Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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159,101 - 159,120 of 226,341 Comments Last updated 1 hr ago

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#165684 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Nope. It is mechanical, actually. In other words, a serious of events and reactions. No intent, no accident, no randomness, you are just so uneducated you cannot understand what I mean when I say that it is not accidental, random, or intentional.
Oh I see, Richard Dawkins argument.

The universe is a clock that wound itself up and then let go.

How does something that does not exist wind itself up?

Don't you find that just a tad circular?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#165685 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You have presented an arbitrary claim with no reasoning to support it.
You claim atheism is the produce of logic.
But you fail to identify what produced logic.
Every time I ask you to address this, you assert an opinion without a reasoned basis for that opinion.
As to your last point, I have no idea what you are referring to.
So, since you have nothing that is not circular logic, you expect everything to be circular logic and won't accept anything that is not.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#165686 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
My awareness of absolute morality is derived from what God has revealed.
You agree you are aware of ethical standards, but deny God, so you cannot account for them.
From where do you derive your absolute moral standards?
Atheism has no basis for absolute moral standards, it is morally bankrupt.
If you disagree show me the safe with the money...
Show me where you get absolute morality from.
So you think "absolute morality" exists and that it says killing children who "back talk" is a good idea. That's sick dude.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#165687 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I see, Richard Dawkins argument.
The universe is a clock that wound itself up and then let go.
How does something that does not exist wind itself up?
Don't you find that just a tad circular?
You are forcing circular reasoning again. No one made that claim but you.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165688 May 18, 2013
I spent summers with my great grandfather James, he raised and sold award winning dogs. His grandfather Homer was a sailor as well as Michael his great grandfather.

I could go on about their wives, children and more of my family tree if you wish.

So after humiliating yourself again, how can you possibly know what the future will hold for my atheist friends? How can you possibly know if they will be remembered or not? Regardless this is meaningless one way or the other.

Who was the local administrator of your church 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 200 years ago? Hell 20 years ago? Lol!

And again before you say his remembers them, you must demonstrate observable evidence there is a god before you can even attempt to assign attributes and deeds to him.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>What was the name of your great grand father?

What was the name of his great grand father?

I doubt you know or can even confirm that without doing some serious research.

Which of course validates the point I am making.

The rest of your post was mere prejudicial opinion and therefore not worth a logical response...

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165689 May 18, 2013
All you do is express your opinion. You have no facts.

We know you want to think some sky daddy does all these wonderful things because it comforts you much as the concept Santa Claus comforts a child. Any of your opinions and apologetic arguments could also be made for the existence of Santa.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>You claim this but cannot account for reason itself.

You have also once again failed to present a reasonable argument, instead confusing your opinion as a logical argument.

There is a distinct difference between the two, asserting an opinion is not an exercise in logic...

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165690 May 18, 2013
Stalin is the leader of Sweden?

Wow you are really ignorant if you think that.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>Stalin was a pacifist?

You also display little humanism (unless humanism is a lack of tolerance of non humanists), and your aggressive name calling also refutes your claim.

Your general attitude reveals the true nature of your beliefs.

Which is an attitude of intolerance and aggression against those that disagree with you.

You might wear the tee shirt but your actions reveal your true position.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165691 May 18, 2013
Again there is no atheistic world view. Atheism deals with one and only one thing and that's not believing in a god.

Most atheists have a secular humanist world view.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>It has not been answered, how do you account for a sense of purpose from an atheistic worldview?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165692 May 18, 2013
Christianity says a murderer can be rewarded in heaven whole his victims are tortured in hell. Certainly it would be difficult to find a worse worldview yes?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>Gods existence is self evident, your need to borrow from the Christian worldview to make your arguments is one evidence.

The other is your antagonism towards God who you assert does not exist.

Your behaviour refutes your argument.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165693 May 18, 2013
Yes you are rehashing what you humiliated yourself with last time.

Again you cannot assign attributes and deeds to a god until you can demonstrate there is even a god there to assign them to.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>You are an atheist, upon what absolute moral position do you judge morality with?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#165694 May 18, 2013
Oh yes he will run away from that like fire! He wants to say his god is this absolute moral being yet refuses to discuss the atrocities his god committed.
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>So you think "absolute morality" exists and that it says killing children who "back talk" is a good idea. That's sick dude.
Imhotep

Orlando, FL

#165695 May 18, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> That was to Lincoln. I guess he is not the sort of person I would like to see using the name Lincoln. I do not like the discussions that are full of such backandforth hostility, and have found a more intelligent and kindhearted thread. I would like to know whether you prefer hostile argument, or nuanced discussion with wise folks? I would also invite you to state your own views directly. I am an agnostic athiest. I am hostile to the extreme right-wing of most religions, and also of right-wing non-religious dogmatic ideologues. By rightwing I mean pro-war and unkind in policies. so, where do you stand? and which type of discussion do you prefer?
Which type of discussion?
Interesting provocative informative!

I am a secular humanist.
I was never exposed religion at any time of my life. My parents were irreligious.
I am ultraliberal, smoke pot, detest bigotry in any form and see all people as having value not just a select few.

Does this answer your questions? ;)

I make plenty of political comments but I don't vote.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#165696 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
My awareness of absolute morality is derived from what God has revealed.
You agree you are aware of ethical standards, but deny God, so you cannot account for them.
From where do you derive your absolute moral standards?
Atheism has no basis for absolute moral standards, it is morally bankrupt.
If you disagree show me the safe with the money...
Show me where you get absolute morality from.
Show me an example of absolute morality. I'd like to see one. Please save us both some font tho'- by be sure it is absolutely "Absolute" prior to response. Thanks, this could change my life.

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#165697 May 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Again. How do you know those prayers aren't answered?
A: You don't. You assume.
Enlighten us. Where do we find proof those prayers were answered? I've looked everywhere "I thought".

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165698 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is killing wrong when the stronger survive there is no basis in atheism for this to be wrong.
You claim it is sad, but why is it sad?
In your worldview, survival of the fittest is the only thing that matters, sadness is irrelevant.
It reflects quite poorly upon you that you can't possibly imagine why it would be wrong to take a life in the absence of an eternal punishment/reward for your behavior on earth. That is astounding.

Also, you make the mistake of assuming that the TOE requires it's "believers" to make moral decisions based on the notion of "survival of the fittest." That is absurd.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165699 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it advantageous to ensure our genes continue to descend and to who?
The universe doesn't care.
And the rest of the animal kingdom would benefit from our demise.
Your ancestors won't care who they got their genes from, in a few generations the wont even remember you.
The success of the human race in the atheistic worldview is irrelevant as according to atheism itself, it will disappear at some point as it becomes the next victim of evolutionary processes...
So looking at atheism, there is no real purpose to atheism, it cannot account for the sense of purpose each human has...
Atheism does not attempt to "account for the sense of purpose that each human has." Atheism is not a philosophy or a religion - it is simply a lack of belief in deities. Your post is rendered completely nonsensical by this simple misunderstanding.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165700 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
What's your point?
Atheism demands that suffering be an essential part of evolutionary progress, so upon what absolute moral basis do you condemn this version of God you present?
Why would you care and upon what basis do you justify the moral position of caring.
Atheism does not demand anything of the TOE. Again, you are making nonsensical errors.

My point is that your god - an "all powerful, merciful, loving being," is completely devoid of even a mote of compassion for his creations.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165701 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you derive meaning from an atheistic worldview?
You criticise but fail to account for meaning.
Isn't that a reflection on your own psyche?:-)
Atheism does not attempt to provide meaning. Why do you keep making these basic mistakes?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165702 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely, a sense of purpose itself requires an explanation of its existence, are you arguing that it doesn't?
I am arguing that an external agent is not required to explain our "sense of purpose" or our morality.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#165703 May 18, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not understood the point I suspect.
I am not arguing that you do not have a sense of meaning.
I am pointing out that you cannot account for a sense of meaning.
To have meaning requires your existence to be intentional, if you are merely one of the universes accidents, then their is no rational basis for your sense of meaning and purpose.
Your worldview cannot account for your inherent sense of meaning...
You are making completely baseless assumptions. Our "sense of meaning" does not require our existence to be intentional - you have no proof of this assertion.

Again, atheism does not attempt to "account for [my] inherent sense of meaning and purpose."

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