Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#153083
Feb 10, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
Back to Mars.
Undoubtedly, Mars looked very much earth at one time. With running rivers, polar ice caps and lakes. Plenty of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. Even rain, wind and a few storms.
We only see the remains of what once was this very wet planet. With lots of water one would think there would be life. Trees, grass, fish, whales, animals of every sort. Even sea shells and crustaceans along with their fossils.
No trees, no fossils, no remains of fish or whales. Nothing, nothing but soil, and rocks. Completely lifeless and no evidence there ever was life. Lotís of evidence of water both liquid and frozen. But no evidence of life.
What does that tell us? Life is not self creating. If it was so easy then we would have seen an abundance of evidence by now. If we had a wealth of evidence that life existed on Mars. That in itself would say that life could self create. Magically build the complex DNA codes needed for life to start and replicate.
The pendulum swings against self creation on Mars. There among the desolate dunes on Mars is a lack of evidence. That life can mystically and magically appear without purposely being designed and constructed.
I am making every attempt here to be civil. Your contention that if Mars had once possessed life we should know about it. Thats the same as someone walking to the edge of a desolate beach, scooping up some water, kicking over same sand and declaring,,,NOPE NO LIFE EXISTS HERE!!!! Hopefully you can see how stupid that is. We have a few roving probes analyzing rocks and soil, thats it. Imagine an Alien probe landing in the middle of the Sahara desert, what would the find? Two rovers on a planet basically the size of Earth, and you have concluded that there is no evidence of life on Mars? REALLY?? You might very well be right, but lets at least wait until a manned mission has spent considerable time looking for sign of life before we say NO LIFE THERE. It somewhat angers me that the only reason you make such a ridiculous and unfounded statement is because you are desperately trying to support your religious beliefs, and it has nothing to do with real discovery. And if they fine evidence of life then what will you say? Don't answer I already know....."See how God has created life even on planets other than our own"

Since: Sep 08

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#153084
Feb 10, 2013
 
Turkey wrote:
<quoted text> This is especially true of the atheists. It is also true that Dave makes fools of all of the topix atheists regularly. Its quite amusing. Dave makes a mockery of even the most ardent psuedo elite atheists.
Thank you for the compliment, but all I really do is assist them in their efforts. They do try hard.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#153085
Feb 10, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>You are aware that, on a quantum level, there are uncaused effects?
Therefore the universe caused itself and always was.

I don't like repeating myself but it's ok.

Since: Sep 08

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#153086
Feb 10, 2013
 
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I am making every attempt here to be civil. Your contention that if Mars had once possessed life we should know about it. Thats the same as someone walking to the edge of a desolate beach, scooping up some water, kicking over same sand and declaring,,,NOPE NO LIFE EXISTS HERE!!!! Hopefully you can see how stupid that is. We have a few roving probes analyzing rocks and soil, thats it. Imagine an Alien probe landing in the middle of the Sahara desert, what would the find? Two rovers on a planet basically the size of Earth, and you have concluded that there is no evidence of life on Mars? REALLY?? You might very well be right, but lets at least wait until a manned mission has spent considerable time looking for sign of life before we say NO LIFE THERE. It somewhat angers me that the only reason you make such a ridiculous and unfounded statement is because you are desperately trying to support your religious beliefs, and it has nothing to do with real discovery. And if they fine evidence of life then what will you say? Don't answer I already know....."See how God has created life even on planets other than our own"
Mars is just a touch over half the diameter of Earth. The moon is a little more than a quarter.

The aliens would find lots of signs of life in the Sahara. Or at the beach.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#153087
Feb 10, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The view is stunning in March, especially in the morning.
Had one of my God looking out for me moments along that highway. Some sheer cliff driving. Was heading north late in the day and curved into the setting sun with a sharp right curve coming up. A large tractor trailer was coming the other way around that tight curve. I was totally blinded.
There used to be a rusted wreck of a car that went 1000 ft off the cliff you could look down and see. Was a sort of tourist attraction.
Well, it's not an easy place to extricate the car.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#153088
Feb 10, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The First Cause must account for:
1. Laws of logic.
2. Laws of morality.
3. Laws of nature.
4. Existance of intelligence.
5. Purpose and meaning to life.
Now, if each of these are logically taken back to the First Cause, God is self evident.
But, if you want to deny God, then you have to avoid taking these back to the First Cause.
And this is your problem.
Because you are inherently predisposed to reject God, you have to reject any line of reasoning that leads back to God.
And as God is the foundation of all reasoning, you have to reject reason itself.
You do that by abandoning the laws of logic which will lead an open mind back to God.
The truth is self evident.
Error is just as self evident, as it rests on absurdity and arbitrary inconsistency.
Which you would of course expect when someone is denying the truth.
As has been displayed over and over again when your worldview has been examined and discussed.
WHY would a simple answer need to explain everything to you? No th4re doesn't even and doesn't even..... have to be an answer to "your" questions for it to have all taken place.

Let alone there having to be an answer you would understand.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#153089
Feb 10, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"Therefore the universe caused itself and always was."
LOL!!!
Sounds like a wild card to me.
Instead of goddidit you say shit happens.
Your scientific approach is remarkable.

No actually the shit did happen.
Your assertion there was a god involved.......
Doesn't include any evidence.
Yet it in fact it did happen. That's what I am saying.

Now since we see it happened, but do not see any gods.

WTF would be the reason we could think one was responsible for it?

Your belief, superstition or fantasy?

Please.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#153090
Feb 10, 2013
 
Turkey wrote:
<quoted text> This is especially true of the atheists. It is also true that Dave makes fools of all of the topix atheists regularly. Its quite amusing. Dave makes a mockery of even the most ardent psuedo elite atheists.
That you are the largest of all liars in topix is a axiom.

King of liars what a Turkey!

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#153091
Feb 10, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's not an easy place to extricate the car.
Is it still there?

Since: Sep 08

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#153092
Feb 10, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
No actually the shit did happen.
Your assertion there was a god involved.......
Doesn't include any evidence.
Yet it in fact it did happen. That's what I am saying.
Now since we see it happened, but do not see any gods.
WTF would be the reason we could think one was responsible for it?
Your belief, superstition or fantasy?
Please.
"WTF would be the reason we could think one was responsible for it?"

A deity whipping it up, or carving it out of its territory seems a bit more logical than your magic poof. Of course, it could have just taken a dump, and here you are.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#153093
Feb 10, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it still there?
I don't know, but I doubt it--it's been what, almost 40 years?

On another note though, although the sardine canneries immortalized by Steinbeck are all gone, they have done a wonderful job of preserving the aura and the history in Monterey itself. The "downtown" area, with the shimmering ocean and its sealife performing alongside, is one of the more beautiful places I have visited--anywhere.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#153094
Feb 10, 2013
 
Were what?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
In a universe were free will is permitted, suffering is also a consequence of the rejection of God...
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#153095
Feb 10, 2013
 
I stayed there one night.£421 for dinner, bed and breakfast. I managed to blow the electrics in my room after a particularly heavy night. Great place. They need to sort their landscaping out though. There are sandpits and flagpoles everywhere.
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you live close to the Gleaneagles Hotel? I have wanted to go there!

Since: Dec 12

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#153096
Feb 10, 2013
 
Lincoln wrote:
Stalin
Himler
Hitler
Mao
Zinoviev
Kaminev
Fidel Castro
Lenin
Trotsky
I hope for your sake your list is longer than that, because nearly every president was religious and sent people to kill in wars, and we haven't even gotten to other countries leaders either. There is NO doubt, religion spreads more mass murder than anything else on the planet. Religion is an insult to human dignity. There will always be good and bad people in the world, but history has recorded that for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Since: Dec 12

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#153097
Feb 10, 2013
 
Turkey wrote:
It is also true that Dave makes fools of all of the topix atheists regularly. Its quite amusing. Dave makes a mockery of even the most ardent psuedo elite atheists.
Get a room.
Acadia

Hagerstown, MD

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#153098
Feb 10, 2013
 
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I am making every attempt here to be civil. "
Your anger as an atheist negates all of your attempts.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#153099
Feb 10, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
I stayed there one night.£421 for dinner, bed and breakfast. I managed to blow the electrics in my room after a particularly heavy night. Great place. They need to sort their landscaping out though. There are sandpits and flagpoles everywhere.
<quoted text>
Haha.

I would have to add the expense of travel....

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#153100
Feb 10, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
I stayed there one night.£421 for dinner, bed and breakfast. I managed to blow the electrics in my room after a particularly heavy night. Great place. They need to sort their landscaping out though. There are sandpits and flagpoles everywhere.
<quoted text>
On another note, you're close enough to go visit Richard III, no?

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#153101
Feb 10, 2013
 
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I am making every attempt here to be civil. Your contention that if Mars had once possessed life we should know about it. Thats the same as someone walking to the edge of a desolate beach, scooping up some water, kicking over same sand and declaring,,,NOPE NO LIFE EXISTS HERE!!!! Hopefully you can see how stupid that is. We have a few roving probes analyzing rocks and soil, thats it. Imagine an Alien probe landing in the middle of the Sahara desert, what would the find? Two rovers on a planet basically the size of Earth, and you have concluded that there is no evidence of life on Mars? REALLY?? You might very well be right, but lets at least wait until a manned mission has spent considerable time looking for sign of life before we say NO LIFE THERE. It somewhat angers me that the only reason you make such a ridiculous and unfounded statement is because you are desperately trying to support your religious beliefs, and it has nothing to do with real discovery. And if they fine evidence of life then what will you say? Don't answer I already know....."See how God has created life even on planets other than our own"
My good Doctor, let us say, so far there is absolutely no evidence of life on Mars. Now we must be clear when we say ďlifeĒ we are talking plants and animals of various sorts.

Having lived in a desert myself. I can tell you that it is beaming with life. A different kind of life perhaps but life indeed.

Mars was very much Earth like at one time including rain showers. Lots of evidence of water but absolutely no evidence of life, so far. I know this is a disappointment to Atheist. It would be a grand slam home run if there were signs of life. We have been studying Mars not just this decade but for decades. And the scientific thought is at this time, that thereís no life there, in the past or present.

As far as manned missions to Mars. Iím completely against it. Mainly because of the cost factor. I would prefer to explore Mars in the most scientific economical way. We are doing that right now. We donít have to send mankind to Mars when we can bring Mars to us.

Until life or remains of life is revealed on Mars. It will remain an example that life canít simply self spawn from sterile material. The pendulum swings toward creationist Doctor when it comes to Mars.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#153102
Feb 10, 2013
 
Richard's a bit of a moving target. Leicester, where he was dug up, expect him to be buried in their local cathedral- in fact, that was a condition of his disinterment. York now want him to be buried there.

I don't yet know where Richard of York will end up.
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
On another note, you're close enough to go visit Richard III, no?

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