Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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147,021 - 147,040 of 226,391 Comments Last updated 31 min ago

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#153004 Feb 10, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
A good read about evidence of Christ outside of the Bible.
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-histor...
Ah, yes, a "Bible Study" site. Good pick.

Aand we're back to Josephus and Tacitus - both of which are shown to include later interpolations (read: forgeries) involving the Jesus.

And Africanus? He refers to the "Paschal full moon" - and the term "paschal" didn't come into use for "Easter" until after 170 AD. Meaning that Africanus was writing at least 140 years after the fact.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153005 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You ignored all of my points. Science is NOT based upon the assumption of causality. That is shown by the *science* of quantum physics, which is not a causal theory.
You still did not define 'causality'. Since I did and my definition doesn't lead to the conclusions you think follow, you need to at least provide a different definition or argue that mine is incorrect.
I pointed out that the *actual* law of causality is: every caused event has a physical cause. You have not refuted that version of the law, but it is clear that it does not support your conclusions. It does, however, follow from my definition of causality.
You have shown your willingness to ignore arguments that reach conclusions you don't like. Now, can you actually stand up and defend your position, or are you simply going to re-state arguments that have already been shown to be wrong
Again, you raise quantum physics and argue that because you have not defined a cause, no cause exists, which of course is an assumption on your part and not actually evidence that causality is suspended in quantum physics...

Just because you cannot identify the cause of an effect, does not mean it does not have a cause.

----------

Yes, every effect is caused, that is the nature of causality which we observe.

So what was the First Cause?

----------

You have two choices:

1. Account for the First Cause.
2. Deny it and reduce yourself to an infinite regression, which of course does not account for anything and is illogical.

There has to be a First Cause, causality proves that.

But you have to deny that simple truth.

Hence your appeal to the murky theoretical nature of quantum physics as a rescuing device....

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#153006 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats the point.
Everyone does have access to it.
That truth is expressed in so many different ways in Creation.
The suppression of that truth, also confirms it, as the suppression always relies on error and illogicity to attack the truth, showing its nature.
As I have been showing you over and over.
----------
This can again be displayed in this post, you deny absolute truth, by claiming an absolute truth...
Contradicting yourself again.
That very act of contradiction is the evidence that you are suppressing the truth.
It is there for anybody to see...
You're simply voicing an opinion.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#153007 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
You need to go and do some reading on the subject.
Thank you but I am very well educated in the matter. History doesn't lie. Your delusions however do.
Even critics of the Bible, who are serious with their research would not support your claims here.
Not true. But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#153008 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, sin is a religious concept, not a humanist concept. You are wrong, but that isn't the same as sinning. You are also immoral, but that isn't the same as sinning.

I think sin does exist, but only in a personal aspect.
A sin is breaking your own rules.
For instance if you say I will never hit a woman, then hit a woman you have sinned. Or you say I will never drive drunk etc.
I don't think there is really a divine set of codes for it, it's personal. I's breaking your own code of honor. For some the standard could be quite low, so sin for them could be atrocity for others.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153009 Feb 10, 2013
GenoGirl wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what your saying but I didnt make you change your beleifs , I never said I would make you beleive,, im just saying the whole argument is going nowhere thats all im saying
Why would you assume it is going nowhere?

We have had atheists approve of rape.

Deny causality.

Deny the laws of logic.

Deny absolute moral standards.

It has gone plenty of places.

All of them pointing to the plain absolute truth of Gods existence.

That for me, is always a worthwhile cause.

The Bible commands us to defend the faith, casting down imaginations and every foolish thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.

We should not ignore that injunction...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153010 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The purpose *I* decide to have. Chemical fizz that has intelligence can do that.
How can you decide to have a purpose, when you are just a product of random chance events?

You have no choice in anything you do, as you are merely following the chemical reactions in your brain.

How then, do you claim that you can have purpose?

Unless fizzing is your purpose...
Lincoln

United States

#153011 Feb 10, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Remember the Crusades? Religion is an insult to human dignity. There will always be good and bad people in the world, but history has recorded that for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
20th century soaked in the blood of atheist governments.

East Germany, the wall, shooting people
who wished to leave.

Stalin
Himler
Hitler
Mao
Zinoviev
Kaminev
Fidel Castro
Lenin
Trotsky
Twentieth century atheists in power
resulted in mass murder

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#153012 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You really think by me quoting Proverbs I have in some way invalidated Proverbs?
Maybe you have simply misunderstood what Jesus said, because of your predisposition to reject any truth the Bible presents.
:-)
So far, what has been self evident is you lack of faith in your god. Otherwise you wouldn't run from simple questions like; How does one cure leprosy?

When someone like you refuses to stand behind your god, I conclude that you are a complete phony.
GenoGirl

Ladybank, UK

#153013 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you assume it is going nowhere?
We have had atheists approve of rape.
Deny causality.
Deny the laws of logic.
Deny absolute moral standards.
It has gone plenty of places.
All of them pointing to the plain absolute truth of Gods existence.
That for me, is always a worthwhile cause.
The Bible commands us to defend the faith, casting down imaginations and every foolish thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.
We should not ignore that injunction...
Dude your not getting the point of my comment, I meant, you all disagree with each other, and it'll keep going round in circles, no maatter what you say to them, they wont beleive you

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153014 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, sin is a religious concept, not a humanist concept. You are wrong, but that isn't the same as sinning. You are also immoral, but that isn't the same as sinning.
Sin is transgression of the Law.

You say that you as a secular morality have the right to set the law, along with the rest of the secular herd.

Therefore, am I sinning when I say your laws are not something I intend to follow?

You see, you set yourself up as the authority for morality, then you in effect take the place of God.

And that is the agenda of the secular humanist movement.

To replace Gods laws, with the laws of fallen humanity.

Who's main desire it seems of late, is to justify unhealthy, immoral and unproductive activities like homosexuality.

Then claim they are enlightened and moral...

And anyone who does not agree with the high priests of secularism, should be taken to one side and firmly re-educated until they accept the doctrine of secular humanism...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#153015 Feb 10, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Remember the Crusades? Religion is an insult to human dignity. There will always be good and bad people in the world, but history has recorded that for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Religion is a method of gathering strength, a once necessary function to drive Empires.

It doesn't have to be that way, but people are easily led by their
emotion and desire. Religion manipulates these things, if the human race is to survive, we will have to conquer ourselves before we conquer the world. There will always be alignment to cause though.
So long as there are at least two world powers.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#153016 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Based on that requirement, you obviously do not believe that Alexander the Great existed either then?
If of course you genuinely hold to your standard of truth here.
But maybe you only adopt this when it comes to biblical claims?
A little research will show you that DNA evidence for the father of Alexander The Great exists. A simple process to prove via physical evidence that Alexander The Great existed, unlike either Jesus or your God. A speaking of your imaginary friend were is the scientific reality based evidence I requested? Cat got your tongue?
rider

Marquette, MI

#153017 Feb 10, 2013
Based on these rosters and other source articles, the following people are or have been members of CNP:
The Council for National Policy (CNP) is a shadowy, secretive group dubbed "Sith Lords of the Ultra-Right
A
Jack Abramhoff - Former super lobbyist and convicted felon.
Howard Ahmanson, Jr.- Home Savings & Loan (Savings of America) heir
Thomas R. Anderson
Dr. John F.Ankerberg who believes that biblical prophecies were literal promises and are coming true;
Hon. Richard K. Armey
Thomas K. Armstrong
Sen. William L. Armstrong
John Ashcroft Attorney General
John M. Ashbrook
Edward G. Atsinger III
B
Carole Baker
Theodore Baehr
William B. Ball
David Balsiger
Hon. Gary Bauer
Pat Boone - Actor, investor and contributor to social conservative and religious causes.
Dr. William Rohl Bright
Floyd Brown
Sam Brunelli
Larry Burkett
C
Holland (Holly) Coors
Jeffrey Coors
Joseph Coors
Mary C. Crowley
D
Tom DeLay - Former Speaker of the House sentenced to three years in Texas prison for money laundering.
Richard DeVos founder of Amway and Orlando Magic owner. A major contributor to a wide range of ultra-Right causes, groups and candidates
Rich DeVos
Pierre du Pont
F
Lauch Faircloth[9]
Rev. Dr. Jerry Falwell (Deceased)
Joseph F. Farah
Michael P. Farris
Dr. Edwin J. Feulner, Jr
Father Charles Fiore
Foster Friess -Born-again billionaire mutual fund manager.
Herbert William Hunt
Mary Reilly Hunt
Nelson Bunker Hunt - Unsuccessfully tried to corner the silver market.
I
Charles W. Jarvis, chairman and chief executive of USANext and United Seniors Association
Louis (Woody) Jenkins
Terry J. Jeffers
Dr.[[Mildred Faye Jefferson
Bob Jones III, President, Bob Jones University
James F. Justiss
K
Rep. Jack Kemp (R-NY)
Dr. D. James Kennedy
Alan Keyes
L
Beverly LaHaye
Dr. Timothy LaHaye, author of the Left Behind Series,[10]
M
Hon. Edwin Meese III[12]
Major F. Andy Messing, Jr.
Chuck Missler, an Idaho radio host who has predicted an imminent invasion of Jerusalem by forces guided by the Antichrist
Barbara Monteith
Dr. Stanley Monteith
Rev. Sun Myung Moon - Reverend Moon of the "Moonies" [13]
Dr. Raymond Moore
Sam Moore, president of Thomas Nelson, the country's most successful Christian book publishing company
Dr. Henry Morris, prominent creationist
N
Grover Norquist - President, Americans for Tax Reform - Far Right power broker and keeper of the infamous "Tax Pledge"
Dr. Gary North
Lt. Col. Oliver North - Iran-Contra and a failed attempt to run for the United States Senate.
P
Gov. Sarah Palin former governor of Alaska and former Vice Presidential running mate for Senator John McCain in 2008.
Dr. Paige Patterson
Robert J. Perry
Howard Phillips
William M. Polk
Lawrence D. Pratt
Judge Paul Pressler
Jim Price
Ed Prince
Elsa Prince
R
Dr. Charles E. Rice
H.L. "Bill" Richardson
Rich Riddle
Dr. Pat Robertson, former presidential candidate and Christian Coalition founder
James Robinson
Phyllis Schlafly Founder, Eagle Forum
Lynda Scribante
Ron Seeley
Jay Sekulow
Hans Sennholz
Beurt SerVaas
Frank Shakespeare
Lou Sheldon, President of the Traditional Values
Major General John K. Singlaub
Dr. W. Cleon Skousen
Mark Skousen
John H. Sununu
W
Craig Welch
Paul Weyrich
James Whelan
People Who Have Addressed CNP
John Ashcroft
George W. Bush, 2000
Vice President Dick Cheney, 2007
Mitt Romney 2007
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.htm

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153018 Feb 10, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Remember the Crusades? Religion is an insult to human dignity. There will always be good and bad people in the world, but history has recorded that for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
The USSR and Communist China practiced atheism as their fundamental worldview and philosophy.

They didn't need religion, therefore your argument is illogical, as they did plenty of killing in the name of atheism.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#153019 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You really think by me quoting Proverbs I have in some way invalidated Proverbs?
Maybe you have simply misunderstood what Jesus said, because of your predisposition to reject any truth the Bible presents.
:-)
You miss the point, I think.

Fundies cannot argue from a scientific basis, since they simply don't understand the material or how it works.

That's fine - we unbelievers can showcase your ignorance and self-contradiction using _your_ materials.

Oops.

Must suck to be you.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#153020 Feb 10, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
So far, what has been self evident is you lack of faith in your god. Otherwise you wouldn't run from simple questions like; How does one cure leprosy?
When someone like you refuses to stand behind your god, I conclude that you are a complete phony.
I am not understanding your question.

If you rephrase it clearer I might be able to deal with it.

There are so many implied assumptions in it, that at this point, it would make no sense to answer it.

Present your argument.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#153021 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly my point...
Why are so many atheists at war with God, if they really do believe He does not exist...
You really can't read at all, can you?

That's not an attack on your myth, it's an attack on you.

You're not God, remember?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#153022 Feb 10, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ohhh you don't belive in that do you?
No, I bedead in it.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#153023 Feb 10, 2013
GenoGirl wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude your not getting the point of my comment, I meant, you all disagree with each other, and it'll keep going round in circles, no maatter what you say to them, they wont beleive you
You are so right about that. However we can learn from these Atheist. They do have some value that we can use. Also one must take in account those that come to the thread to read both sides of the argument. Some of these people may be on the fence. The fence riders can be reached.

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