Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152769 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the man that states a gust of wind blew on a handful of dirt and man magically appeared.
How would you define him?
Any invocation of magic as an explanation in the real world shows a disconnect to reality.

More specifically, the chemical properties of 'dirt' and 'wind' are not such that humans can be produced from them.
Imhotep

United States

#152770 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the man that states a gust of wind blew on a handful of dirt and man magically appeared.
How would you define him?
Delusional, Uneducated, or a another Magician...
It's been done before, and with beautiful women!
See most any magic show in Vegas except 'The Amazing Jonathan'

;)

http://www.lasvegas-nv.com/the-amazing-johnat...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152771 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
Except, of course, that many people don't see it as self-evident. That shows it isn't.
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
We choose our own purpose in life. Wow that was easy. You see, purpose is something each and every one of us gets to decide for ourselves It's a tremendous freedom, but one that many shy away from. Some people just don't like to take responsibility for their own decisions, so they create the idea of deities to make them feel better about themselves.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152772 Feb 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
But your god in the old and New Testament advocates for slavery, are you saying he was immoral for that?
I got a hundred bucks that says he dodges and avoids questions :)
<quoted text>
First you have to define morality.

If you do not qualify your terms, how can anyone respond appropriately to them?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#152773 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Any invocation of magic as an explanation in the real world shows a disconnect to reality.
More specifically, the chemical properties of 'dirt' and 'wind' are not such that humans can be produced from them.
Like virtual particles?

Singing sand.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#152774 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
The explanation is simple, you were created by God, with purpose, but due to the desire to suppress that knowledge of God, including His purpose for you, you have to deny His existance.
Then you are caught in the conundrum of accounting for the purpose you intrinsically know you have, without the originator of that purpose to help you define it.
So what happens then?
Nothing, you just keep claiming you have purpose but cannot account for it.
You cannot explain it, because the explanation is not something you are comfortable with...


Load of malarkey , not sure where the phrase came from.
But I know it when I see it.

We define our own purposes in life, some never find one.
Some do find one, but it doesn't have to be inspired by religion
or god. Our purpose first, is to survive. That is every animals purpose. People like you suppose there was some creator designed purpose to life, but none exists. Those who are believing this, are having their strings pulled by those who have hijacked their potential and using them for an agenda that is of someone Else's fabrication. Plain and simple, but some exist to serve and are easily led to the agendas of other men. But don't pretend the purpose is from god, because that's just a lie used as a motivator.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152775 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>There IS NO evidence for the existence of your God. There are however, stories and anecdotal testimony which hardly count as "empirical evidence." As someone once said "The evidence for God is the same as for werewolves."
Now what usually happens after someone makes such claim, is support for this claim follows. Fossil records, some other kind of physical evidence, anything can be traced back and connected to your God thing. We have evidence for Alexander the Great, DNA from his father I think. You don't even have reliable or historical evidence for Jesus. You once again have some anecdotal testimony, and lots of stories passed down over the centuries. The fact is, there are NO contemporary accounts of Jesus outside of the bible. Everything that was written about Jesus was written decades after his supposed death.
There is no evidence within me or around me. I'm an animal the same as you. I was born and will cease to live at some point. The marvels of my body are the work of millions of years of evolution, as is the world around me. There is no magic involved, pure biology and science is the answer. I'm sure you believe there is some mystical magical being responsible, but all that exists, like your God, only in YOUR mind.
There are NO laws that govern "Mind" only matter. And those laws may well have existed always.
You do what all Theists and fundies do, you state your beliefs as factual, and do so without a shred of evidence. I use to find this annoying, now I find it extremely comical. So very childlike. "Oh look, a rainbow, its so beautiful it must be God." "Look at how complex our bodies are, I can't for one moment understand this complexity, only God could have created such perfection." You can't understand it so........GODDIDIT. You see something awe inspiring so......GOGDIDIT. So very childish. Oh, BTW, the human body is very far from perfect.
I am sorry, but your argument that there is no evidence for Jesus is just downright absurd and not one I am even tempted to treat seriously.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#152776 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
The explanation is simple, you were created by God, with purpose, but due to the desire to suppress that knowledge of God, including His purpose for you, you have to deny His existance.
Then you are caught in the conundrum of accounting for the purpose you intrinsically know you have, without the originator of that purpose to help you define it.
So what happens then?
Nothing, you just keep claiming you have purpose but cannot account for it.
You cannot explain it, because the explanation is not something you are comfortable with...
The "truth" of God is self-evident to you, and to those who believe as you do, it is NOT at all self-evident to many others including myself. Your problem is that you start with a faulty premiss and then build everything around this premiss. It always comes down to whether or not your beliefs are TRUE. True in the demonstrable way. You have a belief, a belief that can not be demonstrated to be real. I'm sure its very real to you, but you can never convince anyone else that its true without..........OK....the scariest word for all Theists..........Evidence.

I think you need to realize what truth means, When you say "The TRUTH of God" you're i big trouble. It's a wonderful sounding phrase but total bullshit. Here......TRUTH, "That which is true or in accordance with FACT or REALITY. And FACT..."A piece of information used as EVIDENCE....or FACT.."that which is INDISPUTABLY the case. So as you can see, your flowery religious phrase is without merit.

Do you know how childish you sound when you state your beliefs as factual? "You were created by God for a purpose." You can't even prove this mythical being exists let alone has given us a purpose. When you do this, you are making a positive claim, "You were created by God for a purpose." The burden of proof now falls squarely on your shoulders, prove God exists, and then we ca move on to the purpose bullshit. So what was Hitlers purpose, how about John Wayne Gacey, or any number of psychopathic killers? Yeah, Yeah, they had a purpose but ignored Gods recommendations. LOL

Of course I can account for purpose and destiny. Why do you think this is such a huge mystery? I can only feel intense pity for you, unable to navigate through life without an imaginary outside agent, you poor bastard. I decide my pathway through life, I decide my purpose, I control, up to a point, my destiny, not some outside agent. Why is it so very difficult for you to accept that anyone can decide their purpose in life. I personally have devoted my life to the creative arts and passing on what I have learned to others. THIS IS MY PURPOSE IN LIFE. Others have chosen to improve the lives of others by devoting their live to medicine or the sciences.

I can't suppress this knowledge of God when there is NONE. Beyond you holy book, there is NO knowledge of God that is demonstrable within reality.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152777 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
There are NO laws that govern "Mind" only matter. And those laws may well have existed always.
Do you really want to make this argument.

If so, please support your reasoning.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152778 Feb 10, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't claim that I had those things "as an atheist" - I have them as a human being.
Again, we're not all as weak as you that we have do define ourselves by our views on religion. You really should expand your horizons.
I know you have them.

You know you have them.

You are missing the point.

As an atheist you cannot account for it.

Because you have to deny the self evident truth that you were intelligently created with a spiritual purpose, whilst claiming the right to that purpose.

As a matter of interest, what is your purpose?
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#152779 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sorry, but your argument that there is no evidence for Jesus is just downright absurd and not one I am even tempted to treat seriously.
Stop being such a coward, there are no CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT OF JESUS OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE. Now that is a FACT. Any other accounts of Jesus were written decades after his existence. That is also a FACT. Don't be a pussy, now, show me your evidence, and not your holy book, that shows that the Jesus you spastically believe in, existed.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152780 Feb 10, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, if there were evidence of any god's existence, it would be shown. It would be tested. It would be verified.
Never happened, never will.
It is shown, it is tested, by the very post you have here.

You argue absolutes, which can only be accounted for by an intelligent First Cause.

You have been built a certain way and the makers signature is written into every aspect of your life.

But due to your desire to sin, you have to deny your maker, whilst appealing to his workmanship as the basis for your denial.

Which is of course absurd, and fully explained in the scripture.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#152781 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>I am sorry, but your argument that there is no evidence for Jesus is just downright absurd and not one I am even tempted to treat seriously.
We knew that.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152782 Feb 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Like virtual particles?
Singing sand.
Showing you don't know what a virtual particle actually is. Or that their effects have been detected.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152783 Feb 10, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Sin is a man made concept used to control people.
You say that as if it is something wrong...

Are moral laws produced by secularism the same thing?

Obviously they are, so you would then be arguing against those as well...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152784 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you have them.
You know you have them.
You are missing the point.
As an atheist you cannot account for it.
Because you have to deny the self evident truth that you were intelligently created with a spiritual purpose, whilst claiming the right to that purpose.
As a matter of interest, what is your purpose?
We are intelligent beings that are able to plan. That makes our plans have purpose (our specific goals). We also get to plan aspects of our lives, which gives our lives purpose.*We* create the purpose.

No, it is not self-evident that were have been intelligently designed. If anything, it is evident that we are not.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#152785 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>The "truth" of God is self-evident to you, and to those who believe as you do, it is NOT at all self-evident to many others including myself. Your problem is that you start with a faulty premiss and then build everything around this premiss. It always comes down to whether or not your beliefs are TRUE. True in the demonstrable way. You have a belief, a belief that can not be demonstrated to be real. I'm sure its very real to you, but you can never convince anyone else that its true without..........OK....the scariest word for all Theists..........Evidence.

I think you need to realize what truth means, When you say "The TRUTH of God" you're i big trouble. It's a wonderful sounding phrase but total bullshit. Here......TRUTH, "That which is true or in accordance with FACT or REALITY. And FACT..."A piece of information used as EVIDENCE....or FACT.."that which is INDISPUTABLY the case. So as you can see, your flowery religious phrase is without merit.

Do you know how childish you sound when you state your beliefs as factual? "You were created by God for a purpose." You can't even prove this mythical being exists let alone has given us a purpose. When you do this, you are making a positive claim, "You were created by God for a purpose." The burden of proof now falls squarely on your shoulders, prove God exists, and then we ca move on to the purpose bullshit. So what was Hitlers purpose, how about John Wayne Gacey, or any number of psychopathic killers? Yeah, Yeah, they had a purpose but ignored Gods recommendations. LOL

Of course I can account for purpose and destiny. Why do you think this is such a huge mystery? I can only feel intense pity for you, unable to navigate through life without an imaginary outside agent, you poor bastard. I decide my pathway through life, I decide my purpose, I control, up to a point, my destiny, not some outside agent. Why is it so very difficult for you to accept that anyone can decide their purpose in life. I personally have devoted my life to the creative arts and passing on what I have learned to others. THIS IS MY PURPOSE IN LIFE. Others have chosen to improve the lives of others by devoting their live to medicine or the sciences.

I can't suppress this knowledge of God when there is NONE. Beyond you holy book, there is NO knowledge of God that is demonstrable within reality.
Well said.

And when you consider that the "purpose" that this god provides is to worship said god, the theists' "purpose" becomes even more absurd and, really, their life becomes a total waste.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152786 Feb 10, 2013
tabby wrote:
The conflict over the principles of evolution has become a religious war. But initiated by the evolutionary side of the argument. It really is no longer about scientific investigation. It's about the evolutionist demonizing any opposing view. Why?
Because if they allow one aspect of their theory to be closely scrutinized it all falls down like a house of cards. Why do you suppose evolutionists run from questions about the very foundation of their belief; How do we get from the inorganic world to the world of the cell? How did the non-living become the living? How can there be a Darwinian theory about life without a theory of how that life began? Therefore, the use of hyperbole and ad hominem attacks.
What atheism is actually at war with, is this fundamental truth:

"In the beginning, God..."

That warfare has been actively engaged in consistently over the last 200 years.

But now, they are no longer just given the free reign to preach it (barring the media and secular school system), because they can be opposed on the internet.

And that, is where the battle really lies these days.

Unfortunately, most arguments in the battle devolve into little more than name calling, often on both sides, which never really gets at the heart of the issue.

Christians should not be drawn into that, as that is a defeat as soon as we engage in that type of behaviour.

Atheists however, lacking any accountable absolute standard of morality, are free, in their eyes, to behave that way...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152787 Feb 10, 2013
River Tam wrote:
Stop worrying about where you came from and start thinking about where you're going.
So where are you going?

Decomposition seems the main purpose of atheism...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152788 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You say that as if it is something wrong...
Are moral laws produced by secularism the same thing?
Obviously they are, so you would then be arguing against those as well...
Not clear what you are asking:

1) Are the moral laws determined by humanism the same as those determined by religion? The clear answer is no: humanists are more likely to support gay marriage, for example. Because they see fairness as central, the unfairness of the denial of marriage simply because of sexual preference is wrong.

2) Are moral laws produced by secularism also based on trying to control people? No, the ultimate goal is human happiness and fulfillment, not control. Religion is the side obsessed with control.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... 2 hr Eagle 12 2,590
Christians More Supportive of Torture Than Non-... 2 hr QUITTNER Dec 24 2014 5
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 4 hr ChristineM 1,449
Can Atheists Know God Does Not Exist When They ... 5 hr polymath257 159
A New Kinder, Gentler Atheism 7 hr _Bad Company 192
Atheism: On the Rise? (Jan '13) 8 hr ratboyhunter 34
Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038 (Apr '12) 10 hr thetruth 23,228
More from around the web