Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#152950 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are still not dealing with the point.
Please take the time to read it and think about it, as it is clear you are not doing so at the moment.
If morality is what the "herd" decides, then nothing is absolutely wrong or absolutely right.
And you would have followed the herd all through history.
So you would have supported the inquisition.
You would have supported slavery.
You would have supported every crime that every society ever made, because you are morally bound to do so.
Your morality can never rise any higher or challenge the herd.
Therefore, you can never argue that a different herd acted immorally...
You would have been morally bound to accept the earth was flat during the dark ages.
And would have probably been standing outside Gallileos house with a pitchfork and torch demanding his execution...
Time to start thinking and leave the herd, the herd never gets it right...
And the current herd religion is secular atheism...
The mistake you are making is claiming absolute truth. Absolute right and wrong. There are NO absolutes. If you deal in absolutes then can you say that ABSOLUTELY there is no life beyond our solar system? Further, can you say with ABSOLUTE certainly that any life that exists, beyond our scope of detection, was NOT created by another being? And can you say with ABSOLUTE certainly that the universe we now occupy is NOT infinite, that it does NOT have any boundaries or edges, that is has always existed? And can you say with ABSOLUTE certainly that this present universe is but one of many, and the singularity our universe sprang from was simple a "local event?"

What is evident is that we certainly cannot acquire any moral teachings from the bible. A book that condones genocide, baby murdering, slavery, rape, blood sacrifice, and just plain evil.

Your God decided to reveal himself to mankind some 2,000 years ago. Conservative estimates puts our species on the planet some 150,000--200,000 years ago. I wonder just how did we get along morally for 198,000 years. By your logic we should have completely torn our species to shreds long before your demon God decided it was time to show his evil face.
Lincoln

United States

#152951 Feb 10, 2013
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no absolute truths and there is no conundrum unless you make one.
Is
this
your
absolute
truth?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#152952 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact you are at war with Him, is plenty enough evidence.
I do not spend my time trying to prove that lizard men disguised as humans exist as it has no credibility.
You on the other hand are quite enamored with the:
"God isn't real and I hate Him" argument...
Silly person.

One cannot be at war with, much less hate, that which does not exist.

Pointing out that certain True Believers® are socially stunted (or downright stupid) is not an attack on some mythical deity.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152953 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Stop being such a coward, there are no CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT OF JESUS OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE. Now that is a FACT. Any other accounts of Jesus were written decades after his existence. That is also a FACT. Don't be a pussy, now, show me your evidence, and not your holy book, that shows that the Jesus you spastically believe in, existed.
My good Doctor, your statement brings up a interesting thought. If Christ lived and died then somewhere in history there would be a reference to him outside of the bible.

It just so happens there is a Roman historian named Senator Tacitus who referred to Christ and Pontius Pilate written in his book 116. It was written in a reference to a great fire in Rome that burned the city 64 AD.

Thank you for bringing up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Chris...

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.

The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero. The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.

Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.

In terms of an overall context, historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing". The passage is also of historical value in establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60:(i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time,(ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#152954 Feb 10, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Is
this
your
absolute
truth?
I don't subscribe to absolute truths.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152955 Feb 10, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism doesn't "argue" anything. All atheism is is a lack of a belief in a god.
You must be very insecure to need it to mean more so desperately.
I don't accept your definition of atheism.

Atheism, as defined in the Bible:

The fool has said in his heart, there is no God...

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#152956 Feb 10, 2013
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't subscribe to absolute truths.
That's correct, there's no such thing as god.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#152957 Feb 10, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My good Doctor, your statement brings up a interesting thought. If Christ lived and died then somewhere in history there would be a reference to him outside of the bible.
It just so happens there is a Roman historian named Senator Tacitus who referred to Christ and Pontius Pilate written in his book 116. It was written in a reference to a great fire in Rome that burned the city 64 AD.
Thank you for bringing up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Chris...
The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.
The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero. The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.
Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.
In terms of an overall context, historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing". The passage is also of historical value in establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60:(i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time,(ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea.
Creationism is a fraudulent cult. We don't believe your lies.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#152958 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets test your claim:
Homosexuality is abominable, spiritually, socially and morally, this is absolutely true.
Now what is your reaction to my statement of truth?
Have I "sinned" against humanism.:-)
Will the followers of humanism be offended at this statement and decree I deserve death?
Will they count this as a moral "sin".
You're simply wrong, ONCE again. Don't you get tired of getting your ass kicked over your absolutes?

1.) Homosexuality is NOT abominable, it is to you I'm sure but not a universal claim.

2.) Neither is it socially and morally wrong.

3.) Nor is anything you have just stated, the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. It is simply Your jaded opinion. An opinion dirtied by religious dogma,

Here is some ABSOLUTE facts for you. Homosexuality among the animal kingdom, or which we are apart of, is wide spread. Over 1,500 cases of sam sex behavior has been documented in everything from fruit flies to penguins. There are NO species on the face of the planet that do not display some form of same sex behavior. Fish, reptiles, birds bats, mammals, insects, all display these traits. Now it would appear if you claim that your God is responsible for creating all there is, including every species found o the planet, then he apparently instilled these traits in all of these species, correct? So if your God see's nothing wrong with same sex behavior, what is your problem? I wonder why all these species have been created with same sex behavioral traits, could it be that your God enjoys the same? Just using the reason and logic you wave around so judiciously.

Same sex behavior is not frowned upon in many countries, like the Atheistic countries of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Countries that have booted your demon God out and allowed people live happily without your infamous celestial dictator peering down on them.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152959 Feb 10, 2013
A good read about evidence of Christ outside of the Bible.

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-histor...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152960 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Several problems here:
1) You haven't defined what it means to be caused.
In particular, the typical *definition* of 'A causes B' is that physical laws, working with initial condition A lead to a later condition B. So two things are required for causality: 1) physical laws, 2) time-so earlier and later make sense.
2) You haven't defined what it means to be an effect.
The only possible definition is 'something that is caused', which makes your claim trivial, but useless.
3) Most effects have more than one cause.
4) The correct statement is "everything that has a cause has a physical cause". That is the statement supported by *all* the evidence.
When you correct your statement, you find that the 'first cause' argument for the existence of God fails miserably.
All effects are caused.

Basic causality, upon which science is based...

You can deny that if you see fit.

In fact you might need to if you want to hold onto your particular views.

In fact, you have to, to maintain your absurd position...:-)

You see error has to deny truth to try to maintain its hold over truth.

So you have no choice but to keep denying even the most basic truths of the universe, to support your error.

Proving the very point I am making.:-)
Thinking

Yeovil, UK

#152961 Feb 10, 2013
No all powerful compassionate god exists.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't accept your definition of atheism.
Atheism, as defined in the Bible:
The fool has said in his heart, there is no God...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152962 Feb 10, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
How am I being represented? Oh! You mean that all the evidence excludes your god, so therefore, it represents Atheism.
Well, show us some evidence of your god and we will gladly put him in there.
Do you remember,“cdesign proponentsists”?
All Americans own the public lands and the government. Now would you agree to putting all of the known gods names on our currency? Maybe every sect of every religion should be allowed to have their myths taught as fact in science class?
Your silly attempt at insulting me aside, either you include every sect of every religion or you keep all religions out.
You claimed that you as an atheist have the sole right to decide what is taught in schools and what is allowed in government.

You made the claim it belongs to your particular worldview.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#152963 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't accept your definition of atheism.
Atheism, as defined in the Bible:
The fool has said in his heart, there is no God...
I guess, being a christian, means you can pull from the OT when you want and then deny it when you want.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says,‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
GenoGirl

Ladybank, UK

#152964 Feb 10, 2013
Im not tryng to hit on anyones views but your all just as bad each other in a sense you dont just drop it and move on. some of you seem to keep going as if your trolling so you'll get more bad comments from the other person and wind them up. And another thing it seems both sides of the argument are going nowhere, since neither side can respect others opinions. Im not choosing sides either, since I respect everyones opinion, but to lash out at each other over if Gods real or not is just pointless and it will get you nowhere since neith sides can agree with each other. Finally theres a problem with respect of other peoples beleifs, bashing each other beleifs is stupid and most people will just have to put up with what the other person believes and so on. Im just trying to keep things calm is all

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152965 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You aren't listening. The coldness and emptiness of the universe as a whole is irrelevant to my purpose: My purpose is *defined* by me, not by the universe as a whole.
<quoted text>
Not true. It has meaning, as I already stated. But it isn't a cosmic meaning. It isn't something that dramatically affects the universe as a whole. It is *my* purpose and *my* meaning for *my* life.
<quoted text>
I already did, multiple times. You have ignored my answers.
How can you define purpose, you are just a chemical fizz.

What purpose do you have?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152966 Feb 10, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Your god requires permission for us?!?!?
Your god is man made and therefore can do or be anything that any man wants him to be.
I am sure you desire this to be true, but that does not make it so.

Your desire is not truth.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152967 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Well now you are just a dishonest liar. You mad the claim back on YOUR POST #152820 that "I am making absolute truth claims."
This conversation goes only this far. You have made a positive claim, actually you have made a number of positive claims about an imaginary being. Before we can have any discussion about this being, you are required to present verifiable evidence that this being exists. Be prepared to show scientific evidence and or proof that can be found in reality for this being. You seem to think that by simply making a claim, that it automatically should be accepted a factual.
I now challenge you to prove that our species was not the result of Panspermia, or seeded by a race of highly advance beings. Either way your God becomes completely irrelevant.
Yes, I am making a positive claim, as revealed in the Bible by God.

So both my statements were in fact true.

But I am not making the claim based on my own authority, how could I, I am a human with very little knowledge of the universe.

But I am appealing to God and His revealed statements of truth which has been communicated to all mankind.

You however, want to offer your opinion, and then demand everyone disproves it.

Why would I attempt to disprove your opinion, the fact it is mere opinion, means it has no foundation for claiming it is truth.

So having to prove something to you, that is contrary to your opinion, which you have not justified, is nonsensical.

You first have to justify your own worldview, as I have done with mine, then you can ask others to justify themselves.

Until you have done that, you have no right to demand anyone else bring their justifications to the table.

With that in mind, from your worldview...

Please account for the existence of absolute truth...

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152968 Feb 10, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationism is a fraudulent cult. We don't believe your lies.
Cults do exist and I don’t blame you for not believing in them. I don’t believe in their dogma either and despise them even more than you my good man. So we have something in common, neither one of us care for cults.

I understand that you are referencing all believers as being in a cult. Here is where we disagree. I’m using the traditional meaning of the word,“cult.” You are attempting to branch that definition to include your own interpretation. Your definition is not widely accepted by the masses. You are outside of the mainstream in your thoughts.

You do understand what it means to be outside the mainstream? We are all inside a nice warm building and you are standing outside in the cold shivering, calling us ignorant. You may actually believe that but as we look at you through the window. You are pretty much alone in your thoughts compared to the majority.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#152969 Feb 10, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My good Doctor, your statement brings up a interesting thought. If Christ lived and died then somewhere in history there would be a reference to him outside of the bible.
It just so happens there is a Roman historian named Senator Tacitus who referred to Christ and Pontius Pilate written in his book 116. It was written in a reference to a great fire in Rome that burned the city 64 AD.
Thank you for bringing up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Chris...
The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.
The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero. The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.
Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.
In terms of an overall context, historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing". The passage is also of historical value in establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60:(i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time,(ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea.
I stand by my original statement, "There are NO contemporary accounts of Jesus outside of the bible." There are NO original manuscripts from Tacitus, but the real nail in the coffin is the FACT that Tacitus was born 25 years after the death of Jesus, hardly a contemporary. I'm not sure when these manuscripts were written or how old Tacitus was when he wrote them, but even if he was in his 20's that would put the death of Jesus almost 50 years from when he wrote about Jesus. Once again, hardly a contemporary account. And we all know what happens to stories handed down over the years, how greatly they change. Sorry, but nice try!!!

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