Btw Jews had a very important oral and written history not oral only. Sorry :(
<quoted text>Forgive me for asking, but why dismiss it? I see you attacking a specific portion of my argument, but not the entire argument. I'm just curious as to what was wrong with it that you feel the need to dismiss it out-of-hand without a logical evidential rebuttal.
Givemeliberty wrote, "No western standards have nothing to do with argument whatsoever. The period of time Jesus walked the region is very very well documented."
Yes first century writers did document events. But-
Just how many historical accounts from ancient Palestine do you claim have survived to the present day? What are your sources?
How much (by percentage) of any specific culture can we say was literate with any substantial historical accuracy?
How many cultures were predominantly literary and how many were predominantly oral tradition based cultures?
Have you factored in cultural expectations? If the accounts of what Jesus said are true, then we're looking at a culture that was waiting for His imminent second coming. If they were expecting the Christ to return, then can we expect that they would have written it down so soon after when oral tradition would suffice?
It's been 2,000 years since these accounts started circulating. Papyrus doesn't last forever. Even if they did start writing it down immediately as you seem to believe they were obligated to, what guarantee do we have that they survived? We know that the conquests of Rome, the barbarians, the Ottomans, weren't exactly peaceful.
How many written records have we lost due to natural or man-made disasters? Jerusalem was sacked in 70 A.D. by the Romans. Vesuvius erupted in 79 A.D. So there are two disasters right there that can account for "lost history."
I'm not asking you to answer all of these points I'm raising. I'm raising them to show that I think you're assuming too much without a whole lot of plausible evidence to support your claims.
Givemeliberty wrote, "I know you hate to admit that but guess what? The Jews, Mithra worshipers, Hellenistic people all regularly at the time documented vital information. People have trouble remembering word for word the Ten Commandments but you think they could accurately remember hundreds of thousands of words perfectly? Insanity and we see this clearly as all the variations of the same gospels that we find in ancient scrolls."
Again, you're thinking in modern terms. You're not considering the difference between the way we do things, and the way the ancient cultures did things. Yes the Hellenistic world had its share of brilliant thinkers and writers, but you're comparing the polytheistic pagan cultures with a strict monotheistic culture that was orally dominant. Jewish Rabbis were REQUIRED to memorize the entire Torah before being allowed to comment on any passage. That in itself is a remarkable accomplishment. Our own Western culture doesn't do that, and that's why you doubt that ancient cultures could. That's ethnocentrism.
Givemeliberty wrote, "Jesus according to the NT had rich and highly educated men with him including converted Jews who would have known the importance of documentation."
Why, in a predominantly oral culture, would you assume that somebody was obligated to write about him? What is your basis for making that assumption? That other cultures did? If I write a letter to my congressman, are you also obligated to write a letter to your congressman?
Givemeliberty wrote, "This is why apologetics fail miserably. Critical thinking."
If you give my above points fair consideration, I think you'll see I do think fairly critically. I don't want canned answers any more than you do.