Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jan 13

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#153262 Feb 11, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
You haven't shown there *is* a first cause: to do that, you have to first show there isn't an infinite regress of causes and *then* show that any two events have a common cause. Neither has been shown and both are unlikely.
I have to disprove a negative so that you can accept a positive?

What is interesting, is that here you are denying causality needs a first cause, at the same time as you deny Creation needs a God.

Do you think there might be a link there?

But then, you are so busy suppressing the obvious, I doubt you will even accept that this is the letter A:

A
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#153263 Feb 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your personal delusions gained from being propelled through time and space faster than you can see does?
That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?

delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#153264 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>You really don't see the difference do you!! The difference between accepting what hard working scientist have discovered, and Theists who's best evidence is personal delusional experiences. I've asked you this before, but don't think you answered. Do you "blindly trust" medical science when you have a serious Illness? I believe you are the one who also mistrusts doctors. So your choices would be, seek medical help or stay home and pray, which one would you chose?
As a side note.....science and scientist ALWAYS deal with the real world, the discover, test, evaluate, categorize, subject there finding for peer review. I'm smart enough to trust what mainstream science tells me is true, at least its true in this moment in time. It may not be true tomorrow as new discoveries are found, but I accept the fact that this is how science works, this is how we advance in our understanding of the world around us.
On your next trip to the head doctor. Take a tube. One of the wonders of modern science.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/threadlocking-...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153265 Feb 11, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore the universe caused itself and always was.
I don't like repeating myself but it's ok.
How can that which is caused, cause itself?

It doesn't get anymore viciously circular and therefore illogical, than that...

And do you have any empirical evidence of this, or is this just your mere opinion?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153266 Feb 11, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> WHY would a simple answer need to explain everything to you? No th4re doesn't even and doesn't even..... have to be an answer to "your" questions for it to have all taken place.
Let alone there having to be an answer you would understand.
So your argument is:

I cannot account for any of it, I don't know what it was that caused it.

But I know it was not God.

Now if you took the time to be intellectually honest with yourself, you would see a problem with this...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153267 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Your wrong, the universe is NOT subject to any laws of logic, the universe merely exists. The rules of logic are properties of mankind, devised from common sense and experience of nature. Logic tells me that if I stick my hand in fire I will get burned. The fact that people contradict each other has no bearing on the absoluteness of logic. It merely reflects the failure of many to grasp the rules and play by them.
Logic dictates that either A is or it isn't, it can't be both. Either something is or it isn't. What methodology do you use to determine if something either is or it isn't? It appears to me that your logic consists of making shit up and then proclaiming it to be true. Either your god exists or it doesn't. The question is how to determine if this thing is real or not.
Here, chew on this. If god exists outside the boundaries of logic, then you are saying God can exist and not exist at the same time. Now there are three possibilities.
1.) God exists
2.) God doesn't exist
3.) God both exists and not exists.
NOTICE two out of three say God does not exist!!!!!!
So before mankind existed, a rock could both exist and not exist at the same time in the same place and in the same sense...?

Really?

As that rock was probably also the same rock that decided that life was required, you may have an interesting theorem going on there... ;-)

As to your 3 questions.

The number of options does not indicate truth, the truth out of the options indicates truth.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153268 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>And what of those who do NOT reject God but also suffer?
No one "permits" free will. Free will from the point of a Theists is an illusion, for you there is NO free will. Your God is omnipotent, he knows everything, there is nothing that he cannot know. Therefore he knows exactly what you will do. Your pathway is already determined. You think that by taking a right instead of a left is an example of free will, but God knew you would turn right. You can't do anything other than what God has predetermined for you. NO FREE WILL.
God also knew that Eve would taste of the apple from the tree of knowledge, he knew it but punisher her and all of mankind for all times. God also knew that Jesus could never really die, he offered him up as a sacrifice knowing he would rise from the dead and become as God. What kind of a sacrifice is that, and you Theists fell for it. Histories biggest hoax, and you people think it was a sacrifice. LOL
You are a chemical fizz, an idea that a rock had one day.

How do you account for the concept of free will?

As to "free will" as a discussion, that might be interesting, but I haven't stated my position yet, so not sure what exactly it is you are arguing against?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153269 Feb 11, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there another way to say it? What is the process, that your god say that you must do, to cure leprosy?
You refuse to answer because you know that it is absurd bullshit written by idiots who believed in magic.
I have already dealt with this in one sense.

But your premise is flawed anyway.

Your assumption that the instructions given in the Bible regarding leprosy is the only way to cure leprosy, is a false one.

The Bible does not state the strawman you are presenting.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153270 Feb 11, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt that we are going nowhere! From most reports, Atheism is growing very rapidly. I am guessing that the internet, with forums like this, is one of the main reasons.
No, the main reason is that the secular schools no longer teach kids how to think, but rather what to think.

As can be evidenced on this board by the constant anger against the attacks on secular religion and anti-theism on this board.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153271 Feb 11, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare,'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?

Seriously.

Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.

Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153272 Feb 11, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Well stated.
A person needs to be illogical to be religious.
A person needs to believe in superstition to be religious.
Modern day Neanderthals.
Actually, a person needs to be illogical to be an atheist.

Case in point:

There is no effect that wasn't caused.

Atheistic response:

Yes there was, something was always there, never seen it, don't know what it is, don't know where it came from, but it definitely wasn't the Christian God...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153273 Feb 11, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>That's because everyday people are wising up and getting smarter. No time for fairy tales just because someone "told you" to believe them.
http://theweek.com/article/index/226625/the-r...
A product of an education system that suppresses the truth, is not a product that is smarter...

Since: Jan 13

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#153274 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So are you saying your God is NOT omnipotent, and omniscient? An omniscient God KNOWS everything including what will happen in the future, correct? Either your God is ALL KNOWING,,,,ALL POWERFUL or he's not. Are you saying there are certain limitations that God has? He can't know of future events?
That God can see all the events in time, does not mean that He has removed choice in time...

A then B
C therefore X

Since: Jan 13

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#153275 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
So you were humiliated on the absolute argument and have switched to the laws of logic one? That is even older and many creationists even have said that is a poor choice to use now. The laws of logic argument is childish because you the user of I change the rules as need be to fit your argument. It's weak and childish.
What next? Look at the pretty trees because that shows there is a god?
:sigh:
<quoted text>
The argument for the absolute laws of logic is a subset of the argument for absolutes.

And the argument of absolutes is basically the argument for truth.

Can you account for the concept of "truth"?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153276 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yes your post is very illogical. Secular morality always strives to progress and improve whereas your bible morality says slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword is ideal, these are your absolute morality, unless you are saying te bible deity is wrong?
<quoted text>
If you lived back in the dark ages and it was a moral imperative that the majority of society had decided on, to accept the world was flat, would you accept the world was flat?

1. If you did, then you are just a sheep who follows the herd.
2. If you did not, then you are acting immorally according to your own argument.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153277 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Hey gang watch as I make him dodge the question and cower away.
Hey can you us this secular historical evidence for Jesus? Do provide this please.
It's ok dodge and run away as we all know you will.
<quoted text>
It is not a matter of evidence.

Evidence will never convince you.

So why give you more evidence.

You are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in suppressing the truth.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#153278 Feb 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>That I'm on a planet speeding around our star is somehow a delusion? Explain. What is it about that fact that is NOT part of reality. Is this fact NOT generally accepted?
delusion |di&#712;lo&#333; zh &#601;n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder :
You forget you are spinning in circles while doing so.

That can get you a little dizzy.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153279 Feb 11, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yes your sky wizard myth is childish. Your rock story I have never heard of, some strange gnostic Christian tribe maybe penned that? You will need to show a link to humans came out of a rock.
<quoted text>
They call it abiogenesis.

I can get you a link if you want, it is a part of evolutionary theory, that many evolutionists get embarrassed about and try to deny it is actually a part of the theory.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#153280 Feb 11, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you still trying to churn out this rubbish?
Seriously.
Account for morality and then you can judge the biblical morality.
Upon what basis is any of the above immoral in an atheistic worldview?
Atheism is a category which includes everybody who is not in the category theism.

Atheism is NOT a "worldview" any more that theism is. Doesn't matter how many time you present this strawman, it's still wrong.

The Humanistic worldview is guided by reason and inspired by compassion. It has evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

Humanism recognizes that ethical values (morals) are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153281 Feb 11, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
What caused god?
The First Cause has to be eternal, even your atheist buddies here know that.

That is why one of them is currently arguing for an infinite regress...

They just want the caused to be eternal, because they cannot accept the First Cause to be eternal.

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