Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255314 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#174728 Aug 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no faith-- at all.
The DEFAULT state therefore? Is atheist.
I would LOVE for there to be a beneficial god watching out for humans.
But preventable EVIL proves to 100%, that ain't so...
... if god is real? He's just an uncaring dick.
Pretty much like...
.... you.
You question perfection you are not the first and won't be the last.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#174729 Aug 17, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
You are too funny you can't prove any of that, and never will be able to. If I had your beliefs it would be worthy of pity. If you are correct you loss. I do believe you are correct about yourself, as a person of quantum beliefs should and would. You are Atheist Bob the great denier, not Quantum God, the searcher.
He is just another idiot with delusions of intelligence. He doesn't really have a name or identity. Just a another pile of stellar poop. According to his very own non-belief.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#174730 Aug 17, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Please give a definition of the term 'cause'. By all standard definitions, quantum events are uncaused. Causality happens because large numbers of random events have predictable result.
<quoted text>
If the universe is due to a quantum fluctuation then it is strictly speaking uncaused. That is because quantum fluctuations, which we know exist and happen all the time, are uncaused. The alternative, of course, is that the universe is eternal: that is didn't start at the Big bang, but instead the BB was a transition between states. In either case, to use the word 'cause' as applied to the universe as a whole (as opposed to parts of the universe) is a misuse of the word. Causality happens *in time* and time is part of the universe.
Honestly if my 15 year old nephew was asking me what you are I would yell at him for being sarcastic. If you need these things explained to you... just don't know what to tell you,perhaps watch more science TV.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#174731 Aug 17, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
He is just another idiot with delusions of intelligence. He doesn't really have a name or identity. Just a another pile of stellar poop. According to his very own non-belief.
This creationist idiot wants to us believe that dinosaurs never existed.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#174732 Aug 17, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly if my 15 year old nephew was asking me what you are I would yell at him for being sarcastic. If you need these things explained to you... just don't know what to tell you,perhaps watch more science TV.
And this creationist is a lying coward with no proof of god who doesn't know when to take his failed pathetic cult and f*ck back off to whence he came.

On the other hand if you're prepared to prove the god your cult sent you here to lie about, you are welcome.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#174733 Aug 17, 2013
When you physically type out what a creationist actually believes, its a wonder how how these idiots managed to live in the dark for so long?

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#174734 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it a logical absurdity?
Please explain why the universe cannot create itself. Use advanced physics in your answer, please, since you have chosen to spar with Hawking.
David Hilbert, the greatest mathematical mind of the 20th century has stated: "The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea." This means that past events are real and are finite.

In 1913, Albert Einstein and Edwin Hubble discovered compelling evidence that the universe is expanding. As the discoveries of the 20th century accumulated, we found that time, space, matter, and energy appeared to have had a point of origin in the finite past. In the late 60s and early 70s, Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose all published papers with regard to extensions of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, and these included measurements of time and space that subsequently demonstrated that both space and time had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origins of matter and energy. Their conclusion was that causally, prior to that moment, space and time didn't exist. Interesting huh?

That leads to the next argument.

Premise 1: Everything that *BEGINS* to exist has a cause.(This doesn't apply to God, because God is eternal. and therefore doesn't need a cause to exist.)

Premise 2: The universe began to exist.

Conclusion: The universe must have a cause.

The first Law of Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be transferred from one system to another in different forms. This means that the total amount of energy available in the universe has been constant since it came into existence. Matter can be converted into energy as Einstein observed when he gave us his equation E=MC2.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is also stated as the Law of Increased Entropy. While the amount of matter/energy remains constant (conforming to the First law of Thermodynamics), the quality (usability) of that matter/energy gradually deteriorates over time. How? Usable energy is used for productivity, growth, and repair. In these processes, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. To illustrate this, imagine the heat that comes from pouring a pot of boiling water into a large lake. That heat isn't truly "lost" but rather dissipates to the point that it's undetectable. Likewise, any latent energy like a wound up spring will have a tendency towards unwinding in a kinetic stage and will dissipate towards uselessness. Usable energy constantly appears to be irretrievably "lost" in the form of unusable matter/energy. Eventually, with the exception of supernatural interference, all matter/energy will reach max entropy or for lack of better words, maximum equilibrium.

Entropy is defined as a measure of unusable energy that is inside a closed or isolated system, like our universe. As usable energy decreases and unusable energy increases, then entropy increases. Entropy is also a method we can use to measure randomness or chaos within the same closed or isolated system. As usable energy is lost, randomness and chaos increase.

Since the order in the universe was at maximum in the beginning and has been winding down into disorder since then, then a natural question comes into view. "Who organized it initially?" Another way we can use deductive reasoning is that if the universe had eternally existed in the past, it would have long ago decayed or dissipated into max entropy or disorder. Because that hasn't happened, we know the universe had a beginning.

And you silly atheists thought I didn't understand science and was a "quasi" young-earth-creationist? Please! LOL. Gotcha!:D

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#174735 Aug 17, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
You are assuming
And you are "assuming" your "pie in the sky guy". Just show him to me and I too, The Great BlueTooth Redoran, will too, bow to youse goodie saviour! Yea, me doo!!!!

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#174736 Aug 17, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have intellectualized yourself out of reality.
Quantum fluctuations are caused. Quantum is not a thing, it is an effect. Quantum mechanics is an expression of those effects used as a tool.
The BBT is a bud or seed that emerged from a larger "universe".
Quantum fluctuations are caused by a potential for them to occur, they do not have to have any temporal cause. They have the ability to be retroactive so the effect can precede the cause.
This is why Einstein rejected Quantum mechanics, believing god does not play dice. But it's found because of the uncertainty principle and quantum effects near absolute zero are states and effects that defy logic. So it can be said god not only play's dice , they can be thrown places you can't see. Put another way anything that has the potential to happen, will eventually happen.

Simply said the universe is here because the potential existed for it to be here. If this potential did not exist, it would not be here. Which tells us no matter how counter intuitive it seems to us, that if you reduce something to absolutely nothing , there is still something there. It's the he ground state and it's what we discovered to be ZPE. The universe cannot be reduced any farther, if it was there would simply never have been anything.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#174739 Aug 17, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
David Hilbert, the greatest mathematical mind of the 20th century has stated: "The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought.
Infinities do exist, but we cannot rationalize them.
They are incomprehensible to human logic.
But I can tell you of one such infinity that does exist.
The Light Horizon to the observable universe, anything beyond it has not been seen, because the light hasn't made it here yet.
Eventually we will see the light from stars beyond the particle horizon. But beyond this there is another horizon.
Because of the expansion of the universe, a point exists
that light will never reach here, even traveling the speed of light there will never be enough time for it to reach us.
Because the distance will forever be infinite.

46–47 billion light-years to particle horizon, 20-30 billion light years beyond that point is at infinite distance and the event horizon of the universe.

http://i.imgur.com/yiBDa.png



http://telescoper.files.wordpress.com/2012/03...

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#174741 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Its because you're another simple minded liar with no proof of god that you cannot prove any of the rubbish that you type.
You stay up too late and you drink too much. All of your statements are of that caliber. You must be Liberty's long lost brother or his sock. Right Oogah Boogah?:)

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#174742 Aug 17, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Quantum fluctuations are caused by a potential for them to occur, they do not have to have any temporal cause. They have the ability to be retroactive so the effect can precede the cause.
This is why Einstein rejected Quantum mechanics, believing god does not play dice. But it's found because of the uncertainty principle and quantum effects near absolute zero are states and effects that defy logic. So it can be said god not only play's dice , they can be thrown places you can't see. Put another way anything that has the potential to happen, will eventually happen.
Simply said the universe is here because the potential existed for it to be here. If this potential did not exist, it would not be here. Which tells us no matter how counter intuitive it seems to us, that if you reduce something to absolutely nothing , there is still something there. It's the he ground state and it's what we discovered to be ZPE. The universe cannot be reduced any farther, if it was there would simply never have been anything.
Dice have to be thrown.

Take a reality pill and try to think about the cosmic significance of such a deep intelligent insight.

You and Poly fell into the same hole trying to think.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#174747 Aug 17, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Dice have to be thrown.
Take a reality pill and try to think about the cosmic significance of such a deep intelligent insight.
You and Poly fell into the same hole trying to think.
The above is not proof of any god of any kind.

But it is proof the poster has nothing to go on...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#174748 Aug 17, 2013
Asch Paradigm_ wrote:
<quoted text>It is quite funny to watch them.
Their theory is this, the universe exists so since it exists then it can not have a creator. I guess that would mean to them, if the universe did not exist then the universe would need a creator. Then the simple task they have is to prove that the universe always existed.
It's not a theory.

Modern quantum mechanics proves beyond a doubt, that there are constant events without any cause behind them.

The universe is just one more such.

To **prove** it was created?

It is up to **you** to prove the requirement FOR a creator.

You have a LOT of proving to do.

You better get busy.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#174750 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Says the idiot creationist who denies dinosaurs existed.
Listen numb nuts,Yeah that's you Skeptic! Clownie the Anointed doesn't hate you brainless heathens. He just feels extremely sorry for you losers, and points out your ignorant ways of continuously staying losers. Clownie actually feels great pity for you intellectually challenged twits. It's amazing how you continue to show your supreme stupidity. YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, remember? So, how would you of all people know what the Almighty would do. God put yours truly here on Topix for a reason. To show others who are lost and confused, that there is a chance to end up in Heaven, if you choose the right path in life, and not wander down the broad highway to stupidity that you atheistic morons are on. To God fearing people, God does things in mysterious ways. God has a purpose to what He does. He's not some drifty heathen like you lifeless morons, who are taking up space on planet Earth, that should had by someone with a righteous direction in their life, and who believes in God. To show you proof that God does things in mysterious ways ... He allows you atheist losers to wander about the planet making complete asses out of yourselves. LMAO!!! Well, it does show that God has a tremendous sense of humor. FACT!!!

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#174751 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
And this creationist is a lying coward with no proof of god who doesn't know when to take his failed pathetic cult and f*ck back off to whence he came.
On the other hand if you're prepared to prove the god your cult sent you here to lie about, you are welcome.
If you say this is what a lying coward does, then it is you that is the lying coward. The tread says "Atheism requires as much faith as religion." meaning when you come to this tread it is your turn sunshine, to produce the proof. Cut and dry, you can not do it. You can not now and most likely ever, be able to prove, The Universe has no creator. You have indulged yourself for many years echoing that the format that insist there is a God that is of man's image was the creator, even that you can't debunk, although I would admit it is less likely. But so is atheism. You have faith in a belief, because you can't prove. There is nothing wrong with that.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#174752 Aug 17, 2013
Redoran wrote:
<quoted text>
And you are "assuming" your "pie in the sky guy". Just show him to me and I too, The Great BlueTooth Redoran, will too, bow to youse goodie saviour! Yea, me doo!!!!
You're still assuming. Let me now introduce you to what I find to be most possible. The creator of The Universe may set off so much energy. Nothing could get close to it. I find this to be the greatest possibility . No creator it has way to much that can't be explain, and really it just does not go that direction. In the possibilities of creation I don't see how Atheism could even make the top 10. You need to battle it out with Fundamentalist Christians. It's like fox hunting rabbits, but some times the rabbits win.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#174753 Aug 17, 2013
Asch Paradigm_ wrote:
<quoted text> calling you a TOE. Only batshit athitards are this stewpid cuz you are only happy when your TOE is in your mouth.

So you were being honest? You really think this way?
I should feel sorry for you, lack of common sense or knowledge is a thing to be pitied somewhat.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#174754 Aug 17, 2013
Asch Paradigm_ wrote:
<quoted text>It is quite funny to watch them.
Their theory is this, the universe exists so since it exists then it can not have a creator. I guess that would mean to them, if the universe did not exist then the universe would need a creator. Then the simple task they have is to prove that the universe always existed.
You view it as you see it and I view it as I do. Knowing I have a soul, and I connect to The Perfect One. I know there is a creator. You know you do not have a soul. Regardless you should still be able to see what is obvious. Your points of denying changes nothing. You're no different from the person that says "Obama is not my President." yet he is a citizen of The United States.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#174755 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
If you believe in hell, then you believe love can be created through the threat of torture. It's kind of funny that you wouldn't believe love to be forced, if you believe in hell.

Or pay the price - that's the threat.
You have such a crazy religion!
You jumped all over the place here so can we concentrate on one concept or point of contention? I'll give my answers in 3 parts or replies as time allows.

Let's discuss hell since that seems to be a major issue for skeptics. First of all, what is the nature of hell? What are its properties? For some odd reason, skeptics and fundamentalist Christians seem to think of it as a place or location and that deliberate acts of metaphysical torture occur there as if it were some torture chamber in the dark ages. As we go forward, please understand that I have a very different understanding of the nature of hell.

The concept of hell that is most popular is that of Dante's Inferno. I strongly disagree. Jesus Christ (if you choose to accept his description or concept) stated that it was a place of "outer darkness" with much weeping and "gnashing of teeth." Let's apply Forensic Statement Analysis (FSA) to this description.

"Outer darkness" implies a place that is opposite of "inner" and of "light". This appears to be a condensed description. Compressed. So let's unpack it. If God is described as the very essence and source of light (Psalm 36:9- For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light.) and love (1 John 4:8- Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.) then we can conclude that being in His presence is to know both. This fits the concept of the realm known as Heaven.

Outer darkness then must be a place that is devoid of love and light. Darkness and indifference must be the attributes or properties of such a place, and it follows that no love is even possible. Any references to fire or flame appear to be allegorical and may actually allude to the flush feeling of shame that we feel when we know for fact that we have done something wrong. It may also be a metaphor for the emotional feelings of burning with envy for something out of reach, and if hell is absent of light and love, then it's only logical to conclude that those who are there do indeed envy and crave what they can't have, which is love and light.

Now with those contrasts in mind, let's examine a third realm or state of existence. The one we are in right now. Here in our lives, we know both love and light, and of sorrow and darkness, good and evil. It is here and now that we get to experience these to a limited degree, and to make a choice as to which one we prefer. Now if love can only be experienced in a limited manner here on this earth in our present state of existence, it's only because it is counter-balanced by the presence of evil. They keep each other in a state of check. Neither can be totally dominant. Otherwise, we have no way to differentiate between good and evil, and no way to freely choose. If we reject God, we are rejecting eternally infinite love in favor of temporary
finite love.

If we choose to exit our current state of metaphysical existence in such denial, we are consenting by default to enter that new realm where love isn't even possible and darkness is so pervasive that it absorbs us like a black sponge, never releasing us. No thanks.

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