Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#170600 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
Bro. Clownie feels totally sad for those lost and lonely, wandering in the wilderness, heathen, atheists! Those poor souls are drowning in their own intellectual bull$#!+, and are bound to wander in circles not knowing where to go, or, what to do. No direction ... no purpose in life, other than hating believers of God ... nothing to look forward to after their pathetic life on planet Earth expires. Pity! So sad
Except your old buddh Double Fine, right?
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#170602 Jul 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Totally and unequivocally wrong. The closest it can get is bouncing off your head, and it still wouldn't know you.
Music is just pressure waves, just like you are.
The music IS ME, I certainly know myself, they are my ideas generated within me. Sound waves are not a conscious entity, the mind that creates them is.

Your penchant for making idiots statements never ceases. "The music doesn't KNOW you." You really do try way to hard to appear intelligent, in doing so, you actually appear to be a bit off center.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170603 Jul 2, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Those that don't disclose their methods so that they can stand up to the test of replication aren't accepted in the scientific community.
No, modern medicine does NOT claim that the brain only lives 15-30 seconds. Come on and show us which hat you pulled that one out of.
Pamela Reynolds had hallucinations. Period.
People have been revived after being submersed in cold water for up to half an hour. There is a natural reflex that slows the metabolism in such cases. In the Reynolds case, she was cooled for exactly this reason. That is what allowed her to survive the whole procedure. The claim that she was 'brain dead' for an hour is also incorrect. The aneurysm was removed immediately after her brain was drained and then warm blood was supplied. There were difficulties re-starting her heart, but the brain was supplied with blood after a few minutes. This is well within the range allowed by body cooling.

The other thing is a well-established psychological reaction: the brain will 'make up' a story to fill in missing information. This, together with the overall stress to the brain, explains the hallucinations. And yes, such hallucinations will be more and more common as doctors learn how to revive people closer and closer to death. There is even some data that suggests the *type* of medical issue that brings one close to death has a bearing on the type of NDE (positive, negative, some of the experiential details) one has. Also, much of the imagery is culturally determined.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170604 Jul 2, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Except your old buddy Double Fine, right?
You are my ol pal Double, no doubt!

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170605 Jul 2, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
People have been revived after being submersed in cold water for up to half an hour. There is a natural reflex that slows the metabolism in such cases. In the Reynolds case, she was cooled for exactly this reason. That is what allowed her to survive the whole procedure. The claim that she was 'brain dead' for an hour is also incorrect. The aneurysm was removed immediately after her brain was drained and then warm blood was supplied. There were difficulties re-starting her heart, but the brain was supplied with blood after a few minutes. This is well within the range allowed by body cooling.
The other thing is a well-established psychological reaction: the brain will 'make up' a story to fill in missing information. This, together with the overall stress to the brain, explains the hallucinations. And yes, such hallucinations will be more and more common as doctors learn how to revive people closer and closer to death. There is even some data that suggests the *type* of medical issue that brings one close to death has a bearing on the type of NDE (positive, negative, some of the experiential details) one has. Also, much of the imagery is culturally determined.
If the brain can make up stories like that, and the feelings are as real or more real than any other experience, why do you think your conscious rationality is less illusional? Your body is under severe stress at those times. In danger. Survival mode. Your mind should be at its peak, not daydreaming.

No one has responded as to how evolution could produce such a process.
Imhotep

Howey In The Hills, FL

#170606 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>John 14-6
Lame with a capital L!

These are not only much better and decidedly older... but they all mankind will ever need...

"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you." -- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India, circa 3000 BCE

"What is hateful to you, do not to our fellow man. That is entire Law, all the rest is commentary." -- Talmud, Shabbat 31a, from the Judaic tradition, circa 1300 BCE

"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself." -- Avesta, Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5, from the Zoroastrian tradition, circa 600 BCE

"Hurt not others in ways that you find hurtful." -- Tripitaka, Udanga-varga 5,18 , from the Buddhist tradition, circa 525 BCE

"Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness, do not unto others that which you would not have done unto you." -- Analects, Lun-yu XV,23, from the Confucian tradition, circa 500 BCE

"One should treat all beings as he himself would be treated." -- Agamas, Sutrakrtanga 1.10, 1-3, from the Jain tradition, circa 500 BCE

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your gain and your neighbor's loss as your loss." -- Tai-shang Kang-ying P'ien, from the Taoist tradition, circa 500 BCE

"Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." -- Socrates (the Greek philosopher), circa 470-399 BCE

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170607 Jul 2, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Lame with a capital L!
These are not only much better and decidedly older... but they all mankind will ever need...
"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you." -- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India, circa 3000 BCE
"What is hateful to you, do not to our fellow man. That is entire Law, all the rest is commentary." -- Talmud, Shabbat 31a, from the Judaic tradition, circa 1300 BCE
"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself." -- Avesta, Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5, from the Zoroastrian tradition, circa 600 BCE
"Hurt not others in ways that you find hurtful." -- Tripitaka, Udanga-varga 5,18 , from the Buddhist tradition, circa 525 BCE
"Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness, do not unto others that which you would not have done unto you." -- Analects, Lun-yu XV,23, from the Confucian tradition, circa 500 BCE
"One should treat all beings as he himself would be treated." -- Agamas, Sutrakrtanga 1.10, 1-3, from the Jain tradition, circa 500 BCE
"Regard your neighbor's gain as your gain and your neighbor's loss as your loss." -- Tai-shang Kang-ying P'ien, from the Taoist tradition, circa 500 BCE
"Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." -- Socrates (the Greek philosopher), circa 470-399 BCE
I was quoting the HOLY WORD OF GOD! not some jumbo-mumbo atheist are very dumb!!!!! you chumps use no logic
Favorite Adversary

Brooklyn, NY

#170608 Jul 2, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Those that don't disclose their methods so that they can stand up to the test of replication aren't accepted in the scientific community.
No, modern medicine does NOT claim that the brain only lives 15-30 seconds. Come on and show us which hat you pulled that one out of.
Pamela Reynolds had hallucinations. Period.
How did she have hallucinations with NO brain activity for an hour?

Care to answer that?

Your use of the word "period" indicates emotional discomfort. Your opinion is final only because of your emotional discomfort in considering that this may have really happened.

Dr. Long has shared his methodologies with others who conduct the same research even if they come to different conclusions. It's the general public that is not made aware of the control measures. What you really mean is that YOU think YOU'RE entitled to know what those measures are. If you're conducting research that is subject to manipulation, isn't it wise to keep control measures within a specific "need-to-know" format so they can't be manipulated by those who have ulterior motives?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170609 Jul 2, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
How did she have hallucinations with NO brain activity for an hour?
The actual period when the brain was not perfused and without activity was a few minutes, not a full hour.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170610 Jul 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If the brain can make up stories like that, and the feelings are as real or more real than any other experience, why do you think your conscious rationality is less illusional? Your body is under severe stress at those times. In danger. Survival mode. Your mind should be at its peak, not daydreaming.
It *can't* be at its peak because it doesn't have the fuel required. Oxygen is needed to restore the ATP needed to run the system. The feelings and story were made up *after* the period of inactivity and 'filled in'. We know the brain does such 'filling in' in many situations, producing 'memories' that are out of order of the actual events.
No one has responded as to how evolution could produce such a process.
I doubt it was produced by evolutionary pressures. The release of endorphins in response to pain has a definite evolutionary effect: it makes the pain recede for a while, allowing focus on survival. The side effect is the hallucinations from the opiods. In the case of NDEs, the story comes from the 'tunnel vision' produced by anoxia and cultural expectations that are filled in later.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#170611 Jul 2, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Did you get back from Northants "pneu intact"?
<quoted text>
Yes thanks, I donít have Pirelli tyres.

Massaís blew right in front of me (about 50 feet) it was frightening, I really canít imagine how the drivers felt at close on 200MPH. I once had a blow out at 70 and that was bad enough.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#170612 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Aww, the poor lost soul, Christine having to partner up with the UK queer (thinking)/dork to do battle with Clownie the Anointed. You two wilderness wanderers will have trouble coming up with a complete sentence, much less something that is intelligent. Now, be careful you two don't start walking in circles and end up dying of vertigo. Talk about the blind leading the blind! LMAO!!!
Anointed in what, fresh bullsh|t

Stop projecting, neither of us are christian so we donít do circles while hoping that next time round we'll get a different answer, that is entirely your domain.

Yes I suppose it does take real village idiot stupidity to laugh as yourself as much as you do

“1000 Sting of Scorpion to you”

Since: Feb 07

Jurassic, Indiana

#170613 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>He sounds like a cool guy!
Hey, Clown Ö my identical twin brother, Artie the Anointed, says he will definitely drop in on this thread. He said he's been searching for the Topix thread that had the most brain dead atheist heathens. He should be here in a couple of days! Currently, the Anointed One, is buying fire extinguishers to give FREE of charge to the pathetic atheists who are heading straight to hell. He said he would have waited until those poor fools were on their death beds, crying out to God for forgiveness ... but, he has to expedite that mission, because the atheist's pants are already on fire! ;)
Favorite Adversary

Brooklyn, NY

#170614 Jul 2, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The actual period when the brain was not perfused and without activity was a few minutes, not a full hour.
During the BBC interview, the neurosurgeon says the surgery lasted for an hour and that ALL brain activity was brought to a halt before the surgery could even begin. An experienced neurosurgeon who was there certainly knows more than you and I, especially when we were NOT there.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#170615 Jul 2, 2013
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Thinking about Jesus is all you do. You hate Him all day long. That is why you will be in your Hell after you're dead, burning and suffering for eternity.
You're not fooling anyone.
Just putting in my two cents:
Let me get this straight:
The supposed Christian "God" has no problem with allowing child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc....into Heaven with nothing more than saying "forgive me".
YET, Critical thinkers will burn in hell for eternity...suffering?
You buy that crap? You AGREE with that crap?
Honestly...is that a God worth worshipping?

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#170616 Jul 2, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
It *can't* be at its peak because it doesn't have the fuel required. Oxygen is needed to restore the ATP needed to run the system. The feelings and story were made up *after* the period of inactivity and 'filled in'. We know the brain does such 'filling in' in many situations, producing 'memories' that are out of order of the actual events.
<quoted text>
I doubt it was produced by evolutionary pressures. The release of endorphins in response to pain has a definite evolutionary effect: it makes the pain recede for a while, allowing focus on survival. The side effect is the hallucinations from the opiods. In the case of NDEs, the story comes from the 'tunnel vision' produced by anoxia and cultural expectations that are filled in later.
How can you focus on survival when you are knocked out cold? Why would this pain deaden you while you drift off to death?

You say there is fill in. Yes, there is to a degree after you regain consciousness, but your brain is working during that period, and in an orderly fashion for a lump of meat. Plus you have to have stored input to be played back in that reconstruction. It doesn't get stored unless something controls that. Reference what I said earlier about mirror images.

If your brain can reconstruct after an event like that then you are in a constant state of delusion. Your belief in "reality" is one of those.

This is too complex to discuss on a place like this, but you must understand I went through the experience, and from reading my posts it is quite apparent I don't believe in poofs or magic and can get into serious detail in analyzing how something happens. You are trained to follow a logic. I was trained to understand logics and how they originated. Those examples you give are extremely simplified block type thinking that are nothing more than rationalizations for not being able to get into the details of how such could occur. The fact is there is order and a certain coherency to those events that can't happen on such a consistent basis purely from action/reaction of molecules. There is an unseen direction to the interaction of those molecules.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170617 Jul 2, 2013
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>Just putting in my two cents:
Let me get this straight:
The supposed Christian "God" has no problem with allowing child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc....into Heaven with nothing more than saying "forgive me".
YET, Critical thinkers will burn in hell for eternity...suffering?
You buy that crap? You AGREE with that crap?
Honestly...is that a God worth worshipping?
I struggle with this too. I'm related to someone who molested a lot of children and destroyed many, many lives. This "person" became a christian on his deathbed. I have a hard time believing that he would have anything to contribute to heaven. Either way, maybe these types of people never make it into any sort of afterlife? Since it's really not up to them to decide anyway.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#170618 Jul 2, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
During the BBC interview, the neurosurgeon says the surgery lasted for an hour and that ALL brain activity was brought to a halt before the surgery could even begin. An experienced neurosurgeon who was there certainly knows more than you and I, especially when we were NOT there.
Actually the surgery lasted 7 hours, From 7:15am to 2:40pm. The brain activity was brought to a halt at 11:05, and then brain begins to respond at 11:20 (a mere 15 minutes)
There is a very clear timeline of the surgery on multiple medical sites.
I say hallucination, with effects from anesthesia.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#170619 Jul 2, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
I struggle with this too. I'm related to someone who molested a lot of children and destroyed many, many lives. This "person" became a christian on his deathbed. I have a hard time believing that he would have anything to contribute to heaven. Either way, maybe these types of people never make it into any sort of afterlife? Since it's really not up to them to decide anyway.
Great post!
The reality is...no one knows.
That's why I am Agnostic.
Maybe there is an "afterlife"???
I say, does there really have to be a GOD to experience an afterlife, or other dimensions?
Not really.
Maybe there is an afterlife, or other dimensions, without a GOD.
Maybe there is a God, without other dimensions, or an afterlife?
I love Critical thinking....

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#170620 Jul 2, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
During the BBC interview, the neurosurgeon says the surgery lasted for an hour and that ALL brain activity was brought to a halt before the surgery could even begin. An experienced neurosurgeon who was there certainly knows more than you and I, especially when we were NOT there.
I would have to add that an experienced Neurosurgeon that was THERE (or at ANY brain surgery for that matter) would know there isn't a brain surgery in history that only lasted an hour.
You might be mistaken with what you've heard the Neurosurgeon say on BBC.
no biggie :D

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