Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#175183 Aug 21, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start from the treads name "Atheism requires as much faith as religion?" The question mark in my opinion, means the word does belongs there, as the first word, causing the question. You admitting you have beliefs, that requires faith. Back to the question or just part of it "as much as religion". Not the question of style, but as much. Clearly faith is required. In my opinion answering the question asked. More faith than religion. The greatest evidence is here online, if this was not true this minority of people would not have so many online post treads, and the most blogged upon treads. The real question is, and I hope one day it is covered here "Could atheism be the majority, and not be fundamentalist?" I am sorry but my answer is "No" ad I don't think freedom of speech or religion would be afforded by such a group. Please spare me the mid evil ages crap. I am all ready telling that was just the times period.
"Mr.[Stevens], what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#175185 Aug 22, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Until you could prove there was no creator, yours is created. You admit then try not to, it's too funny.
Intellectual laziness at its finest.

1. You just made a claim statement - produce your evidence.

2. All religious believers "know" their religion is "the one, true religion." So you'd further have to explain why your deity and not any other. Go ahead, produce your evidence.

3. Again, for the slow of mind, your reality is a subjective one. it's not objectively real. It's not shared by everyone on this planet. It's most certainly not shared by believers of different religions to yours.

And it's not shared by atheists such as myself.

But don't take my word for it - produce your evidence, please.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#175186 Aug 22, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
2. All religious believers "know" their religion is "the one, true religion." So you'd further have to explain why your deity and not any other. Go ahead, produce your evidence.
Because of this, many theists have beliefs which are more akin to deists. They know, but often won't admit, that religion is nonsense, because more often than not, people are indoctrinated into a particular religion from birth.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175187 Aug 22, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Bloody 'eck, Bob, what are you doing up at this Bog-awful hour?
... um... not sleeping?

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175188 Aug 22, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Because of this, many theists have beliefs which are more akin to deists. They know, but often won't admit, that religion is nonsense, because more often than not, people are indoctrinated into a particular religion from birth.
Indeed.

And I absolutely have **no** beef with such people.

Once they recognize that no religion can claim superiority over the next, with regards to the fundamental principles on which it's based?

They become more tolerant of other religions and even of non-religious too.

And quit trying to force-fit their religion into the public sphere.

Which is when I **quit** caring what they do in their spare time.

:)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#175189 Aug 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
... um... not sleeping?
:D
I wasn't either. Only I'd just got home from work.

Blecchh.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175190 Aug 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You also go to sleep and get up the same way. That's your physical consciousness. Your subconscious stands guard.
I hope the real thing works for you as well.
I just posted this in PTAG. Read the news link.

"
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-man-declare ...

Another instance of a man being declared dead by learned other men coming to life again.

The patient didn't recall anything after going to bed the night before. But he had an issue that developed into his going to the hospital where he wound up being declared dead.

I posted in the Atheism requires faith forum this morning or last night about the subconscious stands guard in response to a poster that said he had lights out a few times and thought death was just going off to eternal sleep.

Evidently not. There was enough consciousness somewhere in there to be aware of reality and react to stimuli. Note the immediate response to his son's voice. That takes cognizance. Everything was shut off. Of course, once they started embalming he just wasn't going to come back in near the same physical condition.

I've posted a few times about this before."

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175191 Aug 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither are atheistic countries-- both are cults of personality-- a sort of religion: YOU WOULD LOVE IT THERE.
But Saudi Arabia? Is even MORE religious! You'd fit right in-- it's religious fascism-- your favorite.
I was referring to Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, the UK to name a few of the top contenders.
All have superior stats than the US has.
Those are not Atheist countries. Maybe UK, could you say too much taxes. Atheism sucks and North Korea and China are yours as was the former Soviet Union.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175192 Aug 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Science has done exactly that: the universe is not causal.
This is well established physics.
I know, I know-- it is way beyond your abilities to understand.
Too bad.
Bob you never have proved it and you never will. You can't. Nice try sunshine. The day you could you would, but that day is not coming. Even Stephen Hawkins has admitted this, in his view atheism is most likely but will never be able to be proven.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175193 Aug 22, 2013
DavidQuinn wrote:
Atheism requires no faith at all but I wish i had Jean-Paul sartre's attitude to religion, a man so thoroughly atheist he deemed the whole subject beneath his intelligence to consider. Simply religion is divisive and restricts us as a species, simple as that. Check out a book that's causing a bit of a buzz in the Uk called 2082 the chronicles of hope. On the website the 1st chapter for the 1st book is on there for free, there's a speech in there by an atheist politician that's genius
True, but Atheism does the same thing. The difference is religion most often is established to entertain the masses, Atheism is established to police the masses. Orwell was correct.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175194 Aug 22, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Intellectual laziness at its finest.
1. You just made a claim statement - produce your evidence.
2. All religious believers "know" their religion is "the one, true religion." So you'd further have to explain why your deity and not any other. Go ahead, produce your evidence.
3. Again, for the slow of mind, your reality is a subjective one. it's not objectively real. It's not shared by everyone on this planet. It's most certainly not shared by believers of different religions to yours.
And it's not shared by atheists such as myself.
But don't take my word for it - produce your evidence, please.
I never claimed I could produce evidence. My statement is clear and simple. For Atheism not to require faith, and furthermore not be a belief. The origin of The Universe would have to be proven, and proven that there is no creator. This would only happen when the human race knows everything. That's not happening. It comes down to what you believe is the greatest likelihood. I believe that is a case by case basis. Face it you faith should not be spread. Every time you do it, you prove you are a person of religion. I see no reason to spread my beliefs. I could offer books to read. I doubt you would enjoy them. They just are not for you. I accept you do know yourself, why do you have a hard time with all of humanity knowing themselves? I think that answer is obvious, and I don't need to hear it. Now could you get back on topic.
xianity is EVIL

Tecumseh, Canada

#175195 Aug 22, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are not Atheist countries. Maybe UK, could you say too much taxes. Atheism sucks and North Korea and China are yours as was the former Soviet Union.
time for a lesson in history for ya

The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion

Many Religious Right activists have attempted to rewrite history by asserting that the United States government derived from Christian foundations, that our Founding Fathers originally aimed for a Christian nation. This idea simply does not hold to the historical evidence.

The U.S. Constitution

The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being
.(For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

www.nobeliefs.com
xianity is EVIL

Tecumseh, Canada

#175196 Aug 22, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I never claimed I could produce evidence. My statement is clear and simple. For Atheism not to require faith, and furthermore not be a belief. The origin of The Universe would have to be proven, and proven that there is no creator. This would only happen when the human race knows everything. That's not happening. It comes down to what you believe is the greatest likelihood. I believe that is a case by case basis. Face it you faith should not be spread. Every time you do it, you prove you are a person of religion. I see no reason to spread my beliefs. I could offer books to read. I doubt you would enjoy them. They just are not for you. I accept you do know yourself, why do you have a hard time with all of humanity knowing themselves? I think that answer is obvious, and I don't need to hear it. Now could you get back on topic.
you can repeat your Lies as much as you want,it still wont make it correct

from wiki

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

now Google "religion" so you know what that means,right now youre sounding like a very DENSE xian fanatic
xianity is EVIL

Tecumseh, Canada

#175197 Aug 22, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but Atheism does the same thing. The difference is religion most often is established to entertain the masses, Atheism is established to police the masses. Orwell was correct.
LMAO
you got it azz backwards bro,Religion is used to control people,

atheism just makes them free and able to think independently of religious BS

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175198 Aug 22, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
time for a lesson in history for ya
The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion
Many Religious Right activists have attempted to rewrite history by asserting that the United States government derived from Christian foundations, that our Founding Fathers originally aimed for a Christian nation. This idea simply does not hold to the historical evidence.
The U.S. Constitution
The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being
.(For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.
www.nobeliefs.com
"To be sure, the Constitution could have avoided the words "Year of our Lord" in the date (as it does elsewhere when it refers to specific years), but it's hard to imagine why. "The Year of our Lord" was the standard way of dating important documents in the 1700s; its use was ritualistic, not religious. It is doubtful that anyone, Christian, deist, or otherwise, would have given the words a second thought, or ascribed to them any legal significance. And if the intent of the Constitution was to signal a favored status for Christianity, it could have done so in a thousand less ambiguous ways than including the words "in the Year of our Lord." That some accommodationists appeal to these words is silent testimony to how little evidence there is for the idea that the Constitution embodies Christian morality or thought."

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg10c.htm

That is an example of atheist apologetics. There was the option of using the other forms((as it does elsewhere when it refers to specific years)), but that one was chosen.

That is not a religious website. If a more secular form had been used elsewhere, then it was quite available for use there. It wasn't.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175199 Aug 22, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
you can repeat your Lies as much as you want,it still wont make it correct
from wiki
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]
now Google "religion" so you know what that means,right now youre sounding like a very DENSE xian fanatic
" rejection"+"the position"=belief

Those are actions that require a certain knowledge and decision based upon such knowledge. That becomes a belief.

The absence of such belief would require total ignorance such belief exists. So your atheism is based upon ignorance or belief.

That means you made a conscious decision to reject the other belief if you were aware of it.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#175200 Aug 22, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
time for a lesson in history for ya
The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion
Many Religious Right activists have attempted to rewrite history by asserting that the United States government derived from Christian foundations, that our Founding Fathers originally aimed for a Christian nation. This idea simply does not hold to the historical evidence.
The U.S. Constitution
The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being
.(For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.
www.nobeliefs.com
It is true! But to be POTUS or part of tribe in Power , i would say you must be a Chistain of certain demonination to enter Power Structure in govt!
read this and see if you agree, religions used for evil!'

Under the Banner if Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, by John Krakauer
"
This, after all, is a country [US] led by a born-again Christian [Bush]... who characterizes international relations as a biblical clash between forces of good and evil. The highest law officer in the land, Attorney General John Ashcroft, is a dyed-in-the-wool follower of a fundamentalist Christian sect—the Pentecostal Assemblies of God of America—... and subscribes to a vividly apocalyptic worldview that has much in common with key millenarian beliefs held by the Lafferty brothers and the residents of Colorado City.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#175201 Aug 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I just posted this in PTAG. Read the news link.
"
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-man-declare ...
Another instance of a man being declared dead by learned other men coming to life again.
The patient didn't recall anything after going to bed the night before. But he had an issue that developed into his going to the hospital where he wound up being declared dead.
I posted in the Atheism requires faith forum this morning or last night about the subconscious stands guard in response to a poster that said he had lights out a few times and thought death was just going off to eternal sleep.
Evidently not. There was enough consciousness somewhere in there to be aware of reality and react to stimuli. Note the immediate response to his son's voice. That takes cognizance. Everything was shut off. Of course, once they started embalming he just wasn't going to come back in near the same physical condition.
I've posted a few times about this before."
BIG big difference between almost dead and all the way dead. Clearly he wasn't all the way dead yet.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175202 Aug 22, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>BIG big difference between almost dead and all the way dead. Clearly he wasn't all the way dead yet.
Stupid observation, Aura. His next stop was the freezer, autopsy, then mortician. By determination of the doctor and devices of modern science. No doubt about it, whatever residual consciousness he possessed, those would have killed it. Even if he was aware of them starting to slice him open. That could be you.

That doesn't agree too well with your belief in strictly material consciousness.

Remember what I have posted about going through the dying process not being as you would like to think?

That is why it is nice to have someplace for your consciousness to run off to instead of hanging around.

But believe what you want.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#175203 Aug 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Stupid observation, Aura. His next stop was the freezer, autopsy, then mortician. By determination of the doctor and devices of modern science. No doubt about it, whatever residual consciousness he possessed, those would have killed it. Even if he was aware of them starting to slice him open. That could be you.
That doesn't agree too well with your belief in strictly material consciousness.
Remember what I have posted about going through the dying process not being as you would like to think?
That is why it is nice to have someplace for your consciousness to run off to instead of hanging around.
But believe what you want.
I don't have to believe anything Dave, it's pretty straight forward. People have been mistakenly presumed dead , because vital signs were either to weak to detect or in a such a near death state, they were on the brink.
Many have recovered from narrowly escaping this brush with death.
Some even from the morgue right before they would have been made dead, if not already.

But once you're really dead , it's forever and final.

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