Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Sep 08

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#152660
Feb 9, 2013
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, I have noted that before.
Origin: atheist
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
Origin:
1580–90; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
Origin: theist
1670–80; the-+-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theist...
The listing there doesn't list an origin date for: theism
Etymology online has a complete listing, too.
atheistic (adj.)
1630s, from atheist +-ic. Atheistical attested from c.1600.
atheist (n.)
1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see Thea).
atheism (n.)
1580s, from French athéisme (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god" (see atheist). A slightly earlier form is represented by atheonism (1530s) which is perhaps from Italian atheo "atheist." Ancient Greek atheotes meant "ungodliness."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
It means "without god", and more specifically, it means without a theistic belief, since theism is a belief.
The meaning of the root prefix, again.
a/n: not, without abyss – without bottom; achromatic – without color; anhydrous – without water
http://www.learnthat.org/pages/view/roots.htm...
The problem happens to be that words evolve along with our language, just as we do.
Many Dictionaries reflect the evolved meaning of the word.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
http://www.smartdefine.org/atheist
http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictiona...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...
A comprehensive look at what the word means in modern times, from the University of Cambridge.
http://www.investigatingatheism.info/definiti...
More.
http://www.lackofbelief.com/
http://thesaurus.com/browse/ungodly

Look at the synonyms.

Good company you keep there.

What is this irrational obsession in redefining a word whose common usage for a very long time has been to describe someone who denies the existence of deities, which then requires a belief? WTF is the big deal?

Why don't you just say you are apathetic about religion and such? You are taking sides with the choice of atheist.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

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#152661
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theism
You SHOULD note there was atheism before theism. Look in the derived terms and you will not see atheism.
Thank you, that is an interesting reference. Apparently still needs some work, but pretty good.

I Clicked on through to the Wiktionary page for "atheism" and it doesn't show "theism" as a derived term, so, like I said, it appears the Wiktionary still needs some work.

Also, according to Wiktionary, the etymology for "atheism" is from a-("without") plus theos ("deity, god"). Which is real interesting as it also stated on the "theism" page that "theism" is originally from Ancient Greek theos ("god"). So the order in which tese 2 words were attested in English seems a bit moot.

And it noted a number of definitions --

1.(narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs).

2.(broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist).

3.(very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities).

Which would indicate that any general statement about atheism or atheists should consider only the very broadest definition if one it at all concerned with honest representation.

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#152662
Feb 9, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>No, I don't.

Langoliers wrote, "If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?"

Because there is no proof of there being deities, and myth best fits the stories about the deities that theists believe in.

Noun: myth
1. A traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. A traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people.
WordWeb Pro 6.0

That is an accurate term.
Langoliers wrote, "You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods."

Langoliers wrote, "The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.
Sorry but you lose."

No, all atheist lack one thing, a theist belief that there are deities.

Some may express that in many different ways.

If I were a gnostic atheist, things might be different, but I'm not.

I am a non-theist, I am an atheist.
You do not lack a Theist believe you have an atheist believe. You have a positive assertion that no God or gods exist. You are one here for one reason and that is to spread your positive assertion that God does not exist.

This is self evident proof.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

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#152663
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "
OK, then we will just say you are confused.
Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist. Unless you were abandoned by the gods.
But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.
You're being disingenuous.

As was just stated in the cited reference from Wiktionary:

atheism - Rejection of belief that any deities exist; absence of belief that any deities exist

agnosticism - absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable; the existence of deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable; Doubt, uncertainty, or skepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.

The line between "absence of belief" and "doubt or skepticism about the existence of deities" would make agnosticism and atheism related terms that often could be interchangeable.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#152664
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Still You can't answer this question?
Do You believe there is no God or gods?
If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?
You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods. The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.
Sorry but you still lose.
I have not seen heard smelled felt or tasted a god, but YOU say there is one. You believe there's a god. I don't believe you.
Therefore either you prove there is a god or shut the fuck up.
Because I believe things I can see hear feel taste and or smell.
Produce a god and I will believe you.

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#152665
Feb 9, 2013
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
You're being disingenuous.
As was just stated in the cited reference from Wiktionary:
atheism - Rejection of belief that any deities exist; absence of belief that any deities exist
agnosticism - absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable; the existence of deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable; Doubt, uncertainty, or skepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.
The line between "absence of belief" and "doubt or skepticism about the existence of deities" would make agnosticism and atheism related terms that often could be interchangeable.
Amusing.

I was an atheist for 50 years. I've had countless discussions on the subject, used much the same basis for it as you guys, a disbelief in Bible God at first. For the record, I still don't believe in that version. But the difference between you and me was I didn't tell others they were stupid for believing, or get into knock down drag outs with them. I gave arguments for why I believed what I did. I denied the existence of gods. It was my belief. I had no reason to weasel words to define myself.

I will say this kindly.

YOU WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT A FUCKING ATHEIST IS OR ISN'T.

My present views are fairly recent. I do not subscribe to a particular god or belief system. I am just aware, reinforced heavily by an understanding of physics and systems.

“The eye has it...”

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#152666
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://thesaurus.com/browse/ungodly
Look at the synonyms.
Good company you keep there.
What is this irrational obsession in redefining a word whose common usage for a very long time has been to describe someone who denies the existence of deities, which then requires a belief? WTF is the big deal?
I supplied numerous definitions from respected dictionaries that are in line with and accurately reflect a correct and modern usage of the term atheist or atheism.

So, obviously, it isn't just atheists that don't agree with the definitions you find in Merriam-Websters etc...
Dave Nelson wrote:
Why don't you just say you are apathetic about religion and such?
Probably because I don't have an apathetic stance concerning the subject.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are taking sides with the choice of atheist.


Correct. I'm an atheist.

“The eye has it...”

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#152667
Feb 9, 2013
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not lack a Theist believe you have an atheist believe. You have a positive assertion that no God or gods exist. You are one here for one reason and that is to spread your positive assertion that God does not exist.
This is self evident proof.
Nope, I've never said "no gods exist".

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#152668
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing.
I was an atheist for 50 years. I've had countless discussions on the subject, used much the same basis for it as you guys, a disbelief in Bible God at first. For the record, I still don't believe in that version. But the difference between you and me was I didn't tell others they were stupid for believing, or get into knock down drag outs with them. I gave arguments for why I believed what I did. I denied the existence of gods. It was my belief. I had no reason to weasel words to define myself.
I will say this kindly.
YOU WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT A FUCKING ATHEIST IS OR ISN'T.
My present views are fairly recent. I do not subscribe to a particular god or belief system. I am just aware, reinforced heavily by an understanding of physics and systems.
Magneto is your god. lol

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Since: Mar 11

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#152669
Feb 9, 2013
 
You are the one who confessed to torturing animals as a child and you dream about your Jesus having non believers tortured for eternity. How can you possibly be a bigger sadist? Now compare all your sadist talk to yourself and Jesus.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s pretty evident that you are a sadist by what you have written. You seem to enjoy being abusive and cruel. By your reaction to my comments we must have struck a chord with you.
That’s good because your behavior is anti social and not considered normal by no means. This sadism is something Jeffery Dahmer had and other mass murders including BTK.
The recent case of this man taking a kid hostage after murdering his bus driver. Then keeping this 5 year old hostage in a bunker is also another example of sadism. The man had reported beat one of the neighbors dog to death with a pipe.
Anti social behavior is not good, not at all. You have some real deep seated issues and you need to get help. I have no way to know if you have harmed others in a physical sense. If you have you need to turn yourself in.

“The eye has it...”

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#152670
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
YOU WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT A FUCKING ATHEIST IS OR ISN'T.
Thanks, again, for illustrating what is being discussed here, and that no one can tell you what an atheist is or isn't, and that what is found in a dictionary, or reference source, while many people may agree, but not all do.

But there are definitions that do suit a persons stance, and those are available.

Thanks, Dave. You proved my point, flawlessly.

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#152671
Feb 9, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> I supplied numerous definitions from respected dictionaries that are in line with and accurately reflect a correct and modern usage of the term atheist or atheism.
So, obviously, it isn't just atheists that don't agree with the definitions you find in Merriam-Websters etc...
<quoted text> Probably because I don't have an apathetic stance concerning the subject.
<quoted text>
Correct. I'm an atheist.
Then you have a belief system, with the attendant faith requirement to sustain that belief.

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#152672
Feb 9, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Magneto is your god. lol
http://cdn1.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads...
No, it is that which turns, or causes the magneto to turn.

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#152673
Feb 9, 2013
 
We have moved past 1570. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive terms as has been explained to you umpteenth times.

I see you are one of those Christians who bleats, don't call yourself an atheist! Call yourself anything but that! Bleat bleat bleat.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "
OK, then we will just say you are confused.
Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist. Unless you were abandoned by the gods.
But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.

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#152674
Feb 9, 2013
 
Magneto Christ!

Lol!
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Magneto is your god. lol
http://cdn1.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads...

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#152675
Feb 9, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
We have moved past 1570. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive terms as has been explained to you umpteenth times.
I see you are one of those Christians who bleats, don't call yourself an atheist! Call yourself anything but that! Bleat bleat bleat.
<quoted text>
It would be nice if you had the intelligence, and even more important, the mental maturity, to carry on a real discussion with.

“The eye has it...”

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#152676
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you have a belief system, with the attendant faith requirement to sustain that belief.
Describe that belief system.

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#152677
Feb 9, 2013
 
Aww Dave is going full Christian apologetic arguments now. The tired old atheism is a religion fallacy right on time.

And yes Dave we will tell you what an atheist is when you get it wrong.

You're very welcome.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you have a belief system, with the attendant faith requirement to sustain that belief.

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#152678
Feb 9, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, again, for illustrating what is being discussed here, and that no one can tell you what an atheist is or isn't, and that what is found in a dictionary, or reference source, while many people may agree, but not all do.
But there are definitions that do suit a persons stance, and those are available.
Thanks, Dave. You proved my point, flawlessly.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/quibbler

That is what you are.

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#152679
Feb 9, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Describe that belief system.
That if you keep your head up your ass, and quibble a lot, you will never find proof of a deity or order of higher intelligence.

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