Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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#153268
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>And what of those who do NOT reject God but also suffer?
No one "permits" free will. Free will from the point of a Theists is an illusion, for you there is NO free will. Your God is omnipotent, he knows everything, there is nothing that he cannot know. Therefore he knows exactly what you will do. Your pathway is already determined. You think that by taking a right instead of a left is an example of free will, but God knew you would turn right. You can't do anything other than what God has predetermined for you. NO FREE WILL.
God also knew that Eve would taste of the apple from the tree of knowledge, he knew it but punisher her and all of mankind for all times. God also knew that Jesus could never really die, he offered him up as a sacrifice knowing he would rise from the dead and become as God. What kind of a sacrifice is that, and you Theists fell for it. Histories biggest hoax, and you people think it was a sacrifice. LOL
You are a chemical fizz, an idea that a rock had one day.

How do you account for the concept of free will?

As to "free will" as a discussion, that might be interesting, but I haven't stated my position yet, so not sure what exactly it is you are arguing against?

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#153269
Feb 11, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there another way to say it? What is the process, that your god say that you must do, to cure leprosy?
You refuse to answer because you know that it is absurd bullshit written by idiots who believed in magic.
I have already dealt with this in one sense.

But your premise is flawed anyway.

Your assumption that the instructions given in the Bible regarding leprosy is the only way to cure leprosy, is a false one.

The Bible does not state the strawman you are presenting.

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#153270
Feb 11, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt that we are going nowhere! From most reports, Atheism is growing very rapidly. I am guessing that the internet, with forums like this, is one of the main reasons.
No, the main reason is that the secular schools no longer teach kids how to think, but rather what to think.

As can be evidenced on this board by the constant anger against the attacks on secular religion and anti-theism on this board.

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#153271
Feb 11, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare,'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?

Seriously.

Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.

Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?

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#153272
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Well stated.
A person needs to be illogical to be religious.
A person needs to believe in superstition to be religious.
Modern day Neanderthals.
Actually, a person needs to be illogical to be an atheist.

Case in point:

There is no effect that wasn't caused.

Atheistic response:

Yes there was, something was always there, never seen it, don't know what it is, don't know where it came from, but it definitely wasn't the Christian God...

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#153273
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>That's because everyday people are wising up and getting smarter. No time for fairy tales just because someone "told you" to believe them.
http://theweek.com/article/index/226625/the-r...
A product of an education system that suppresses the truth, is not a product that is smarter...

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#153274
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So are you saying your God is NOT omnipotent, and omniscient? An omniscient God KNOWS everything including what will happen in the future, correct? Either your God is ALL KNOWING,,,,ALL POWERFUL or he's not. Are you saying there are certain limitations that God has? He can't know of future events?
That God can see all the events in time, does not mean that He has removed choice in time...

A then B
C therefore X

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#153275
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
So you were humiliated on the absolute argument and have switched to the laws of logic one? That is even older and many creationists even have said that is a poor choice to use now. The laws of logic argument is childish because you the user of I change the rules as need be to fit your argument. It's weak and childish.
What next? Look at the pretty trees because that shows there is a god?
:sigh:
<quoted text>
The argument for the absolute laws of logic is a subset of the argument for absolutes.

And the argument of absolutes is basically the argument for truth.

Can you account for the concept of "truth"?

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#153276
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Yes your post is very illogical. Secular morality always strives to progress and improve whereas your bible morality says slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword is ideal, these are your absolute morality, unless you are saying te bible deity is wrong?
<quoted text>
If you lived back in the dark ages and it was a moral imperative that the majority of society had decided on, to accept the world was flat, would you accept the world was flat?

1. If you did, then you are just a sheep who follows the herd.
2. If you did not, then you are acting immorally according to your own argument.

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#153277
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Hey gang watch as I make him dodge the question and cower away.
Hey can you us this secular historical evidence for Jesus? Do provide this please.
It's ok dodge and run away as we all know you will.
<quoted text>
It is not a matter of evidence.

Evidence will never convince you.

So why give you more evidence.

You are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in suppressing the truth.

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#153278
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?
delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :
You forget you are spinning in circles while doing so.

That can get you a little dizzy.

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#153279
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Yes your sky wizard myth is childish. Your rock story I have never heard of, some strange gnostic Christian tribe maybe penned that? You will need to show a link to humans came out of a rock.
<quoted text>
They call it abiogenesis.

I can get you a link if you want, it is a part of evolutionary theory, that many evolutionists get embarrassed about and try to deny it is actually a part of the theory.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#153280
Feb 11, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?
Seriously.
Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.
Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?
Atheism is a category which includes everybody who is not in the category theism.

Atheism is NOT a "worldview" any more that theism is. Doesn't matter how many time you present this strawman, it's still wrong.

The Humanistic worldview is guided by reason and inspired by compassion. It has evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

Humanism recognizes that ethical values (morals) are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare.

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#153281
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
What caused god?
The First Cause has to be eternal, even your atheist buddies here know that.

That is why one of them is currently arguing for an infinite regress...

They just want the caused to be eternal, because they cannot accept the First Cause to be eternal.

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#153282
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
We have secular proof for Pilate and many Pharaohs but zero for Jesus and Moses. Josephus and Tacitus both wrote several times about Hercules so are you saying he existed?
The Josephus Jesus passage btw was forged into his work centuries later.
Outside the bible we have zero historical proof for Jesus or Moses. These are the stone cold facts. I know you don't like them but that doesn't change them.
So your bible god condones and even orders slavery, rape, genocide and putting every infant to the sword. Are these moral actions?
<quoted text>
Interesting that the only cultural and historical documentation you will not accept is the Christian one.

Why is that do you think?

“ecrasez l'infame”

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#153283
Feb 11, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, a person needs to be illogical to be an atheist.
Case in point:
There is no effect that wasn't caused.
Atheistic response:
Yes there was, something was always there, never seen it, don't know what it is, don't know where it came from, but it definitely wasn't the Christian God...
In order to use the "first cause" argument, you would have to prove that everything has a cause. Modern physics has proven that it doesn't, therefore the entire "first cause" argument is bogus to begin with.

In order to argue that a "deity caused everything" you would need to provide a foundation for your claim that a deity does in fact exist. Then you would have to further show evidence that it was your particular version of a deity that caused everything.

You have never even tried to show any evidence of your first premise. You simply make the claim and expect everybody to just take your word for it.

“ecrasez l'infame”

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#153284
Feb 11, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already dealt with this in one sense.
But your premise is flawed anyway.
Your assumption that the instructions given in the Bible regarding leprosy is the only way to cure leprosy, is a false one.
The Bible does not state the strawman you are presenting.
Quite simply - In Leviticus 14 does the Bible make any kind of statement about any cure for leprosy? Does this stated cure work?

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#153285
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Adam wrote:
It has been about a year since I deconverted. I had a realisation yesterday. Kind of obvious really. But the idea fundies have that nearly everyone will burn in eternal hell fire is completely insane and truly evil. Fundies are psychopaths and very sick people. To say you are saved is actually to admit that you are a psycho.
I am beginning to rethink whether people I knew at church actually believed this stuff, or just paid lip service to it. Cause its frightening that any person today could actually believe in the eternal torture of the damned. You are fed only half a story.
Not all Christians accept this.

I for one reject it.

Hell is an event at the 3rd coming of Christ, where those that refused to be seperated from sin, are destroyed once and for all.

It misrepresents Gods character to say He will burn someone for ever.

The second death will be bad enough for those that have already died once.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#153286
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a very good article, which explains the issue fully.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_c...
That doesn't explain why there's an apparent contradiction...

Do you always & only rely on atheist propaganda websites for your "education" in this regard?

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#153287
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?
delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget you are spinning in circles while doing so.
That can get you a little dizzy.
A little tip.

"Before you attempt your pirouette, pick out an object in front of you to focus your eyes on. If you are forced to spot a mirror, try sticking a small piece of blue tape on the mirror in front of you, at eye level.

Focus on your spot as you begin your pirouette. Keep your eyes focused on the spot as long as you can and then at the last second, snap your head around to allow your eyes to quickly relocate the spot. Spotting this way will also help keep your head in perfect alignment with the rest of your body."

http://dance.about.com/od/adultdancers/qt/Tip...

That means you have to look beyond yourself.

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