Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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#152415
Feb 8, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
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Not on moral principals, no.
Your moral system contradicts itself. It fails right there by YOUR OWN standards.
<quoted text>
You don't even know what my morality is. You're very desperate to get off the topic of your moral system and its failings.
You don't play well when people actually call you out on all the holes in your beliefs. Doesn't fit your script.
Still avoiding the question, as to how you account for the absolute morality that you appeal to constantly and deny exist on the other hand I see.

Avoiding the question, does not mean you have presented an argument.

It just shows you do not have the courage to put your own worldview out there for examination.

But rather hide behind attacking others...

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#152416
Feb 8, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Sorry you senile around so much it's easy to confuse you and John McCain. Nothing to do with politics just your dementia.
What links do you want to see Senile Dave?
<quoted text>
The one of your creation in particular. You know, your momma and those guys? One of those 15 should be your daddy.

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#152417
Feb 8, 2013
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
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We don't though. We all disagree on different levels. We all seem to agree on some things... but like i was pointing out with the hostage situation, some we disagree on. The funny thing is... nobody is bringing up these situations. Instead... the atheists are pointing out the immoral things in the bible and acting as if you would agree with them... and the Christians dodge that and tell the atheists that they have no way to be moral or that they are lying because their bible says so.... and I'm sorry but we are all full of it. None of us are rapists that i know of... something ELSE is going on and that is what we disagree with.
<quoted text>
Please explain what "transcendent" laws of morality are and how you know this.
<quoted text>
As a skeptical human being I do not see any reason to believe in a god. This has nothing to do with accounting for morals. However, for whatever reason it may be, I find the thought of another human being unnecessarily harmed in any way to make me feel pain. I have empathy and wish for equality. I do not want to hurt anyone and i don't need the fear of god or hell to keep me from harming someone. If someone does need that fear... they need psychological help.
<quoted text>
What action could please someone enough to ignore being tortured for eternity assuming they believed they knew that was the consequence?
If anything i think if atheists really did believe in god... it would show how morals are higher than god. I would say... if Abraham chose not to kill his son... it would be a more moral action that obeying God.
How do you feel about that kind of rejection?
Would it be immoral of Abraham to reject god and not kill his son?
Can you explain why Atheists make appeals to absolute moral standards?

That is the point I am making.

By the way, I am not a holder of the eternally burning sinner in hell position.

I do not believe it is warranted from the scripture (but thats another topic).

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#152418
Feb 8, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
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"First cause" can be a quantum fluctuation or a singularity exploding. It can also be the exhaust fumes of some space craft, or the formation of an atom belonging to some pond scum in another universe. Your assuming it's a god, and your specific god, makes you a failure at logic.
Lot of faith going on there.

Interesting how it can be "anything but God"...

Why would you suppress that one singular option?

Of course, my argument being true, we do not need to answer that, when we fully know that that is the one thing your sinful nature desires to suppress.

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#152419
Feb 8, 2013
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
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Wow. Shocked again.
Am i summarizing this correctly?
He said that rape and slavery is condoned in the bible.
Your response was " why would you care?".
You didn't deny it or account for it or even try to pull the out-of-context (because you know its immoral so you have to account for it) card.
You instead tried to show that he is either in fact fine with rape or that he actually does believe in god and that is why he isn't a rapist who is ok with slavery.
This is a problem for you if the bible condones slavery and rape...
Which brings us right back to his comment to you and renders your entire response meaningless unless you do at the very least try to make an excuse for the Bible
First of all, I do not accept his anti-theistic interprestion.

Second, on what basis, in his worldview, does he offer the moral outrage that he presents?

He cannot.

But rather appeals to the laws (corrupted as they are by sin in him), that he denies...

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#152420
Feb 8, 2013
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
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I thought intellect came as a trick from a talking snake that made us all born sinners. That is a horrible gift.
Carnal reasoning is not intellect.

Reasoning apart from God, is not intellect.

It is foolishness.

Why would reasoning from a narrow perspective be better than reasoning along with the loving Creator of the universe.

You are equivocating here.

Not good.

I expect better from you.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#152421
Feb 8, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism:
"The fool says in his heart, there is no God."
"whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

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#152422
Feb 8, 2013
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
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No. You don't have to know all the answers to point out failure.
If x+21=28 and x+42=49.... and the problem was to solve x+64=?
If your answer was either "64,864,953,854" or "purple giraffe"... i dont have to know the answer to see you went wrong here.
Or maybe see it from our perspective...
If you saw my phone bill... and it said i paid $39.99 for 450 min... and i told you my bill shows the truth and i have 1400 min.... this is self contradiction... you don't have to have verizon to know something is wrong here.
But then you have to account for logical mathematics...

You see, you cannot escape the atheistic predicament.

Atheism cannot account for any transcendent law, that is self evident in the universe.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#152423
Feb 8, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you explain why Atheists make appeals to absolute moral standards?
That is the point I am making.
By the way, I am not a holder of the eternally burning sinner in hell position.
I do not believe it is warranted from the scripture (but thats another topic).
You are the only one trying to claim societal morals are "absolute". But you've yet to provide independently verifiable evidence for such a claim.

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#152424
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
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There is mucho truth in what you say.
Topix atheists have the freedom to define reality the way they feel it should be, the world be damned. They will exercise their rights. Deal with it, world.
Astute observation.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#152425
Feb 8, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
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But then you have to account for logical mathematics...
You see, you cannot escape the atheistic predicament.
Atheism cannot account for any transcendent law, that is self evident in the universe.
You keep making stuff up.

"Transcendence" refers to the aspect of God's nature and power which is wholly independent of (and removed from) the material universe.

You have yet to prove that the concept of "independent / removed / outside the universe" is even meaningful possible. Do that and then you can work on what evidence you have of any intelligence behind it.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#152426
Feb 8, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>Love.

1. Love God - your Creator.
2. Love your neighbour - His Creation.
Don't need god for that.

And love isn't absolute.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#152427
Feb 8, 2013
 
It's not a false claim.~40% of fertilised eggs don't make it.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
And why would that be wrong,(leaving aside the falsity of the claim), in your worldview?

“There is no god!”

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#152428
Feb 8, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism:
"The fool says in his heart, there is no God."
whoever says,‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire

“There is no god!”

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#152429
Feb 8, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
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So "anything goes" is your standard of morality?
nope.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#152430
Feb 8, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, I do not accept his anti-theistic interprestion.
Second, on what basis, in his worldview, does he offer the moral outrage that he presents?
Humanism. No deity required.

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#152431
Feb 8, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text> Humanism. No deity required.
What is humanism?

What is humanist, and what is not?

What did it arise from? How did it come into being?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#152432
Feb 8, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
What is humanism?
What is humanist, and what is not?
What did it arise from? How did it come into being?
" http://lmgtfy.com/... ;

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#152433
Feb 8, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
What is humanism?
What is humanist, and what is not?
What did it arise from? How did it come into being?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#152434
Feb 8, 2013
 

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geeez, Dave

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