Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Apr 09

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#152315
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
No.
Historical fact.
Ignorant much?
Yes, you really are if you believe that BS

LOL

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

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#152316
Feb 7, 2013
 
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Every Catholic Church I have ever been in features a life size Christ on the cross. Always front and center. People kneel before this crucifix and pray, they are doing something they shouldn't? Maybe the Vatican should be informed of all these people kneeling and praying before Christ on the cross.
My question was not why did God let so many people die in World war 11, rather I was addressing the effect of prayer. You say God answers prayer, and seemingly on a rather consistent level. But he didn't answer any of the prayers of the millions of jews who undoubtably prayed as they had never prayed before. I'm wondering if it seems reasonable to you, that God would refuse to answer so many prayers and for so many desperate people? Its not like they were praying for a long lost spouse, or to find their car keys. These poor people were praying for their wives, their children, brother, sisters. The horrors that were inflicted on them, on their children, who they must have beseeched God for help. But he simple sat and watched as millions died in agony and despair. How can anyone who believes in God, believing what you believe about his power. A being who can create an entire universe and all things in it, could help these poor souls with a snap of his fingers, yet he did nothing. Does that seem at all reasonable to you? Please spare me the "Who can know the mind of God"......and "God works in mysterious ways" All that is, is a huge copout, it means you know there is a serious conflict inside you, so you think this will heal the wrong you must feel. You have to feel, you have to because you are a reasonable person. You use reason and logic in everything you do, why do you suspend it when it comes to the actions, or in this case the non-actions of God?
No conflict inside me my good Doctor. All humans will pass through deaths door. We were guaranteed that experience when we were born.

I know that through this very horrific war, a new nation was born. Many Jews were saved and many were lost. Yes, God allowed it to happen and God also allowed Germany to be defeated. The cruelty was done by mankind to mankind and the cruelty continues even to this day.

World History is very ugly my good Doctor. This ugliness started when Cain killed his brother Able. Men have the ability to have children or make life. And they have the ability to take life.

Iím not Catholic and I will never bow down to a graven image. I donít agree with what they do but at the same time I want them to have the freedom to worship as they desire.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#152317
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical data is the supporting evidence. Are you asserting then that the data is wrong, or that the witnesses were lying? Then you would have to provide evidence, not the dead, who cannot.
The Age of Reason and Enlightenment was no such thing. I see you dropped the Renaissance, probably realizing you were wrong.
The Church Fathers words are available on the Internet, you may read their arguments at your leisure.
Secular is a made up word that means nothing to us. Religion includes everything, including science and sociology, for religion deals with everything. Only the anti-religious assert that some things are "secular" and created a word for that. That does not make the concept a valid one. Do you have a valid argument to assert that something is "secular?" Eating a hamburger is secular? Not to us, we thank God for it.
"The idea that they HAD any proof is your claim and you must support it."
You assert that I must prove that the dead were not lying? You just outed yourself as anti-science, and stupid. The burden of proof is on you, and you know it.
It is baffling that you are not aware of the the evidence that is so readily available. there is more evidence for Jesus than even Julius Caesar. The Bible is the most well preserved document on earth, reliably copied for centuries, while most of the works of the Romans were lost.
That is what is baffling. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof after centuries of information being handed down generation after generation.
You don't just get to say ... "hey, wait a minute, how do I know all you people for the last 2000 years were telling the truth?"
Well, prove that they were not then.
If a story in a book about a deity, or the belief a person has is proof enough of a deity being real, then all deities are real. If a story in a book about a deity, or the belief a person has in a deity isn't proof enough of a deity being real. Then none of the deities are real.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#152318
Feb 7, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
We are smarter than ancient peoples. And more educated. And have infinitely greater access to knowledge. And have superior reporting. And have more free time.
~90% of the people in Palestine couldn't even read. They had no little knowledge of math and virtually no science. They knew what they needed to know to survive, like farming and maybe a trade skill.
Jesus' time was an era of superstition and credulity.
Do you think Romans praying to Ceres were doing scientific analysis on the affects of prayer at her temple to crop growth? No. They prayed, they got some crops, they thanked her.
We are smarter than ancient peoples?

Then you must not have read much about them.

We most certainly are not. We might have ore knowledge about science and technology, but that does not make us smarter, that just raises our standard of living.

More educated? How so? Or are you mistaking knowledge with intelligence again? Humans work with what they have, and no matter how little they have, their intelligence does not change.

More free time? Maybe, but that does not make people more intelligent. That just gives them time to acquire more knowledge.

No, Jesus's time was amazingly complex, and you demonstrate a profoundly uneducated mind. You obviously have no idea how complex the world was then, do you?

The temples were banking firms, you blithering fool. Ceres was an investment firm for crops. The banking empires of Delos and Rhodes ruled much of the world. They had lines of credit. They had bread-making factories run by water through aqueducts. They had hot and cold running water aboard luxury ships in Lake Nemi. That SPECIFIC age was marked by atheism, they were not superstitious in general, no one cared about religion, except the Jews. The Kingdom of Armenia was playing two empires like fiddles. Cunobelin was busy keeping Britannia free from Rome, the Romen princeps were busy trying to restore family values, abortion and exposure was the order of the day, and the Romans entered a population decline and had to make slaves into citizens to balance things out.

And Judaea was in the heart of it all, between two megalithic empires, on the trade route to the Han Dynasty (The Serica as they were known then.) Northern India was still busy trying to maintain Ashoka's empire, and suffering a cultural crisis from Bactria and Greek influence from Alexander. The Himyar were at their height of culture and trade in competition with the Nabataeans. The Garamantes had their vast farms in the Sahara where the desert had not yet buried them. The Saka were stirring, and preparing for migrations Westward, eventually pushing out other natives who would centuries later invade Europe.

You javen't got the faintest clue what was going on then, or how unbelievably complex, exciting, and intricate was life. No, fool, they would laugh at us, and our lazy and meaningless life as we play Black Ops and watch porn. We exploit the world. They MADE THE WORLD as we know it.

Gosh, ignorance like yours makes me angry.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

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#152319
Feb 7, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you canít sustain that belief with knowledge then perhaps itís time to re-asses your ideology.[Tipping Hat]
Re-asses?

Like, backsides?

Buttocks?

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

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#152320
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No kidding, really?
But that is not porn, that is good sex.
Porn shows women being struck across the face and ejaculations into their mouth.
Or maybe you haven't actual seen what is common place these days, eh?
It's ain't your grandma's Playboy, let me tell. It's not even Penthouse, which is very tasteful by today's standards.
No, bro, Christianity has done more for women than any other religion or institution on earth, by far. We ended contract marriages where women were slaves, and made marriage sacred.
You people are just trying to drag us by the hair to pagan times when sex was so all-important, that women were raped and abused, and children neglected, in epic proportions.
What a sick and twisted person you are.
Stick with the lesbian porn. That's what I do.

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#152321
Feb 7, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, your comment tells me you lack the sophistication to counter with a intellectual response. Iím not going to call you stupid because one, itís impolite. Two it serves absolutely no purpose. Three, who am I to judge your intellect?
People who call someone else stupid are generally relaying a feeling of inadequacy in their inner being. A inward frustration that they canít do more because a lack of education or discipline in their life. Generally it comes down to oneís inferior self-esteem.
My advice to you would be to donít get frustrated but dig deeper into what you believe. If you canít sustain that belief with knowledge then perhaps itís time to re-asses your ideology.[Tipping Hat]
Your argument was defeated the moment you claimed that all atheists shared the same belief about anything. The only commonality amongst all atheists is the lack of a belief in a god.

But, hey, nice attempt at a dodge.

As for what I believe, here's one thing - the Holocaust was a horrifying nightmare of the most inhumane sort that served no purpose and from which no good came.

Unlike you, who believes "Hey, at least they got Israel for it!"

That tells us everything we need to know about you.

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#152322
Feb 7, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's all in fun, Dave.
Don't be angry.
I'm not.

Uh, no video games for you tonight.

Give me your cellphone.

Here's some magnets and some string. Learn something tonight.

Since: Sep 10

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#152323
Feb 7, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't be coz i peel it with hands, i'll check label next time.
Well, some fruit are sexy looking!
I'm not sweet, please don't eat me, please!!!
Yeah, figs are sexy looking.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#152324
Feb 7, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gospels are legends made to lay down a religion. They're no more historical than the accounts of Muhammad talking to Allah or Joseph Smith meeting an angel or Buddha achieving Nirvana.
<quoted text>
Completely untrue. People believe ridiculous things without evidence all the time. You don't apply this standard to any other religion.
Then prove they are legends, and that the witnesses were liars.

It should be simple, if true.

Not so with Islam, sorry. Muhammad had no witnesses at all, and was illiterate. No apostles at all, and therefore, no peer-reviewed evidence. The Bible is a written account of the events themselves, and correlates with events from outside sources.

Not even the Jews deny Jesus, who above all had the motive and the opportunity to do so, since they regarded him as a sorcerer. Had Christians been lying, they would have been the FIRST to note that in the historical records, or not noted it at all, which would have been enough to suggest it never happened.

Every bit of ancient evidence shows us that something very unusually happened on the fringe of the Roman Empire, where the Empire fought against one uprising after another, leading after the Third Jewish War to its demise and withdrawal from the Indian Ocean for which it briefly reached.

No, neither Muhammad, nor Joseph Smith, have witnesses, or good arguments. But that has never been the problem of Christianity, which merged from nowhere, a full-blown church with it's rituals intact, as if everything they knew was taught by someone directly. We have heaps upon heaps of evidence.

But let me guess, the Bible does count for you, or the records of the Church, right? Too biased?

Sorry, that won't fly either. You don't get to pick and choose which evidence is valid. If you suspect bias, then show where it lies. The burden is on you, not any Christian.

Since: Dec 11

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#152325
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical data is the supporting evidence.
Stop being vague. What historical data?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
The Age of Reason and Enlightenment was no such thing.


Yes, they were. Science is the promotion of knowledge through reason and observation, rather than revelation.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
I see you dropped the Renaissance, probably realizing you were wrong.
You brought up the Renaissance.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Secular is a made up word that means nothing to us.
It has a clear meaning. Pretending a word doesn't have meaning doesn't make the meaning go away.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Religion includes everything, including science and sociology, for religion deals with everything.
Science and sociology are not INHERENTLY religious, at all. That's what secular means.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Only the anti-religious assert that some things are "secular" and created a word for that. That does not make the concept a valid one. Do you have a valid argument to assert that something is "secular?" Eating a hamburger is secular? Not to us, we thank God for it.
lol. YOU adding a religious connotation to something doesn't make that thing inherently religious.

Is eating a hamburger inherently competitive? Well I can start a burger eating contest!
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
You assert that I must prove that the dead were not lying? You just outed yourself as anti-science, and stupid. The burden of proof is on you, and you know it.
You are making extraordinary claims of miracles and other supernatural events. The burden of proof to support those claims is on you.

"Some guys wrote it down" is piss-poor evidence that no one in their right mind would find convincing.

Provide some real evidence.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
It is baffling that you are not aware of the the evidence that is so readily available. there is more evidence for Jesus than even Julius Caesar.
Laughably false.

We have first hand writings of Caesar, we have numerous reliable, independent, unbiased, contemporary historical accounts of Caesar, and we have physical artifacts of Caesar (coins, busts). None of these things is true of Jesus.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
That is what is baffling. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof after centuries of information being handed down generation after generation.
You are attempting to portray religious legends as historical fact.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
You don't just get to say ... "hey, wait a minute, how do I know all you people for the last 2000 years were telling the truth?"
Well, prove that they were not then.
It's a bit different when the stories in question are written by anonymous cult members and they're full of absurdities. This is the reason why you reject all similar stories from other religions.

My friend Joe can shoot lasers from his eyes. Believe me?

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#152326
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
For the US, thanks to modern policing.
Not for the world.
Thanks for being myopic.
Thanks for moving the goalposts when you don't like being refuted.

You tried to associate porn with sex crimes, but despite the US being the porn capital of the world, and access to porn increasing massively in the past 20 years (internet), yet sex crimes are down.

Your association FAILS.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#152327
Feb 7, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not.
Uh, no video games for you tonight.
Give me your cellphone.
Here's some magnets and some string. Learn something tonight.
Don't play video games, no cellphone. Do very little teevee(2 hours a week?...maybe).

You're reaching, and a little angry, Dave...hahaaa.

Since: Dec 11

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#152328
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
We are smarter than ancient peoples?
Then you must not have read much about them.
By what standards were they smarter?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
More educated? How so?
Is this a joke? How is the average modern person more educated than the average ancient human? The average modern human can READ, for one. Most go through numerous years in school. What major education systems did the ancients have?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
More free time? Maybe, but that does not make people more intelligent. That just gives them time to acquire more knowledge.
Yes, which aids skepticism.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
No, Jesus's time was amazingly complex, and you demonstrate a profoundly uneducated mind. You obviously have no idea how complex the world was then, do you?
Not nearly as complex as it is today, especially for the average person.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
No, fool, they would laugh at us, and our lazy and meaningless life as we play Black Ops and watch porn. We exploit the world. They MADE THE WORLD as we know it.
Gosh, ignorance like yours makes me angry.
Yeah, I bet your typical illiterate farmer who spends all day in the fields would be laughing at the world we have today.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#152329
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>There is a LONG list of people who used to write in those days who NEVER mentioned jesus. Why would they write about someone that wasn't there?
For example; Philo Judaeus wrote very many books about Jewish religion and history, living in Alexandria, and visiting Jerusalem. Philo visited Jerusalem and had family there, he was considered a Christian by later Christians, and he wrote a great deal about related times and peoples and issues.
If Jesus had existed, Philo would certainly have written about him and his teachings. But he never mentions jesus.
Many examples like this.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/philo.html

LOL!!!!!!!

He did.

(36) There was a certain madman named Carabbas ... this man spent all this days and nights naked in the roads, minding neither cold nor heat, the sport of idle children and wanton youths;

(37) and they, driving the poor wretch as far as the public gymnasium, and setting him up there on high that he might be seen by everybody, flattened out a leaf of papyrus and put it on his head instead of a diadem, and clothed the rest of his body with a common door mat instead of a cloak and instead of a sceptre they put in his hand a small stick of the native papyrus which they found lying by the way side and gave to him;

(38) and when, like actors in theatrical spectacles, he had received all the insignia of royal authority, and had been dressed and adorned like a king, the young men bearing sticks on their shoulders stood on each side of him instead of spear-bearers, in imitation of the bodyguards of the king, and then others came up, some as if to salute him, and others making as though they wished to plead their causes before him, and others pretending to wish to consult with him about the affairs of the state.

(39) Then from the multitude of those who were standing around there arose a wonderful shout of men calling out Maris!; and this is the name by which it is said that they call the kings among the Syrians; for they knew that Agrippa was by birth a Syrian, and also that he was possessed of a great district of Syria of which he was the sovereign;

He just didn't know his name. That came after he became a Christian, and possibly a source of doctrine. The events BEFORE the Resurrection would not have been of any note to anyone. People were being crucified for rebellion all the time. Jesus would not have stood out to those that had not heard him speak.

It was the Resurrection that got he ball rolling.

Now is lack of evidence proof of anything. The Romans and Greeks destroyed a great deal of literature. Caesar's stupidity caused the Library of Alexandria to burn down, and Alexander burned the Library of Tyre to the ground. These were not isolated incidences, the stupid Romans kept losing records and books in one war after another. An attempt was made to use Pergamon to store scrolls, only to lose many aboard ships on the way.

Who knows how much was lost as the Empire engaged in one war after another, eventually falling to barbarism, where the Jews and the Christians had to pull books out of the flames to perserve what little we have now. Had it not been for them, we'd never know of Caesar, or Homer, or anyone.

Since: Dec 11

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#152330
Feb 7, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Then prove they are legends, and that the witnesses were liars.
It should be simple, if true.
They contain absurdities and are written in a legendary manner.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Not so with Islam, sorry. Muhammad had no witnesses at all, and was illiterate.
He did have witnesses. Do you propose Islam was formed out of thin air?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
No apostles at all, and therefore, no peer-reviewed evidence.
Apostles are not peer-reviewed evidence. They are biased cult members.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
The Bible is a written account of the events themselves, and correlates with events from outside sources.
In that most of the events of the OT can't even be documented by outside sources? That no contemporary historian of the time, like Philo, bothered to mention it? That no one noticed a bunch of Saints rising from graves? I'd think zombies would be a noteworthy occurrence.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Not even the Jews deny Jesus, who above all had the motive and the opportunity to do so, since they regarded him as a sorcerer.
What's the difference? They had two possible arguments to use: "no, he didn't", or "yeah, he did, but it was sorcery". Given the superstitious era, it's no surprise they chose the latter.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Had Christians been lying, they would have been the FIRST to note that in the historical records
How would they go about noting that they were lying?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
No, neither Muhammad, nor Joseph Smith, have witnesses, or good arguments.
That's just plain false. Joseph Smith had numerous eyewitnesses who all wrote firsthand about their experiences with him. They're called "The 8 Witnesses".
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
But that has never been the problem of Christianity, which merged from nowhere, a full-blown church with it's rituals intact, as if everything they knew was taught by someone directly.
The beliefs were not all intact, there was variation among groups. It's the entire reason that Christians had to get together to form creeds and determine canon.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
But let me guess, the Bible does count for you, or the records of the Church, right? Too biased?
Sorry, that won't fly either.
Of course it flies. Documents full of absurdities should be rejected without greater evidence.

Were you to be on a jury and the defense told you that the defendant could fly, you wouldn't believe that. You wouldn't believe it even if a couple friends of his testified to it.

Since: Mar 11

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#152331
Feb 7, 2013
 
10% couldn't have built that? Sheesh belief in your god Jesus makes you stupid.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are FOS.
The Second Temple was quite an engineering feat. The Romans, who are quite famous for their engineering skills, had a helluva time dismantling it.
BTW, it was really just a big slaughterhouse and meat market.

Since: Apr 12

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#152332
Feb 7, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>Yes Dave.

We know.

You sit in your hot tub and sniff fart bubbles.

It's having an effect on you.
A sport I know nothing about. You however brought it up so you revile your full knowledge of the under water fart smelling sport. So one can conclude that you spent quite a bit of time practicing at it.

Really weird!

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

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#152333
Feb 7, 2013
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
A sport I know nothing about. You however brought it up so you revile your full knowledge of the under water fart smelling sport. So one can conclude that you spent quite a bit of time practicing at it.
Really weird!
Who said anything about "under water"?

What kind of freak are you?

Since: Oct 12

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#152334
Feb 7, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Re-asses?
Like, backsides?
Buttocks?
ROFL!!!! And i thought Eagle was losing his talent.

That's it, I've made up my mind, Eagle is not real, he's playin' a joke on us!

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