Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247385 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152647 Feb 9, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Merriam-Webster
Atheist not atheism.
Pay attention.
athe·ist\ˈā-thē-ist\
noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
Why would I take anything you supply now as anything more than deceit.

Which you're doing again. In the original post, you supplied the wrong definition of - atheism.

Definition of THEISM

: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the...

I don't have - a belief in the existence of a god or gods -, nor do I rule them out.

I don't have a theist belief.

Root meaning of - a: not, without

atheist: not - theist without - theism

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#152648 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I take anything you supply now as anything more than deceit.
Which you're doing again. In the original post, you supplied the wrong definition of - atheism.
Definition of THEISM
: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the...
I don't have - a belief in the existence of a god or gods -, nor do I rule them out.
I don't have a theist belief.
Root meaning of - a: not, without
atheist: not - theist without - theism
You are a confused agnostic.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

I don't believe your shifting letters to redefine to suit yourself works. Look at the root words and dates.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#152649 Feb 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>Catcher white sheet has been drawn.

You no longer exist.
Noooooooooo..........

help me..........

goodbye cruel world..........

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#152650 Feb 9, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Fundy logic doesn't equate to normal reality.
You said there is a god, now prove it.
Still You can't answer this question?

Do You believe there is no God or gods?

If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?

You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods. The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.

Sorry but you still lose.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#152651 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>Why would I take anything you supply now as anything more than deceit.

Which you're doing again. In the original post, you supplied the wrong definition of - atheism.

Definition of THEISM

: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the...

I don't have - a belief in the existence of a god or gods -, nor do I rule them out.

I don't have a theist belief.

Root meaning of - a: not, without

atheist: not - theist without - theism
Do You believe there is no God or gods?

If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?

You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods. The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.

Sorry but you lose.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#152652 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I take anything you supply now as anything more than deceit.
Which you're doing again. In the original post, you supplied the wrong definition of - atheism.
Definition of THEISM
: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the...
I don't have - a belief in the existence of a god or gods -, nor do I rule them out.
I don't have a theist belief.
Root meaning of - a: not, without
atheist: not - theist without - theism
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theism

You SHOULD note there was atheism before theism. Look in the derived terms and you will not see atheism.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152653 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a confused agnostic.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
I don't believe your shifting letters to redefine to suit yourself works. Look at the root words and dates.
Thanks for supporting what I've been pointing out.

An atheist does not have the theist belief there is a god or gods.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152654 Feb 9, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
Do You believe there is no God or gods?
No, I don't.
Langoliers wrote:
If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?
Because there is no proof of there being deities, and myth best fits the stories about the deities that theists believe in.

Noun: myth
1. A traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. A traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people.
WordWeb Pro 6.0

That is an accurate term.
Langoliers wrote:
You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods.
Langoliers wrote:
The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.
Sorry but you lose.
No, all atheist lack one thing, a theist belief that there are deities.

Some may express that in many different ways.

If I were a gnostic atheist, things might be different, but I'm not.

I am a non-theist, I am an atheist.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#152655 Feb 9, 2013
zander714 wrote:
When we leave this world, we are going back to God himself.
When we die, we stop to exist and our body rots away

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#152656 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for supporting what I've been pointing out.
An atheist does not have the theist belief there is a god or gods.
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "

OK, then we will just say you are confused.

Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist. Unless you were abandoned by the gods.

But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#152657 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "
OK, then we will just say you are confused.
Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist. Unless you were abandoned by the gods.
But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.
Agnosticism and atheism answer two different questions: whether the existence of god is known and whether the existence of god is believed.

Virtually all people who call themselves agnostics are atheists, and vice versa.

I do not know of the existence of any gods, so I am an agnostic. Without evidence, I choose not to believe, so I am also an atheist.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152658 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theism
You SHOULD note there was atheism before theism. Look in the derived terms and you will not see atheism.
Yes, I have noted that before.

Origin: atheist
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
Origin:
1580–90; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...

Origin: theist
1670–80; the-+-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theist...
The listing there doesn't list an origin date for: theism

Etymology online has a complete listing, too.

atheistic (adj.)
1630s, from atheist +-ic. Atheistical attested from c.1600.

atheist (n.)
1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see Thea).

atheism (n.)
1580s, from French athéisme (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god" (see atheist). A slightly earlier form is represented by atheonism (1530s) which is perhaps from Italian atheo "atheist." Ancient Greek atheotes meant "ungodliness."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

It means "without god", and more specifically, it means without a theistic belief, since theism is a belief.

The meaning of the root prefix, again.
a/n: not, without abyss – without bottom; achromatic – without color; anhydrous – without water
http://www.learnthat.org/pages/view/roots.htm...

The problem happens to be that words evolve along with our language, just as we do.

Many Dictionaries reflect the evolved meaning of the word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
http://www.smartdefine.org/atheist
http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictiona...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...

A comprehensive look at what the word means in modern times, from the University of Cambridge.
http://www.investigatingatheism.info/definiti...

More.
http://www.lackofbelief.com/

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152659 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "
Right. Without a god.
Dave Nelson wrote:
OK, then we will just say you are confused.
No, you're confused.

How can I have a belief in a deity or deities if I don't have a god?
Dave Nelson wrote:
Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist.
No, it doesn't. An agnostic has neither a belief or a disbelief concerning deities. They think it is unknowable.

But, I'm not an agnostic, and I wouldn't insist that applies to all agnostics. I'm fine with an agnostic defining what it means to be an agnostic to them.

I'm the same way with Christians, or any person from a religion. If they say they are of a particular religion or denomination, I don't define it for them.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Unless you were abandoned by the gods.
What gods? Which gods?
Dave Nelson wrote:
But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.
No, atheist just happens to be the accurate term in my instance.

Thanks, Dave, for allowing me to clarify this even further.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#152660 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, I have noted that before.
Origin: atheist
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
Origin:
1580–90; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless +-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
Origin: theist
1670–80; the-+-ism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theist...
The listing there doesn't list an origin date for: theism
Etymology online has a complete listing, too.
atheistic (adj.)
1630s, from atheist +-ic. Atheistical attested from c.1600.
atheist (n.)
1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see Thea).
atheism (n.)
1580s, from French athéisme (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god" (see atheist). A slightly earlier form is represented by atheonism (1530s) which is perhaps from Italian atheo "atheist." Ancient Greek atheotes meant "ungodliness."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
It means "without god", and more specifically, it means without a theistic belief, since theism is a belief.
The meaning of the root prefix, again.
a/n: not, without abyss – without bottom; achromatic – without color; anhydrous – without water
http://www.learnthat.org/pages/view/roots.htm...
The problem happens to be that words evolve along with our language, just as we do.
Many Dictionaries reflect the evolved meaning of the word.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheis...
http://www.smartdefine.org/atheist
http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictiona...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...
A comprehensive look at what the word means in modern times, from the University of Cambridge.
http://www.investigatingatheism.info/definiti...
More.
http://www.lackofbelief.com/
http://thesaurus.com/browse/ungodly

Look at the synonyms.

Good company you keep there.

What is this irrational obsession in redefining a word whose common usage for a very long time has been to describe someone who denies the existence of deities, which then requires a belief? WTF is the big deal?

Why don't you just say you are apathetic about religion and such? You are taking sides with the choice of atheist.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#152661 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theism
You SHOULD note there was atheism before theism. Look in the derived terms and you will not see atheism.
Thank you, that is an interesting reference. Apparently still needs some work, but pretty good.

I Clicked on through to the Wiktionary page for "atheism" and it doesn't show "theism" as a derived term, so, like I said, it appears the Wiktionary still needs some work.

Also, according to Wiktionary, the etymology for "atheism" is from a-("without") plus theos ("deity, god"). Which is real interesting as it also stated on the "theism" page that "theism" is originally from Ancient Greek theos ("god"). So the order in which tese 2 words were attested in English seems a bit moot.

And it noted a number of definitions --

1.(narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs).

2.(broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist).

3.(very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities).

Which would indicate that any general statement about atheism or atheists should consider only the very broadest definition if one it at all concerned with honest representation.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#152662 Feb 9, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>No, I don't.

Langoliers wrote, "If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?"

Because there is no proof of there being deities, and myth best fits the stories about the deities that theists believe in.

Noun: myth
1. A traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. A traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people.
WordWeb Pro 6.0

That is an accurate term.
Langoliers wrote, "You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods."

Langoliers wrote, "The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.
Sorry but you lose."

No, all atheist lack one thing, a theist belief that there are deities.

Some may express that in many different ways.

If I were a gnostic atheist, things might be different, but I'm not.

I am a non-theist, I am an atheist.
You do not lack a Theist believe you have an atheist believe. You have a positive assertion that no God or gods exist. You are one here for one reason and that is to spread your positive assertion that God does not exist.

This is self evident proof.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#152663 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" "
OK, then we will just say you are confused.
Agnostic fits your pronounced non-belief better than atheist. Unless you were abandoned by the gods.
But I am sure atheist sounds cooler to you.
You're being disingenuous.

As was just stated in the cited reference from Wiktionary:

atheism - Rejection of belief that any deities exist; absence of belief that any deities exist

agnosticism - absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable; the existence of deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable; Doubt, uncertainty, or skepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.

The line between "absence of belief" and "doubt or skepticism about the existence of deities" would make agnosticism and atheism related terms that often could be interchangeable.

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#152664 Feb 9, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Still You can't answer this question?
Do You believe there is no God or gods?
If you answer no then why do you attack Theists and call their faith a myth?
You do this because you do have a positive assertion that there is no God or gods. The facts are posted all over these threads by atheist and you with a positive assertion that there is no such thing as a God or gods.
Sorry but you still lose.
I have not seen heard smelled felt or tasted a god, but YOU say there is one. You believe there's a god. I don't believe you.
Therefore either you prove there is a god or shut the fuck up.
Because I believe things I can see hear feel taste and or smell.
Produce a god and I will believe you.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#152665 Feb 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
You're being disingenuous.
As was just stated in the cited reference from Wiktionary:
atheism - Rejection of belief that any deities exist; absence of belief that any deities exist
agnosticism - absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable; the existence of deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable; Doubt, uncertainty, or skepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.
The line between "absence of belief" and "doubt or skepticism about the existence of deities" would make agnosticism and atheism related terms that often could be interchangeable.
Amusing.

I was an atheist for 50 years. I've had countless discussions on the subject, used much the same basis for it as you guys, a disbelief in Bible God at first. For the record, I still don't believe in that version. But the difference between you and me was I didn't tell others they were stupid for believing, or get into knock down drag outs with them. I gave arguments for why I believed what I did. I denied the existence of gods. It was my belief. I had no reason to weasel words to define myself.

I will say this kindly.

YOU WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT A FUCKING ATHEIST IS OR ISN'T.

My present views are fairly recent. I do not subscribe to a particular god or belief system. I am just aware, reinforced heavily by an understanding of physics and systems.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152666 Feb 9, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://thesaurus.com/browse/ungodly
Look at the synonyms.
Good company you keep there.
What is this irrational obsession in redefining a word whose common usage for a very long time has been to describe someone who denies the existence of deities, which then requires a belief? WTF is the big deal?
I supplied numerous definitions from respected dictionaries that are in line with and accurately reflect a correct and modern usage of the term atheist or atheism.

So, obviously, it isn't just atheists that don't agree with the definitions you find in Merriam-Websters etc...
Dave Nelson wrote:
Why don't you just say you are apathetic about religion and such?
Probably because I don't have an apathetic stance concerning the subject.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are taking sides with the choice of atheist.


Correct. I'm an atheist.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 1 hr JustASkeptic 12,637
News As an atheist, how do I maintain my relationshi... 4 hr thetruth 21
Proof of God for the Atheist 5 hr thetruth 116
News Why Atheism Will Replace Religion (Aug '12) 15 hr JustASkeptic 14,714
News In America, atheists are still in the closet (Apr '12) 16 hr -Stray Dog 47,794
News Atheism, the Bible and sexual orientation 18 hr par five 6
News Militant Atheists are On the March 19 hr thetruth 4
More from around the web