Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 256026 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152308 Feb 7, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Can I get you a fast acting energy drink before you turn back into a raccoon?
I'll do whatever you say.
Ask Mylan, he might shout at me!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152309 Feb 7, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Must be a sour orange.
For oranges, I prefer the large valencia ones, with a huge navel.
The sweeter the better, like you.
Can't be coz i peel it with hands, i'll check label next time.

Well, some fruit are sexy looking!

I'm not sweet, please don't eat me, please!!!

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152310 Feb 7, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Missing out? What is there to miss?
Why are you attracted to atheists?
We have nothing to offer ' true believers'.
We do not share common myths worshiped the world over.
I think this is your personal need to believe, to surrender your scepticism, your reason, and your willingness to discard the true origins of religions... in order to put all your trust or faith in someone or something based entirely on superstition.
I find this odd, especially in the Information Age!
I reject any 'faith' that contradicts scientific fact, that outrages reason and common sense.
;)
I feel a certain kinship to Atheist. My father was an Atheist most of his adult life. To be honest communicating and debating Atheist is a challenge.

A famous prosecutor in Texas once said,“Anyone can convict a guilty man. But you have to be damn good to convict a innocent man.”

In my view any Christian can help save a feeble, vulnerable, lost soul. But it takes a damn good believer to save an Atheist.

A fisherman can catch the little fish all day long or he can go into the deep to catch that world record. My friend I’m fishing in the deep waters for that one catch for the record. I’m fishing for that trophy fish. The one that fights all the way to the deck. That Sir makes the thrill of the catch worthwhile.

The harder they fight the more thrilling it is.[Tipping hat]

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152311 Feb 7, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it isn't, as I've already explained. That isn't supporting evidence of Christianity's claims at all.
<quoted text>
The Age of Reason and Enlightenment OPPOSED religion, superstition, and faith in favor of reason and evidence.
<quoted text>
You didn't provide any details.
- What evidence and arguments did early Christians use to convert "atheists"?
- What claims were subjected to the scientific method?
- What scientific training did any of those early Christians have?
- What parts of the Bible include the scientific method or promote scientific/skeptical thinking?
<quoted text>
Secular refers to anything not inherently religious. Reason is secular. Science is secular. Math is secular. Eating a hamburger is secular. Making a post on Topix is secular.
<quoted text>
The idea that they HAD any proof is your claim and you must support it.
It's baffling that you think this is a good argument for believing something that has no evidence to support it.
"People believed it back then. Prove them wrong!"
Historical data is the supporting evidence. Are you asserting then that the data is wrong, or that the witnesses were lying? Then you would have to provide evidence, not the dead, who cannot.

The Age of Reason and Enlightenment was no such thing. I see you dropped the Renaissance, probably realizing you were wrong.

The Church Fathers words are available on the Internet, you may read their arguments at your leisure.

Secular is a made up word that means nothing to us. Religion includes everything, including science and sociology, for religion deals with everything. Only the anti-religious assert that some things are "secular" and created a word for that. That does not make the concept a valid one. Do you have a valid argument to assert that something is "secular?" Eating a hamburger is secular? Not to us, we thank God for it.

"The idea that they HAD any proof is your claim and you must support it."

You assert that I must prove that the dead were not lying? You just outed yourself as anti-science, and stupid. The burden of proof is on you, and you know it.

It is baffling that you are not aware of the the evidence that is so readily available. there is more evidence for Jesus than even Julius Caesar. The Bible is the most well preserved document on earth, reliably copied for centuries, while most of the works of the Romans were lost.

That is what is baffling. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof after centuries of information being handed down generation after generation.

You don't just get to say ... "hey, wait a minute, how do I know all you people for the last 2000 years were telling the truth?"

Well, prove that they were not then.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152312 Feb 7, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Still a classic, hey , the evolutionists, did they get their theories from the Frankenstein movie? that all you have to do is hit dead matter with a lightning bolt to make it alive?
Kinda like that, lol.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152313 Feb 7, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Rape has been going down for 20 years.
http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/forum/17/2summe...
For the US, thanks to modern policing.

Not for the world.

Thanks for being myopic.

Now, what about all the others things? Sex trafficking and such? Why should rape go up when people are brazen enough now to just kidnap women, rape them, and kill them?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#152314 Feb 7, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing.
A shame you can't come up with anything to dispute other than attempted ridicule.
Be a good boy and go watch the TV and learn something. You couldn't figure anything out for yourself.
It's all in fun, Dave.

Don't be angry.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#152315 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
No.
Historical fact.
Ignorant much?
Yes, you really are if you believe that BS

LOL

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152316 Feb 7, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Every Catholic Church I have ever been in features a life size Christ on the cross. Always front and center. People kneel before this crucifix and pray, they are doing something they shouldn't? Maybe the Vatican should be informed of all these people kneeling and praying before Christ on the cross.
My question was not why did God let so many people die in World war 11, rather I was addressing the effect of prayer. You say God answers prayer, and seemingly on a rather consistent level. But he didn't answer any of the prayers of the millions of jews who undoubtably prayed as they had never prayed before. I'm wondering if it seems reasonable to you, that God would refuse to answer so many prayers and for so many desperate people? Its not like they were praying for a long lost spouse, or to find their car keys. These poor people were praying for their wives, their children, brother, sisters. The horrors that were inflicted on them, on their children, who they must have beseeched God for help. But he simple sat and watched as millions died in agony and despair. How can anyone who believes in God, believing what you believe about his power. A being who can create an entire universe and all things in it, could help these poor souls with a snap of his fingers, yet he did nothing. Does that seem at all reasonable to you? Please spare me the "Who can know the mind of God"......and "God works in mysterious ways" All that is, is a huge copout, it means you know there is a serious conflict inside you, so you think this will heal the wrong you must feel. You have to feel, you have to because you are a reasonable person. You use reason and logic in everything you do, why do you suspend it when it comes to the actions, or in this case the non-actions of God?
No conflict inside me my good Doctor. All humans will pass through deaths door. We were guaranteed that experience when we were born.

I know that through this very horrific war, a new nation was born. Many Jews were saved and many were lost. Yes, God allowed it to happen and God also allowed Germany to be defeated. The cruelty was done by mankind to mankind and the cruelty continues even to this day.

World History is very ugly my good Doctor. This ugliness started when Cain killed his brother Able. Men have the ability to have children or make life. And they have the ability to take life.

I’m not Catholic and I will never bow down to a graven image. I don’t agree with what they do but at the same time I want them to have the freedom to worship as they desire.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#152317 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical data is the supporting evidence. Are you asserting then that the data is wrong, or that the witnesses were lying? Then you would have to provide evidence, not the dead, who cannot.
The Age of Reason and Enlightenment was no such thing. I see you dropped the Renaissance, probably realizing you were wrong.
The Church Fathers words are available on the Internet, you may read their arguments at your leisure.
Secular is a made up word that means nothing to us. Religion includes everything, including science and sociology, for religion deals with everything. Only the anti-religious assert that some things are "secular" and created a word for that. That does not make the concept a valid one. Do you have a valid argument to assert that something is "secular?" Eating a hamburger is secular? Not to us, we thank God for it.
"The idea that they HAD any proof is your claim and you must support it."
You assert that I must prove that the dead were not lying? You just outed yourself as anti-science, and stupid. The burden of proof is on you, and you know it.
It is baffling that you are not aware of the the evidence that is so readily available. there is more evidence for Jesus than even Julius Caesar. The Bible is the most well preserved document on earth, reliably copied for centuries, while most of the works of the Romans were lost.
That is what is baffling. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof after centuries of information being handed down generation after generation.
You don't just get to say ... "hey, wait a minute, how do I know all you people for the last 2000 years were telling the truth?"
Well, prove that they were not then.
If a story in a book about a deity, or the belief a person has is proof enough of a deity being real, then all deities are real. If a story in a book about a deity, or the belief a person has in a deity isn't proof enough of a deity being real. Then none of the deities are real.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152318 Feb 7, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
We are smarter than ancient peoples. And more educated. And have infinitely greater access to knowledge. And have superior reporting. And have more free time.
~90% of the people in Palestine couldn't even read. They had no little knowledge of math and virtually no science. They knew what they needed to know to survive, like farming and maybe a trade skill.
Jesus' time was an era of superstition and credulity.
Do you think Romans praying to Ceres were doing scientific analysis on the affects of prayer at her temple to crop growth? No. They prayed, they got some crops, they thanked her.
We are smarter than ancient peoples?

Then you must not have read much about them.

We most certainly are not. We might have ore knowledge about science and technology, but that does not make us smarter, that just raises our standard of living.

More educated? How so? Or are you mistaking knowledge with intelligence again? Humans work with what they have, and no matter how little they have, their intelligence does not change.

More free time? Maybe, but that does not make people more intelligent. That just gives them time to acquire more knowledge.

No, Jesus's time was amazingly complex, and you demonstrate a profoundly uneducated mind. You obviously have no idea how complex the world was then, do you?

The temples were banking firms, you blithering fool. Ceres was an investment firm for crops. The banking empires of Delos and Rhodes ruled much of the world. They had lines of credit. They had bread-making factories run by water through aqueducts. They had hot and cold running water aboard luxury ships in Lake Nemi. That SPECIFIC age was marked by atheism, they were not superstitious in general, no one cared about religion, except the Jews. The Kingdom of Armenia was playing two empires like fiddles. Cunobelin was busy keeping Britannia free from Rome, the Romen princeps were busy trying to restore family values, abortion and exposure was the order of the day, and the Romans entered a population decline and had to make slaves into citizens to balance things out.

And Judaea was in the heart of it all, between two megalithic empires, on the trade route to the Han Dynasty (The Serica as they were known then.) Northern India was still busy trying to maintain Ashoka's empire, and suffering a cultural crisis from Bactria and Greek influence from Alexander. The Himyar were at their height of culture and trade in competition with the Nabataeans. The Garamantes had their vast farms in the Sahara where the desert had not yet buried them. The Saka were stirring, and preparing for migrations Westward, eventually pushing out other natives who would centuries later invade Europe.

You javen't got the faintest clue what was going on then, or how unbelievably complex, exciting, and intricate was life. No, fool, they would laugh at us, and our lazy and meaningless life as we play Black Ops and watch porn. We exploit the world. They MADE THE WORLD as we know it.

Gosh, ignorance like yours makes me angry.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#152319 Feb 7, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you can’t sustain that belief with knowledge then perhaps it’s time to re-asses your ideology.[Tipping Hat]
Re-asses?

Like, backsides?

Buttocks?

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#152320 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No kidding, really?
But that is not porn, that is good sex.
Porn shows women being struck across the face and ejaculations into their mouth.
Or maybe you haven't actual seen what is common place these days, eh?
It's ain't your grandma's Playboy, let me tell. It's not even Penthouse, which is very tasteful by today's standards.
No, bro, Christianity has done more for women than any other religion or institution on earth, by far. We ended contract marriages where women were slaves, and made marriage sacred.
You people are just trying to drag us by the hair to pagan times when sex was so all-important, that women were raped and abused, and children neglected, in epic proportions.
What a sick and twisted person you are.
Stick with the lesbian porn. That's what I do.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#152321 Feb 7, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, your comment tells me you lack the sophistication to counter with a intellectual response. I’m not going to call you stupid because one, it’s impolite. Two it serves absolutely no purpose. Three, who am I to judge your intellect?
People who call someone else stupid are generally relaying a feeling of inadequacy in their inner being. A inward frustration that they can’t do more because a lack of education or discipline in their life. Generally it comes down to one’s inferior self-esteem.
My advice to you would be to don’t get frustrated but dig deeper into what you believe. If you can’t sustain that belief with knowledge then perhaps it’s time to re-asses your ideology.[Tipping Hat]
Your argument was defeated the moment you claimed that all atheists shared the same belief about anything. The only commonality amongst all atheists is the lack of a belief in a god.

But, hey, nice attempt at a dodge.

As for what I believe, here's one thing - the Holocaust was a horrifying nightmare of the most inhumane sort that served no purpose and from which no good came.

Unlike you, who believes "Hey, at least they got Israel for it!"

That tells us everything we need to know about you.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#152322 Feb 7, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's all in fun, Dave.
Don't be angry.
I'm not.

Uh, no video games for you tonight.

Give me your cellphone.

Here's some magnets and some string. Learn something tonight.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#152323 Feb 7, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't be coz i peel it with hands, i'll check label next time.
Well, some fruit are sexy looking!
I'm not sweet, please don't eat me, please!!!
Yeah, figs are sexy looking.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152324 Feb 7, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gospels are legends made to lay down a religion. They're no more historical than the accounts of Muhammad talking to Allah or Joseph Smith meeting an angel or Buddha achieving Nirvana.
<quoted text>
Completely untrue. People believe ridiculous things without evidence all the time. You don't apply this standard to any other religion.
Then prove they are legends, and that the witnesses were liars.

It should be simple, if true.

Not so with Islam, sorry. Muhammad had no witnesses at all, and was illiterate. No apostles at all, and therefore, no peer-reviewed evidence. The Bible is a written account of the events themselves, and correlates with events from outside sources.

Not even the Jews deny Jesus, who above all had the motive and the opportunity to do so, since they regarded him as a sorcerer. Had Christians been lying, they would have been the FIRST to note that in the historical records, or not noted it at all, which would have been enough to suggest it never happened.

Every bit of ancient evidence shows us that something very unusually happened on the fringe of the Roman Empire, where the Empire fought against one uprising after another, leading after the Third Jewish War to its demise and withdrawal from the Indian Ocean for which it briefly reached.

No, neither Muhammad, nor Joseph Smith, have witnesses, or good arguments. But that has never been the problem of Christianity, which merged from nowhere, a full-blown church with it's rituals intact, as if everything they knew was taught by someone directly. We have heaps upon heaps of evidence.

But let me guess, the Bible does count for you, or the records of the Church, right? Too biased?

Sorry, that won't fly either. You don't get to pick and choose which evidence is valid. If you suspect bias, then show where it lies. The burden is on you, not any Christian.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#152325 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical data is the supporting evidence.
Stop being vague. What historical data?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
The Age of Reason and Enlightenment was no such thing.


Yes, they were. Science is the promotion of knowledge through reason and observation, rather than revelation.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
I see you dropped the Renaissance, probably realizing you were wrong.
You brought up the Renaissance.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Secular is a made up word that means nothing to us.
It has a clear meaning. Pretending a word doesn't have meaning doesn't make the meaning go away.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Religion includes everything, including science and sociology, for religion deals with everything.
Science and sociology are not INHERENTLY religious, at all. That's what secular means.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Only the anti-religious assert that some things are "secular" and created a word for that. That does not make the concept a valid one. Do you have a valid argument to assert that something is "secular?" Eating a hamburger is secular? Not to us, we thank God for it.
lol. YOU adding a religious connotation to something doesn't make that thing inherently religious.

Is eating a hamburger inherently competitive? Well I can start a burger eating contest!
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
You assert that I must prove that the dead were not lying? You just outed yourself as anti-science, and stupid. The burden of proof is on you, and you know it.
You are making extraordinary claims of miracles and other supernatural events. The burden of proof to support those claims is on you.

"Some guys wrote it down" is piss-poor evidence that no one in their right mind would find convincing.

Provide some real evidence.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
It is baffling that you are not aware of the the evidence that is so readily available. there is more evidence for Jesus than even Julius Caesar.
Laughably false.

We have first hand writings of Caesar, we have numerous reliable, independent, unbiased, contemporary historical accounts of Caesar, and we have physical artifacts of Caesar (coins, busts). None of these things is true of Jesus.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
That is what is baffling. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof after centuries of information being handed down generation after generation.
You are attempting to portray religious legends as historical fact.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
You don't just get to say ... "hey, wait a minute, how do I know all you people for the last 2000 years were telling the truth?"
Well, prove that they were not then.
It's a bit different when the stories in question are written by anonymous cult members and they're full of absurdities. This is the reason why you reject all similar stories from other religions.

My friend Joe can shoot lasers from his eyes. Believe me?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#152326 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
For the US, thanks to modern policing.
Not for the world.
Thanks for being myopic.
Thanks for moving the goalposts when you don't like being refuted.

You tried to associate porn with sex crimes, but despite the US being the porn capital of the world, and access to porn increasing massively in the past 20 years (internet), yet sex crimes are down.

Your association FAILS.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#152327 Feb 7, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not.
Uh, no video games for you tonight.
Give me your cellphone.
Here's some magnets and some string. Learn something tonight.
Don't play video games, no cellphone. Do very little teevee(2 hours a week?...maybe).

You're reaching, and a little angry, Dave...hahaaa.

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