "non-belief" render bullshit. They see only the shiny stuff and think "I want". By the very nature of their imagined existence they can not see beyond themselves. They are pure physical constructs with nothing but self interest. They don't believe in a higher intelligence or morality. They can't.

Theists look at another human being, no matter the color or configuration, or even animals, and see a soul trapped inside a body like themselves making do the best they can with what they have. They still have to function on the physical, but they have an awareness of the higher. It is that sort of belief that unites mankind and gives him a purpose to strive for, like reaching out to this higher force. Topix atheists have nothing to strive for but their own desires. Which made them monkeys on a leash held by smarter monkeys.

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#175968
Aug 31, 2013
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch...

That song reminds me of several Topix atheists on here. Grasping out of desperation, and confused.

Since: Sep 08

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#175969
Aug 31, 2013
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Another good descriptive song of the Topix atheist mindset.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#175970
Aug 31, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =86WggXVN5uE
That song reminds me of several Topix atheists on here. Grasping out of desperation, and confused.
This song reminds me of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: Jun 12

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#175971
Aug 31, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
Again, I think you presume far more than was revealed in my little post. I've got no problem with the Bible, as a work of historical literature. I believe Isaiah is one of the most fascinating of ancient works, with it's playful use of acrostics and chiasms, not to mention the national longing revealed in the lovely song cycles, although it's sad how Christianity crassly sliced and diced them into shards of self-serving "prophecy". Ecclesiastes is a seminal work of existential philosophy and has always been a personal favorite. Song Of Solomon contains some of the most kinky images outside of The Penthouse Letters. You presume much when you say I hate the Bible., just as you also presume as to my knowledge thereof, without even doing me the courtesy of inquiring. I suspect I've read my Bible as much as any layman, certainly more than the vast majority of "Christians" I've run across, but I don't say that as a brag, merely because I find myself accused with no evidence. Such is the way in conversing with a defensive Christian, ain't it? That reckless attitude would have fit right in with the Court of Assizes in 1690 Salem.
All i am seeing here is all hat and no cattle claims along with a lot of attitude. Bloviating. If you have any knowledge of Scripture then it should be demonstrated. All i am seeing is regurgitated crap and hostile assumptions. You like Isaiah and Songs Oh well. Throw us a bone.
In truth, you Completely missed my point. I don't care how "regulated" the crime of slavery was in the Bible.
Naturally. You don't care about context history or anything! Your hostility over Scripture overrides them all! You only care about slavery as regulated in the Old and ignore it everywhere else! Never mind they lived under totally different circumstances and there were certain practices which appear barbaric to us. You just swoop back 3000 years and say ain't it awful. There is a logic fallacy in there somewhere. It is the Bible that is the crime! Why don't you just admit it! In a world without God why is slavery a crime? You statement presupposes slavery is a crime at all times in all places but you only highlight slavery as depicted in the Bible and ignore it everywhere else! Again, that means your problem is with the Bible and not with slavery.
What I said was, it's alleged to be a Word direct from God.
Some parts yes. Certainly not Ecclesiastes.
A Word Of God would surely demand man rise above his depravities, not concede and seek to "regulate" them.
Well that is what happens. Man keeps messing up and God works within the system to bring about results. Over and over again. There is a concession for divorce within the New brought about by Moses. God works with Israel when they are dragged off into captivity through Daniel, Esther. This i fricken rudiment and off the top of my head.
Imagine a parent acting that way. For instance, a child is naturally selfish and hurtful. By this "God's" standard, we wouldn't hold them to a higher standard to think beyond themselves and learn compassion.
More God bashing. A God you do not believe exists given your extremely limited understanding of what you are actually talking about? It is just so frustrating to deal with this invincible ignorance. It is like trying to teach a student how to perform a simple task. Demonstrating again and aging and they still don't get it.

Since: Jun 07

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#175972
Aug 31, 2013
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> All i am seeing here is all hat and no cattle claims along with a lot of attitude. Bloviating. If you have any knowledge of Scripture then it should be demonstrated. All i am seeing is regurgitated crap and hostile assumptions. You like Isaiah and Songs Oh well. Throw us a bone.
<quoted text> Naturally. You don't care about context history or anything! Your hostility over Scripture overrides them all! You only care about slavery as regulated in the Old and ignore it everywhere else! Never mind they lived under totally different circumstances and there were certain practices which appear barbaric to us. You just swoop back 3000 years and say ain't it awful. There is a logic fallacy in there somewhere. It is the Bible that is the crime! Why don't you just admit it! In a world without God why is slavery a crime? You statement presupposes slavery is a crime at all times in all places but you only highlight slavery as depicted in the Bible and ignore it everywhere else! Again, that means your problem is with the Bible and not with slavery.<quoted text> Some parts yes. Certainly not Ecclesiastes. <quoted text> Well that is what happens. Man keeps messing up and God works within the system to bring about results. Over and over again. There is a concession for divorce within the New brought about by Moses. God works with Israel when they are dragged off into captivity through Daniel, Esther. This i fricken rudiment and off the top of my head.
<quoted text> More God bashing. A God you do not believe exists given your extremely limited understanding of what you are actually talking about? It is just so frustrating to deal with this invincible ignorance. It is like trying to teach a student how to perform a simple task. Demonstrating again and aging and they still don't get it.
Idiot theists lack the evidence for any meaningful conversation about the lies they tell regarding god.

Since: Jun 07

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#175973
Aug 31, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =86WggXVN5uE
That song reminds me of several Topix atheists on here. Grasping out of desperation, and confused.
The only desperate people here are the creationists in the atheism forum, lying about a god they know they cannot prove.

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