Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#153278 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?
delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :
You forget you are spinning in circles while doing so.

That can get you a little dizzy.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153279 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yes your sky wizard myth is childish. Your rock story I have never heard of, some strange gnostic Christian tribe maybe penned that? You will need to show a link to humans came out of a rock.
<quoted text>
They call it abiogenesis.

I can get you a link if you want, it is a part of evolutionary theory, that many evolutionists get embarrassed about and try to deny it is actually a part of the theory.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153280 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?
Seriously.
Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.
Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?
Atheism is a category which includes everybody who is not in the category theism.

Atheism is NOT a "worldview" any more that theism is. Doesn't matter how many time you present this strawman, it's still wrong.

The Humanistic worldview is guided by reason and inspired by compassion. It has evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

Humanism recognizes that ethical values (morals) are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153281 Feb 11, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
What caused god?
The First Cause has to be eternal, even your atheist buddies here know that.

That is why one of them is currently arguing for an infinite regress...

They just want the caused to be eternal, because they cannot accept the First Cause to be eternal.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153282 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
We have secular proof for Pilate and many Pharaohs but zero for Jesus and Moses. Josephus and Tacitus both wrote several times about Hercules so are you saying he existed?
The Josephus Jesus passage btw was forged into his work centuries later.
Outside the bible we have zero historical proof for Jesus or Moses. These are the stone cold facts. I know you don't like them but that doesn't change them.
So your bible god condones and even orders slavery, rape, genocide and putting every infant to the sword. Are these moral actions?
<quoted text>
Interesting that the only cultural and historical documentation you will not accept is the Christian one.

Why is that do you think?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153283 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, a person needs to be illogical to be an atheist.
Case in point:
There is no effect that wasn't caused.
Atheistic response:
Yes there was, something was always there, never seen it, don't know what it is, don't know where it came from, but it definitely wasn't the Christian God...
In order to use the "first cause" argument, you would have to prove that everything has a cause. Modern physics has proven that it doesn't, therefore the entire "first cause" argument is bogus to begin with.

In order to argue that a "deity caused everything" you would need to provide a foundation for your claim that a deity does in fact exist. Then you would have to further show evidence that it was your particular version of a deity that caused everything.

You have never even tried to show any evidence of your first premise. You simply make the claim and expect everybody to just take your word for it.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153284 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already dealt with this in one sense.
But your premise is flawed anyway.
Your assumption that the instructions given in the Bible regarding leprosy is the only way to cure leprosy, is a false one.
The Bible does not state the strawman you are presenting.
Quite simply - In Leviticus 14 does the Bible make any kind of statement about any cure for leprosy? Does this stated cure work?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153285 Feb 11, 2013
Adam wrote:
It has been about a year since I deconverted. I had a realisation yesterday. Kind of obvious really. But the idea fundies have that nearly everyone will burn in eternal hell fire is completely insane and truly evil. Fundies are psychopaths and very sick people. To say you are saved is actually to admit that you are a psycho.
I am beginning to rethink whether people I knew at church actually believed this stuff, or just paid lip service to it. Cause its frightening that any person today could actually believe in the eternal torture of the damned. You are fed only half a story.
Not all Christians accept this.

I for one reject it.

Hell is an event at the 3rd coming of Christ, where those that refused to be seperated from sin, are destroyed once and for all.

It misrepresents Gods character to say He will burn someone for ever.

The second death will be bad enough for those that have already died once.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#153286 Feb 11, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a very good article, which explains the issue fully.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_c...
That doesn't explain why there's an apparent contradiction...

Do you always & only rely on atheist propaganda websites for your "education" in this regard?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#153287 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?
delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget you are spinning in circles while doing so.
That can get you a little dizzy.
A little tip.

"Before you attempt your pirouette, pick out an object in front of you to focus your eyes on. If you are forced to spot a mirror, try sticking a small piece of blue tape on the mirror in front of you, at eye level.

Focus on your spot as you begin your pirouette. Keep your eyes focused on the spot as long as you can and then at the last second, snap your head around to allow your eyes to quickly relocate the spot. Spotting this way will also help keep your head in perfect alignment with the rest of your body."

http://dance.about.com/od/adultdancers/qt/Tip...

That means you have to look beyond yourself.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#153288 Feb 11, 2013
Adam wrote:
A few key points:
They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was.
Matthew 1:16

and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153289 Feb 11, 2013
Adam wrote:
A few key points:
They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was.
Long after Matthew and Luke wrote the genealogies the church invented (or more likely borrowed from the mystery religions) the doctrine of the virgin birth.
Of all the writers of the New Testament, only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth.
1. The gospel writers contradict each other.
2. The gospel writers rewrote history when it suited their purposes.
3. The gospels were extensively edited to accommodate the evolving dogma of the church.
4. The gospel writers misused the Old Testament to provide prophecies for Jesus to fulfill.
Seriously, this stuff is kindergarten stuff.

A simple examination of the counter arguments would resolve these.

Its not worth bringing up here, go read some websites that deal with it, is my suggestion.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#153290 Feb 11, 2013
Adam wrote:
The obvious conclusions.
1. The Bible is not the word of God.
2. Christianity is based on the Bible, so is not an inspired religion.
3. The evidence shows religions are man made and in the mind.
Obvious?!?

Yes, it's obvious that atheists spend a whole lot of time on a religion and a God they claim to not believe in.

What's wrong? Worried about your afterlife? You wanna be able to tell God that you always hoped He was real?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153291 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the main reason is that the secular schools no longer teach kids how to think, but rather what to think.
As can be evidenced on this board by the constant anger against the attacks on secular religion and anti-theism on this board.
Although it is refreshingly honest of you to admit that you are in fact "attacking" people on this forum. I

t is also telling that you can't understand why your attacks might not be welcome here.

I think part of your problem is a lack of understanding and fear of those who think differently from you. Case in point is your reference to "secular religion" when the word "secular" itself is the state of being separate from religion.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153292 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?
Seriously.
Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.
Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?
Are you saying you think Exodus 21:2-6 and 20-21 are examples of good morals?

Or are you just trying to deflect the conversation?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153293 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a matter of evidence.
Evidence will never convince you.
So why give you more evidence.
You are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in suppressing the truth.
You've never given any evidence to begin with.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153294 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you pointing to Bells theorem of inequality as empirical evidence?
The experiments showing Bell's inequalities fail in the real world are empirical, yes. The fact that they are required in a causal system depends on your definition of a causal system.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153295 Feb 11, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is a category which includes everybody who is not in the category theism.
Atheism is NOT a "worldview" any more that theism is. Doesn't matter how many time you present this strawman, it's still wrong.
The Humanistic worldview is guided by reason and inspired by compassion. It has evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.
Humanism recognizes that ethical values (morals) are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare.
So account for absolute standards of morality, by which you define subjective morality...

You cannot seem to grasp this most basic concept.

It would baffle me, if I did not know why...

Absolute morality requires an intelligent First Cause.

You don't want that, so you think the Herd should set morality...

Problem there is, that once you set that as the standard, you can never complain about any standard of morality anywhere, as the Herds opinion is just that, an opinion.

It is not right or wrong, good or bad.

You argue subjective morality, and then appeal to objective morality to prove your point...

Denying Christianity, whilst borrowing from Christianity to make your argument.

A pickpocket of morality...:-)

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#153296 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are arguing for an infinite regress.
Yes/no?
No, although it is a possibility, that was not my argument. Read it again.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#153297 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>From Universe Today
How do scientists determine the age of a meteorite? Mainly by studying the minerals found within them, lead isotopes to be specific. Uranium has been found to decay into certain isotopes of lead on a predictable schedule. Uranium235 will decay into the isotope Lead207 every 7.13×108 years and is used in radiometric dating. Scientist also know that uranium238 will decay into Lead206 every 4.468×109(4.468 billion) years. The presence of the lead daughter isotopes gives scientists a clue into the age of a meteorite.
A relatively large number of meteorites have been found on Earth. Each has been tested along with various rocks that are original to our planet. Samples from the Moon were tested as well. The results all show an approximate age of 4.6 billion years. That has led scientist to state that all of the material(this includes planets) in the Solar System is 4.6 billion years old. So, by extrapolation, the answer to ”how old is Mars?” is 4.6 billion years old.
I'm going to have to start charging you the education I'm providing for you, since it appears your too lazy to learn o your own. I'll be nice this time....no charge!!!
Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/14852/how-old-is...
Thank you. From your own link, dumb ass:

"Today, scientists believe that Mars, and the remainder of the Solar System formed about 4.6 billion years ago from the solar nebula."

Oh good, they BELIEVE.

"Since no one has ever retrieved a piece of Martian rock for study, this assumption is arrived at by studying meteorites..."

As I said, it's an assumption. Nothing more.

Thanks again, duder.

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