Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

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#172153
Jul 15, 2013
 
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>cry-baby! whay a P**sy
Respect runs deep in this one.
Did you learn your attitude in the church you go to?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172154
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
First off even if the customer was snooty, sense when does two wrongs make a right?
Secondly because he asked for a story with more choices with a attitute, the store own took offense and sent him on a wild goose chase. Not nice.
I would of either told where he could find one, or that I did know of one. I wouldn't of sent him off to learn a lesson for wanting more than what I had, even if he had a attitude.
Yes-- I agree completely. Two evils do not add up to a "good".

Both people were arrogant in the story.

Both offered evil instead of good.

But the customer's evil was a small thing-- some rudeness. He was in the inferior position, having a need.

The store owner offered evil in return--instead of overlooking that small evil, and possibly making a sale. At a nice, profit-- he **was** in the superior position here, having the goods for sale.

He could have been unctuously polite, and double-charged the smartazz-- why not? He had a monopoly on small stores in that area.

He could have done it with a winning smile, knowing full well the nice profit he was making off of a fool.

Now **that** would have been a funny story.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172155
Jul 15, 2013
 
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry I don't see the store own doing anything other than being a smart butt. I say treat people the way you want to be treated.
I agree completely.

I am, rarely, treated rudely. I always simply ask them to have a nice day, and walk away-- certain I do not need to put up with that, but equally certain they need my services more than I need their rudeness.

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172156
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, you have your view, and I have mine.
I interpreted it differently when I heard it.
I tend to look for the good within what seems on the surface to be negative.
There can be no possible **good** from the extremely rude behavior on the part of the store owner.

None.

Did the former-and-now-never-a customer learn anything? Not really-- apart from **never** shopping at that rude store again.

Did the store owner learn anything? No again-- he is **literally** poorer for being a smartazz.

And who knows how many potential customers he lost, by behaving so rudely?

There is **nothing** good in that story. Nothing.
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

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#172157
Jul 15, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. This is often the case.
I think it has something to do with the christian mind set, it can only be what you've been told it is, and nothing can change thier minds.
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

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#172158
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, you have your view, and I have mine.
I interpreted it differently when I heard it.
I tend to look for the good within what seems on the surface to be negative.
So the good you see in your story is the store owner teaching the customer a lesson by acting the same way?

Since: Jul 13

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#172159
Jul 15, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't read Dan Brown-- so I cannot say one way or another.
But you are wrong on at least one point: the group had decided to put Revelations into the apochraphia[sp] group-- but Constantine required an exclusivity clause for his newly-minted religion, so he could justify forcing by violence people to join his new club.
It's on record that Constantine overrode the will of the group in that regard.
So I have no doubts at all, that he also used his force of personality, to override other decisions too.
It does appear Constantine suffered from a massive dose of hubris, after all.
And that rather puts a negative spin on the whole project.
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.

The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.

As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.

We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.

Oh by the way-

With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.

Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

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#172160
Jul 15, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes-- I agree completely. Two evils do not add up to a "good".
Both people were arrogant in the story.
Both offered evil instead of good.
But the customer's evil was a small thing-- some rudeness. He was in the inferior position, having a need.
The store owner offered evil in return--instead of overlooking that small evil, and possibly making a sale. At a nice, profit-- he **was** in the superior position here, having the goods for sale.
He could have been unctuously polite, and double-charged the smartazz-- why not? He had a monopoly on small stores in that area.
He could have done it with a winning smile, knowing full well the nice profit he was making off of a fool.
Now **that** would have been a funny story.
:D
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172161
Jul 15, 2013
 
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
So the good you see in your story is the store owner teaching the customer a lesson by acting the same way?
Yeah... I don't get that either.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172162
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.
The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.
Yes, I remember that it was hotly contested. I also remember that much of the NT was nearly as equally in discussion.

Which, from where I sit, does not speak well for the message it's trying to say.

I expect a message from god, to be.. well, godly.

By that, I mean that the message ought to be so amazingly and obviously divine, that it needs neither an introduction nor an explanation.

Nothing in the bible even comes close.

But that's for another time, I suppose.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

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#172163
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I was, but I've changed myself, thanks for noticing
why do atheist $#&T in their pants?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172164
Jul 15, 2013
 
I deleted your rambling. Cower away because when asked a question you cower away.

I came to my conclusion on the NT based on secular historical findings. When you study the history of the region and time period you see several examples of former messiah son of god, die and raise from the dead 3 days later.

Your titanic example has no merit in this case because they did not wait decades if not over a century to document the tragedy, also we still have eye witnesses to the event yes?

We have documentation from the years Jesus was said to walk the earth in his area about fishing disputes and pottery techniques. Historical documentation of a Roman soldier getting a promotion for Pete's sake... But this guy who rises from the grave bringing hundreds of formerly dead Jewish prophets with him doesn't get noticed?

Hmmmm he must have done it on a busy day at the fish market or during a pottery sale eh?

And yes you have no answer for this, I expect you will cower away or try to change the subject.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Cower away?

Would you please clarify your statement?
<quoted text>
Okay, how did you come to that conclusion?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172165
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Roman Apologist wrote:
With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.
Even as a parable, the story fails. The store owner returned rudeness with even worse rudeness.

At worst, the smartazz would-be customer insulted the store owner and/or his store. Big deal. As a public servant, he ought to be quite used to such boorish behavior by now.

But what he did in return? He caused deliberate harm! He wasted the entire afternoon of the other man, and possibly got him dangerously lost-- could have happened.

All because of his pride.

Two rude behaviors do not a lesson teach.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172166
Jul 15, 2013
 
Hmmm I'll wait for you to be able to factually prove me wrong okay Senile Dave?:)
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am waiting for your diaper to be changed.
You are a little stinky butt.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

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#172167
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.
a male ho like you should smile after gargling a pair

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172168
Jul 15, 2013
 
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.
As do I.

It costs me nothing-- and if they are a bit rude? My smile rubs it in that I'm taking the high road, and they are not.

:D

I'd much rather be a bit smug, as I take the checks to the bank, than to get the dubious "satisfaction" of one-upping a now-former customer...

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172169
Jul 15, 2013
 
Funny how they cringe in fear when you ask them what church they attend eh? Totally ashamed of their church.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>why do you want to know About Bro. Love's traveling salvaction show???

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172170
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
If he was merely judge, then why-- over the objections of nearly everyone there-- why did he railroad Revelations into cannon?

Unless he had an agenda to fulfill....

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172171
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Oh a picture of Jesus!
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you can kiss some of this Christhole (_*_)

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172172
Jul 15, 2013
 
The vote was against revelations being put in the bible... Yes all of the books in your myth were voted on like a top 10 video count down. The words of God voted on and placed in by non believers lol!

And I won't even get into all of the books that were rewritten and heavily edited at the different councils... Oh yes there was more than one.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.
The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.
Oh by the way-
With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.

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