Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173537 Aug 5, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Exactly there were at least 12 serious well known historians in Jerusalem at the time he was supposedly preaching, doing miracles and executed. Not one word from any of them.
<quoted text>
Ah this should be interesting. List them please. And what they ate for breakfast on their 16th birthdays. And how long they slept the night of their 21st birthdays. I won't hold my breath. My point being, my unreasonable request for evidence is every bit as stupid as yours. So ya better get busy cuz I ain't buying it.:)

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173538 Aug 5, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet... you don't seem to be able to produce this ... "overwhelming evidence"....
...why?
Well Bob, on this point we'll have to disagree. I feel that the evidence presented is enough. I don't need 100% certainty. The evidence presented is sufficient to prove the existence of Christ. And the charges that historians wrote well after Jesus' time doesn't work. I've already shown that Bruce Catton wrote excellent histories of the American Civil War and he was born 34 years AFTER the civil war ended. And HIS sources were? Eye-witnesses! Ta-daaa! So if it works for Bruce Catton and the Civil war, why can't the same principles work for Jesus?

Do you know why we keep using the same evidence?

Because it's true. If it wasn't true we'd be inventing all kinds of things. But then we would need a motive. Gee, I wonder what kind of motive I would need to manufacture something like that.(Tapping fingers on my desk)

Afraid of death? Nope. If I die and there isn't a god then the worms get a free buffet. No big deal.

Is Quantum Bob going to send me money for charitable reasons? Nope. I wouldn't even ask.

Would Liberty humble himself and concede that he's not perfect? Nope. I would never hold my breath for that miracle. Besides I'd hate to infringe upon his ego. It's all he has.

Do I feel the need to be declared "correct" in public? Nope. I already believe I am. No need to brag about it.

So what motive is there to make anything up to support such a wonderful story?(Tapping fingers again)

Damned if I know, I guess the best answer is,(ready?)

Wait

for

it-

I present the same evidence because I believe it's the best possible explanation of why things are the way they are. No need to fear judgement. If there's a creator and I'm wrong in my life, who am I to object? Who am I to lie? No need to.:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#173539 Aug 5, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you are only off by a factor of a thousand rather than a factor of a million. What evidence did you look at and why didn't it convince you of at least 'billions'? Seven million years only gets us about 1/9 of the way back to the dinosaurs. And I would say the dates are very accurate back much farther than that.
Indeed they are-- as I understand it, the evidence for items/phenomena dating back at least 1/2 a billion are quite extensive.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#173540 Aug 5, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
His imagination doesn't count as proof? What about his biblical fan fiction??
<quoted text>
Indeed.

If "imagination" was proof?

You could easily send your kid to Hogwarts...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#173541 Aug 5, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Bob, on this point we'll have to disagree.
Okay.. hardly surprising.
Roman Apologist wrote:
I feel that the evidence presented is enough. I don't need 100% certainty. The evidence presented is sufficient to prove the existence of Christ.
But **you** already believe the tales... so who cares if it's enough for **you**?

The problem is-- you need more people in your camp, for world-wide, christianity is on the decline.

And without some proof that **is** convincing to people who are not already a member?

You're going to keep losing membership.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#173542 Aug 5, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know why we keep using the same evidence?
Because it's true. If it wasn't true we'd be inventing all kinds of things. But then we would need a motive. Gee, I wonder what kind of motive I would need to manufacture something like that.(Tapping fingers on my desk)
You need a motive?

Easy: you wish to retain your wishful dreams.

That one was simple.

More: you wish to **justify** your membership in the **group**.

You have **already** decided it's all real-- so it would hardly matter to YOU if "facts" were fabricated.

Would it? YOU ALREADY BELIEVE, REGARDLESS OF ANY FACTS.

No.

Your arguments remain unconvincing:

## Jesus likely never lived as a human, but if he did? He was **only** human

## the bible cannot be divine in origin-- it's too evil, too flawed

## without those two? All basis for christianity has just evaporated into the aether.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#173543 Aug 5, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
I present the same evidence because I believe it's the best possible explanation of why things are the way they are. No need to fear judgement. If there's a creator and I'm wrong in my life, who am I to object? Who am I to lie? No need to.:)
Good old Pascal's Joke.

Often miscalled "Pascal's Wager" but he was far from stupid.

No-- his "you may as well believe, what have you to lose" is his last JOKE on the gullible fools who think it's an argument.

For it means this:

YOUR GOD IS SO STUPID HE EASILY FALLS FOR A "JUST IN CASE" FAITH.

How lame is THAT?

Pretty lame, really... and pretty STUPID...

.... for a god...!!!

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#173544 Aug 5, 2013
No I am asking for a single shred of secular historical proof for the existence of Jesus which seems a reasonable request.... Something you have failed to provide.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Ah this should be interesting. List them please. And what they ate for breakfast on their 16th birthdays. And how long they slept the night of their 21st birthdays. I won't hold my breath. My point being, my unreasonable request for evidence is every bit as stupid as yours. So ya better get busy cuz I ain't buying it.:)

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#173545 Aug 5, 2013
Lol! Well we have just as much secular historical proof for Hogwarts as we have for Jesus.

Well Harry Potter was more original than the Jesus myth which clearly stole from the numerous Hellenistic religions of the region.

It's like one day Yahweh said... Well Sheeeeyoooottt! Why does Zeus get to impregnate virgins and have his son be a savior and I don't? Gotta get on it right now! Hmmm Hercules walked on water? Well my son will too! Hercules and Perseus fought a seven headed dragon? Well mine will too! Hercules walked into Hades and returned? Well mine will too! Hercules outwitted the Devil? Well mine will too! Zeus' son sacrificed himself and returned from the dead only to go to heaven in front of followers? Hey almost all of the god's sons did that one so mine will too! Dionysius changed water to wine? Well my son will too! Horus was betrayed and crucified and was born of a virgin, raised a guy name Lazarus from the dead and is the only way to save your soul and go into heaven? Hey I like that! Hey Jesus! You a gonna do that like that Y'hear?

Awwww Dad! I want to do something different okay?

Shut up son! If it was good enough for Perseus and Hercules it's good enough for you! I gotta send the Holy Spirit with my magic sperm to rape and impregnate a teenage Jewish chick! Eat it Zeus!

Disclaimer: Yahweh sounds like a typical GOP Christian fundamentalist in this example for obvious reasons :)
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Indeed.

If "imagination" was proof?

You could easily send your kid to Hogwarts...
Sharkey

Vallejo, CA

#173546 Aug 5, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Still waiting for one of our Christians to answer why the bible traced the lineage of Joseph if he wasn't Jesus' father... Again messiah claims had to come trough the Father. If Joseph was not the after of Jesus he is disqualified as being a potential messiah and Yahweh would certainly know this as it was his command... If Joseph is his father than the gospels lied about the virgin birth.
So which is it Christians? You can stop cowering any year now.
Common sense tells you that a "virgin birth" is physically impossible because a) you need a human sperm for the egg and

b) a virgin has something called the hymen that sperm cannot fight through without the aid of a penis or some other instrument to break the barrier, like, say, the biblical equivalent of a turkey baster.

The "virgin birth" and "resurrection" stories are the biggest lies that mankind has ever come up with, and it's taking our species to the dead end of self-extinction because we're fighting each other to death over whether an outrageous-sounding story is true!

I HATE HOW THESE LIES...BY humans... ARE WIPING OUT THE FUTURE OF THE HUMAN SPECIES.
LCN Llin

United States

#173547 Aug 5, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah this should be interesting. List them please. And what they ate for breakfast on their 16th birthdays. And how long they slept the night of their 21st birthdays. I won't hold my breath. My point being, my unreasonable request for evidence is every bit as stupid as yours. So ya better get busy cuz I ain't buying it.:)
-givemeliberty- does not cite sources or provide documentation.
You accept his atheism on faith ;-)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#173548 Aug 5, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I know for a fact that they were superstitious. And that does mean that is some cases they cannot tell fact from fiction.
Any competent historian is able to glean information.
<quoted text>
Because we know from other sources and the actual digs at the scene that the Exodus did not happen.
They were nomads in the Dessert. What are you looking to find?
It was an origin legend for that society.
BS. It is written and understood as history. All over the multiple accounts in the Old and repeated by both Josephus and Philo. This is only off the top of my head. I could probably come up with more.
But it was written hundreds of years after it supposedly happened and has many anachronistic aspects in it.
I think you are just regurgitating. You don't seem to be able to comprehend historians glean out information from biased sources and if you don't know that then you don't know much. This is an article pertaining to Hitchens by another atheist. He makes a point here pertinent to this discussion.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/christopher_h...
''This case has been well made by others, if mostly in places far more obscure than Hitchens’s privileged position on the New York Times best-seller list. For example, William J. Hamblin wrote a thorough and admirably restrained review (“The Most Misunderstood Book: Christopher Hitchens on the Bible”) in which he held Hitchens to account for historical howlers of this kind:
In discussing the exodus, Hitchens dogmatically asserts:“There was no flight from Egypt, no wandering in the desert ..., and no dramatic conquest of the Promised Land. It was all, quite simply and very ineptly, made up at a much later date. No Egyptian chronicle mentions this episode either, even in passing.... All the Mosaic myths can be safely and easily discarded.” These narratives can be “easily discarded” by Hitchens only because he has failed to do even a superficial survey of the evidence in favor of the historicity of the biblical traditions. Might we suggest that Hitchens begin with Hoffmeier’s Israel in Egypt and Ancient Israel in Sinai? It should be noted that Hoffmeier’s books were not published by some small evangelical theological press but by Oxford University—hardly a bastion of regressive fundamentalist apologetics. Hitchens’s claim that “no Egyptian chronicle mentions this episode [of Moses and the Israelites] either, even in passing” is simply polemical balderdash.''
Among other things, it seems to be unaware that Egypt controlled the holy lands at the time. The time of David was actually in the time when the texts were written, so is far more likely to be accurate about some types of things.
Yeah the moderns were wrong on David and i can go back and point out were the moderns were wrong on a lot of their assumptions about the Bible. You have the Bible down as guilty until proven innocent and are unable, due to your hopeless bias, look at it objectively.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#173549 Aug 5, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Lol! Well we have just as much secular historical proof for Hogwarts as we have for Jesus.
Well Harry Potter was more original than the Jesus myth which clearly stole from the numerous Hellenistic religions of the region.
It's like one day Yahweh said... Well Sheeeeyoooottt! Why does Zeus get to impregnate virgins and have his son be a savior and I don't? Gotta get on it right now! Hmmm Hercules walked on water? Well my son will too! Hercules and Perseus fought a seven headed dragon? Well mine will too! Hercules walked into Hades and returned? Well mine will too! Hercules outwitted the Devil? Well mine will too! Zeus' son sacrificed himself and returned from the dead only to go to heaven in front of followers? Hey almost all of the god's sons did that one so mine will too! Dionysius changed water to wine? Well my son will too! Horus was betrayed and crucified and was born of a virgin, raised a guy name Lazarus from the dead and is the only way to save your soul and go into heaven? Hey I like that! Hey Jesus! You a gonna do that like that Y'hear?
Awwww Dad! I want to do something different okay?
Shut up son! If it was good enough for Perseus and Hercules it's good enough for you! I gotta send the Holy Spirit with my magic sperm to rape and impregnate a teenage Jewish chick! Eat it Zeus!
Disclaimer: Yahweh sounds like a typical GOP Christian fundamentalist in this example for obvious reasons :)
<quoted text>
This was fan-freakin-tastic!!!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#173550 Aug 5, 2013
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not continue?
Though for much of Christian history the gospel of Matthew has been given primacy that honor actually belongs to the gospel of Mark, the shortest and least sophisticated of the Jesus stories. Mark's literary creation was the starting point for both Matthew and Luke. Of approximately eleven thousand words found in Mark, ninety-five per cent of those words – entire paragraphs and stories in fact – are reused in the gospel of Matthew and sixty-five per cent of them in the gospel of Luke. Contrariwise, where Matthew and Luke differ most from each other – in the nativity and resurrection episodes – it is in material not found and not copied from Mark. Thus, to understand the trajectory by which the Jesus tale developed from an original hero – a righteous man infused by God's holy spirit– through a hybrid god possessing powers, to find final form as God incarnate on earth, one is best advised to begin with Mark's pithy masterpiece.
"Those who affirm him to have been a man, and to have been anointed by election, and then to have become Christ, appear to me to speak more plausibly than you who hold those opinions which you express."
– Trypho to Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, XLIX.
Between the era of the Maccabees and Bar Kochba's war the increasingly radicalized factions of the Jews were animated by an expected warrior/priest who would lead the 'nation of Israel' in triumph. The expectation was thus of someone in the imminent future, no doubt of 'Davidic' or even 'divine' lineage but otherwise, human.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/mark.htm

Why not cite your source. Copy paste?
LCN Llin

United States

#173551 Aug 5, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
This was fan-freakin-tastic!!!
Harry

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#173552 Aug 5, 2013
LCN Llin wrote:
<quoted text>
Harry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =qvgVMecNp0cXX
lol

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#173553 Aug 5, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>So making yourself look like a factually incorrect jackass is your way of making fun of others....... I see you do that often.
Christians lives are built on this dishonesty.
"look like a factually incorrect jackass"

"Christians lives are built on this dishonesty."

Givemeliberty wrote:

I am especially proud of my volunteer work and donations to the humanist cause. Every year I go to the Philippines and spend thousands on food,water, clothing and medicine for the needy there. After a horrific typhoon and flooding there I was there amongst others 14 hours a day handing out supplies, giving life saving injections and treatments to those who lost their home. I stood and watched as homeless children lined up easily 3 miles deep for a package of crackers sandwich fruit and bottle of water. Unwanted children who were born because the Christian ran theocracy light government makes it nearly impossible for a woman to obtain birth control. My wife is in pre-med classes and wants to practice medicine there free to help those poor children. Here in the states I collect donations for running in marathons with the money going to children's charities and cancer or HIV awareness programs.
I have seen first hand time and time again the damage and heart breaking situations brought on by theists. The same theists who come crawling to us to help fix their mess! Oh but while we are fixing it are we thanked? Nope. We barely get the figurative broom in hand and they are shrieking at us for not believing in their imaginary friend.
Honor? I guess it is a relative term. The dozen of urban low income students I assist for free with their biology and pharmaceutical homework at two different colleges locally would probably say good ole KJ is an alright dude.
Now if coming on topix and giving the theists a little taste of backbone, the theists who try to intimidate and silence non believers because they think we should all be meek and humble and tolerate their abuse and repeated logical fallacies makes me vile, Without reason, Disrespectful, In someone's opinion? So be it, hmmm I will chuckle about how vile And disrespectful I am Friday at U of L for the 6 hours I am assisting the students there as a volunteer. Or perhaps this summer as I am passing out thousands of dollars worth of free medicine and other essentials trying to save some more homeless from dying. Yes I was walking by a group of people there and they were huddled together praying loudly and crying. I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water and rushing her to the hospital they stood there holding hands and praying! I grabbed my cell phone and called for an ambulance and started trying to get her to drink. Slowly she sipped the water as the praying continued. The ambulance came after almost an hour and reluctantly took her to the hospital, the paramedic said she was good as dead and best leave it in the hands of Jesus same thing the crowd thought. She died 18 hours later. They didn't even know her name and couldn't figure it out.
I guess I'll somehow deal with being called disrespectful.
<quoted text>

"I semi-retired except for collecting and inspecting my rental properties. I live comfortably off my stock dividends, porn sites I own, early retirement from work and rental properties here in the states and in the Philippines. "

OMG. It's getting better all the time!!!

You're retired except for Porn and your wife is still in school!

Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa
Please stop!!!!

Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!

Liberty wrote:
I am a 32 year old multi-racial man with a Johnson bigger than anyone in your family

Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa
Please stop!!!!

Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!

"if I didn't have the strong secular morals"

Please you've got to be kidding me!

No more I can't take it!

Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa

Please stop!!!!

Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#173554 Aug 5, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"look like a factually incorrect jackass"
"Christians lives are built on this dishonesty."
Givemeliberty wrote:
I am especially proud of my volunteer work and donations to the humanist cause. Every year I go to the Philippines and spend thousands on food,water, clothing and medicine for the needy there. After a horrific typhoon and flooding there I was there amongst others 14 hours a day handing out supplies, giving life saving injections and treatments to those who lost their home. I stood and watched as homeless children lined up easily 3 miles deep for a package of crackers sandwich fruit and bottle of water. Unwanted children who were born because the Christian ran theocracy light government makes it nearly impossible for a woman to obtain birth control. My wife is in pre-med classes and wants to practice medicine there free to help those poor children. Here in the states I collect donations for running in marathons with the money going to children's charities and cancer or HIV awareness programs.
I have seen first hand time and time again the damage and heart breaking situations brought on by theists. The same theists who come crawling to us to help fix their mess! Oh but while we are fixing it are we thanked? Nope. We barely get the figurative broom in hand and they are shrieking at us for not believing in their imaginary friend.
Honor? I guess it is a relative term. The dozen of urban low income students I assist for free with their biology and pharmaceutical homework at two different colleges locally would probably say good ole KJ is an alright dude.
Now if coming on topix and giving the theists a little taste of backbone, the theists who try to intimidate and silence non believers because they think we should all be meek and humble and tolerate their abuse and repeated logical fallacies makes me vile, Without reason, Disrespectful, In someone's opinion? So be it, hmmm I will chuckle about how vile And disrespectful I am Friday at U of L for the 6 hours I am assisting the students there as a volunteer. Or perhaps this summer as I am passing out thousands of dollars worth of free medicine and other essentials trying to save some more homeless from dying. Yes I was walking by a group of people there and they were huddled together praying loudly and crying. I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water and rushing her to the hospital they stood there holding hands and praying! I grabbed my cell phone and called for an ambulance and started trying to get her to drink. Slowly she sipped the water as the praying continued. The ambulance came after almost an hour and reluctantly took her to the hospital, the paramedic said she was good as dead and best leave it in the hands of Jesus same thing the crowd thought. She died 18 hours later. They didn't even know her name and couldn't figure it out.
I guess I'll somehow deal with being called disrespectful.
<quoted text>
"I semi-retired except for collecting and inspecting my rental properties. I live comfortably off my stock dividends, porn sites I own, early retirement from work and rental properties here in the states and in the Philippines. "
OMG. It's getting better all the time!!!
You're retired except for Porn and your wife is still in school!
Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa
Please stop!!!!
Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!
Liberty wrote:
I am a 32 year old multi-racial man with a Johnson bigger than anyone in your family
Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa
Please stop!!!!
Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!
"if I didn't have the strong secular morals"
Please you've got to be kidding me!
No more I can't take it!
Baaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa
Please stop!!!!
Lol BAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA !!!!
Did you turn into a typing sheep by the end of this post? lol

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173555 Aug 5, 2013
I have a question. Why is evolution and Darwinism so important to atheists?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#173556 Aug 5, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
I have a question. Why is evolution and Darwinism so important to atheists?
It's not that it's "so" important, it's that it is a part of the explanation for the present day world, so it's discussed as such. Same reason religious books are important to them.

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