Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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146,061 - 146,080 of 226,320 Comments Last updated 15 min ago

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#152031 Feb 6, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
You're entitled to your own opinions.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
I know, you are empowered to make your own. You are very creative in that.
uncle sam

Denver, CO

#152032 Feb 6, 2013
For the information of people on this forum, Langoliers is also a consistent poster on the Scabies Forum. He and his wife have been infected for well over a year. He consistently posts some very dangerous and toxic "cures" there that are very dangerous to a persons health. He does this acting like some kind of authority when he is not even cured himself.
He also created a whole thread under an alternate identity just for his own pathetic amusement. he really needs to be in a psychiatric ward.

I invite anyone to go on the Scabies forum and read the drivel he posts as a remedy and then go and find real answers as to how detrimental it is. He even highly recommends Lindane which has resulted in seizures and deaths.
Imhotep

Davenport, FL

#152033 Feb 6, 2013
Turkey wrote:
<quoted text> Our maker does no evil and there is no law against him. The entire earth and all its contents are counted as nothing to our arcane God. All you atheists need to hunble yourselves. He gives life and death with impunity. learn some respect you angnst ridden wacko.
Thank you for sharing your myth.

Myth enthusiasts will find this magical site a 'wonder to behold'.

http://www.godchecker.com/

Mythology Encyclopedia features over 3,700 weird and wonderful Supreme Beings, Demons, Spirits and Fabulous Beasts from all over the world.

Explore ancient legends and folklore, and discover Gods of everything from Fertility to Fluff!

;)

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#152034 Feb 6, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
MythBusters: Without Religion there would be no War
Posted by Justin Ferriman
Christian Commentary
I can’t count the number of times I have heard this ‘argument’ on the internet from amateur atheists. Naturally, the more seasoned of us know that this is simply not true, but it seems to be a staple in atheistland that the newcomers love to recite.
I am not naive to the fact that religion is probably the reason most used to justify conflicts, but I strongly refute the idea that a warless world is only obtainable through the elimination of religion (human nature won’t allow it). I was looking around the internet for different wars that aren’t religiously driven to back my claim and I stumbled upon someones post in a forum. I don’t know who the author is, but it sums out my viewpoints on the matter pretty thoroughly. Enjoy
Much is said, today, on the issue of religious wars. Without question, religion has been (if only superficially) the banner of countless wars throughout history. Lists are often compiled, naming various instances of religious war (as, for example, this list).
One might reasonably ask, however, whether or not there is a corresponding list of non-religious wars. After all, if religion is really good for nothing but “starting wars,” then surely its elimination would do away with, or at least considerably diminish, the perpetuation of warfare across the globe.
Jack Perry has presented one such list of non-religious wars, as follows:
1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)
2.)The American Revolution
3.)The French Revolution
4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)
5.)The Revolutions in the Americas
6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)
7.)The American Civil War
8.)The Crimean War
9.)The Spanish-American War
10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)
11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia
12.)The Spanish Civil War
13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland
14.)World War II
15.)The Chinese Revolution
16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan
17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)
18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution
19.)The Falklands War
20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq
21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq
The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).
http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbuste...
I haven't claimed that without religion there would be no wars, the only thing I have claimed so far is that there are no moral actions (that we can agree on) that are unique to ether the religious or non-religious, but there are evil actions unique to the religious. Thats it ether you misunderstand my point which makes what you attack a straw man or you are avoiding my point with red herrings and straw men, I dont know you well enough to conclude the latter so Ill run with the former.
I hope this post clarifies my point and makes your relevant.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#152035 Feb 6, 2013
mtimber wrote:
How can a chemical fizz have destiny or purpose? How can you account for that as an atheist. I can account for that for you. You were created with the opportunity to live eternally with a loving God, that adores you. That is where your sense of hope and purpose comes from.
What you mean is that you believe that your god created people to place them in a situation to determine which ones could believe something absurd without evidence so that he could harvest them to praise him for eternity. You worth depends on that. People who fail are worth even less. That's what you call a purpose or meaning.

My life has more purpose than that without a god. You live yours like your waiting for a bus that won't come until after you've slumped over on the bench. Where's the meaning or purpose in that?

Unlike you, I feel connected to my world. I find meaning there.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#152036 Feb 6, 2013
mtimber wrote:
you then create a false sense of destiny and purpose that has no basis in reality and is shallow in form, to make up for the true destiny and purpose you have the opportunity to grasp.
You took the words right out of my mouth.

You have no reasonable expectation of any destiny after death, just hope. The whole show is very likely right in front of you - here and now. If you can't find meaning in that, you've been cheated by your faith.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#152037 Feb 6, 2013
mtimber wrote:
And this is the point with atheism.
It cannot account for the transcendent laws that it uses.
It also denies the laws it uses.
Revealing the simple fact of the controversy that rages in the human heart.
That God has revealed Himself to all men, through the transcendent laws of logic, uniformity and morality.
Yet they suppress that truth, so that they are not accountable to the owner of truth.
That suppression can be clearly seen by the contradictory appeal and denial of those laws by the atheist, as they squirm to avoid the unavoidable.
They then become reduced to absurdity, in their denial of those most basic of transcendental laws, that denial being required if they are to avoid God, and thus proving the very point they seek to avoid...
Examples or go away.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#152038 Feb 6, 2013
You have a problem with porn? Bullsht you know your hard drive has thousands of traces I would wager.

I own a few free link sites, people click on videos/pics and I collect ad revenue. A win win for everyone. They actually do pretty well, not Rockefeller money but I have been pleased.

I make more from my property rentals and dividends though.:shrugs:
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
This bona fide braggart was trying to solicit donations for the cause on his own thread. You'd think he'd have enough money from his porn enterprises alone to fund the entire Filipino campaign.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#152039 Feb 6, 2013
BBSting wrote:
You athesists are a pack of hypocritical anal retentive clods. You run off at the mouth with certainty about the delusional Christian until you are faced with uncertainty, that is. Lying on your death bed knowing that your life is about to vaporize into nothingness, you will cling to even a thin sliver of hope, whether delusion or not, if it keeps you alive.
It's tough on all Americans these days as we watch the nation deteriorating at so many levels - education, elections, debt, jobs, the dollar, the banks, recession, falling world opinion, scientific competitiveness, government, the health care system, continual war, extreme weather, oil spills, infrastructure decay, failure of the media, etc.

But we have one victory: secularization.

For you Christian Americans, it's even worse. You've got to watch your religion withering away along with your country, as you sit by impotently praying for your god to save both - the same god that assume will save you.

You think that faith is a good thing, but it's not.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#152040 Feb 6, 2013
He's like a Christhole bungee jumper. He drops in here bleating his Hovind and Craig talking points, refuses to answer questions and then runs like hell.

Personally I think it may be that reject Derek who got tired if people ignoring his off topic spam and decided to change screen names and copy and paste the Hovind gang's talking points instead.
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
Examples or go away.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#152041 Feb 6, 2013
" Limitations
Further information: Biostratigraphy

Organisms are only rarely preserved as fossils in the best of circumstances, and only a fraction of such fossils have been discovered. This is illustrated by the fact that the number of species known through the fossil record is less than 5% of the number of known living species, suggesting that the number of species known through fossils must be far less than 1% of all the species that have ever lived.[17] Because of the specialized and rare circumstances required for a biological structure to fossilize, only a small percentage of life-forms can be expected to be represented in discoveries, and each discovery represents only a snapshot of the process of evolution. The transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, which will never demonstrate an exact half-way point.[18]

The fossil record is heavily slanted toward organisms with hard parts, leaving most groups of soft-bodied organisms with little to no role.[17] It is replete with the vertebrates, the echinoderms, the brachiopods and some groups of arthropods.[19]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil

Less than 1%.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#152042 Feb 6, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The universe is temporally finite, but spatially infinite.
Yes it is hard to understand, basically it means inflation has caused expansion faster than light so the boundary
(if there even is one) will forever be beyond our detection.
This is a inescapably a paradox of reasoning in itself.
It is however the scenario that fits the evidence.
It's a conflict also that there are two problems that exist in our understanding of the universe.
The first one is there is a conflict in the age of the universe.
Some stars appear to be older than the universe itself temporally by some calculations.
So there is a error in one. Paradox.
The other is the speed of the stars at edges of galaxies, they move to fast, we attempt to explain it with dark matter, it may be the answer, but is not beyond scant evidence in proving it to be the cause. Or even exactly what it is causing it.
Paradox
The uncertainty principle, and Schroeder's cat the Higgs field, all enigmas and also paradoxical. There are many, and whether you accept it or not , the start of this universe is a paradox.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.h...
We now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe.

Not a paradox, Einsteins formulas predict it, objects change in position relative to the space-time grid. The speed of light is a constraint for objects that exist within space-time, not for space-time itself.

So not paradoxical

The other is related and can be calculated by the Hubble constant at around 71MPS. The expansion of the universe predicts that objects over 4200MPS away will be moving faster than the speed of light.

Again not paradoxical

As I have shown you by offering the definition that a paradox is self contradictory statement. And therefore I will repeat, just because the beginning of the universe is not understood does not make it self contradictory, it just means its not understood (yet).

As to the uncertainty principal, Schroeder's cat, one theoretical, the other an example to explain the uncertainty principal on the quantum level. And why is the higgs field a paradox? Elusive, true, paradoxical, nope it has been predicted for years

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#152043 Feb 6, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.h...
We now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe.
Not a paradox, Einsteins formulas predict it, objects change in position relative to the space-time grid. The speed of light is a constraint for objects that exist within space-time, not for space-time itself.
So not paradoxical
The other is related and can be calculated by the Hubble constant at around 71MPS. The expansion of the universe predicts that objects over 4200MPS away will be moving faster than the speed of light.
Again not paradoxical
As I have shown you by offering the definition that a paradox is self contradictory statement. And therefore I will repeat, just because the beginning of the universe is not understood does not make it self contradictory, it just means its not understood (yet).
As to the uncertainty principal, Schroeder's cat, one theoretical, the other an example to explain the uncertainty principal on the quantum level. And why is the higgs field a paradox? Elusive, true, paradoxical, nope it has been predicted for years
Amusing, the illusion you have thinking you have a grasp on the reality of it all.

Numbers are not a substitute for a deity or other higher level of existence. They are inventions of man. You just have no idea how contrived that theoretical physics of yours is.

The number of the Beast is that of a man.

Numbers just can't quantify all that there is, so you can never really get the grasp of it all.

But you are still cute. <Smooch>

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#152044 Feb 6, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Does your sorry ass think this is a "social arena" and we're being "social"?!
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You're confusing two similar and related words:

Social - of or relating to human society, the interaction of the individual and the group, or the welfare of human beings as members of society

Sociable - marked by or conducive to friendliness or pleasant social relations
RiversideRedneck wrote:
OK, then by your definition, we're relating to human society.... But we sure as shit ain't 'being' social.
I think we are. Read the definitions again. You seem to be saying that we aren't being sociable, which is arguable. But this is definitely social behavior. Participating on a message board is a social activity.

Did you know that dogs are considered social animals? So are bees and ants. You don't need to do much more to be a society than to be several individuals interacting cooperatively, usually in support of a common purpose.

Are you getting ready to hunker down on this?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#152045 Feb 6, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I still like Jehu, son of Nimshi.
Earliest citation I know for dangerous driving.
You were the source of that addition to the list. Thanks again. Kabong!

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152046 Feb 6, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing, the illusion you have thinking you have a grasp on the reality of it all.
Numbers are not a substitute for a deity or other higher level of existence. They are inventions of man. You just have no idea how contrived that theoretical physics of yours is.
The number of the Beast is that of a man.
Numbers just can't quantify all that there is, so you can never really get the grasp of it all.
But you are still cute. <Smooch>
We may have to start referring to you as *Dave "the Jesus!" Nelson* after that number of the beast comment.

Hahaa, you even capitalized it as if it's a real thing and such.

If you start randomly capitalizing words for no apparent reason and using lots of repeated exclamation!!! and question??? marks...

I'm really gonna start worrying about you, Dave "______" Nelson.

MAGNETS AND STRINGS FOREVER AND AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152047 Feb 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's tough on all Americans these days as we watch the nation deteriorating at so many levels - education, elections, debt, jobs, the dollar, the banks, recession, falling world opinion, scientific competitiveness, government, the health care system, continual war, extreme weather, oil spills, infrastructure decay, failure of the media, etc.
But we have one victory: secularization.
For you Christian Americans, it's even worse. You've got to watch your religion withering away along with your country, as you sit by impotently praying for your god to save both - the same god that assume will save you.
You think that faith is a good thing, but it's not.
Well, look who is still on Topix with nothing better to do. I go looking around too see what is new after several months, and low and behold is the same, old, tired atheist on the prowl, with the usual disconnect to history and the facts.

Yes, it is hard on Americans, to watch secularization, now unchecked and running rampent for at least 150 years, transform all of the West into pathetic nations of girly men and poor intellects.

But, alas, this is the pattern of all civilizations. Secularization of Rome and Greece were disasters as well, leaving Jews and Christians to rebuild civilization, yet again.

Nothing to worry about. We have survived your kind before, and will survive you for many centuries to come. Atheism cannot hold back real progress and science, or the Jews and Christians that brought it.

What mystifies me is how you lie on Topix with allegedly a straight face, having once admitted that it serves the secular movement well to pretend that science did not emerge from us, but from secular thought.

Do you still promote that lie?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152048 Feb 6, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You have a problem with porn? Bullsht you know your hard drive has thousands of traces I would wager.
I own a few free link sites, people click on videos/pics and I collect ad revenue. A win win for everyone. They actually do pretty well, not Rockefeller money but I have been pleased.
I make more from my property rentals and dividends though.:shrugs:
<quoted text>
You mean, you make money from thousands of scenes of women being gangbanged, ejaculated on repeatedly, demeaned in infinite ways, with fantasis of rape, and subjugation of women as animals to men that act like animals?

Dude, if YOU don't have a problem with that, then you probably are the problem, and why rape, sex slavery, and rampant objectification of women that feminists complain about is a serious social concern.

Such a huge concern, that even State Atheist nations like Cuba, China, and the former USSR regulated the hell out of it.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152049 Feb 6, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't claimed that without religion there would be no wars, the only thing I have claimed so far is that there are no moral actions (that we can agree on) that are unique to ether the religious or non-religious, but there are evil actions unique to the religious. Thats it ether you misunderstand my point which makes what you attack a straw man or you are avoiding my point with red herrings and straw men, I dont know you well enough to conclude the latter so Ill run with the former.
I hope this post clarifies my point and makes your relevant.
Well I'm a little late coming to this discussion, but why don't you illuminate us all once again.

This was of particular concern: "the only thing I have claimed so far is that there are no moral actions (that we can agree on) that are unique to ether the religious or non-religious, but there are evil actions unique to the religious."

???

Firstly, moral actions? Are we going from the moral relative point of view, or the moral absolute point of view such as Sam Harris promotes?

And how exactly are the "religious" unique in their moral actions, after you just stated that no moral actions are unique to either the religious or non-religious? But you did use "evil" actions in place of moral, which is telling.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#152050 Feb 6, 2013
I don't believe your figures, so let's just say:
Fossils: x% vs. proof of god: 0%
Dave Nelson wrote:
" Limitations
Further information: Biostratigraphy
Organisms are only rarely preserved as fossils in the best of circumstances, and only a fraction of such fossils have been discovered. This is illustrated by the fact that the number of species known through the fossil record is less than 5% of the number of known living species, suggesting that the number of species known through fossils must be far less than 1% of all the species that have ever lived.[17] Because of the specialized and rare circumstances required for a biological structure to fossilize, only a small percentage of life-forms can be expected to be represented in discoveries, and each discovery represents only a snapshot of the process of evolution. The transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, which will never demonstrate an exact half-way point.[18]
The fossil record is heavily slanted toward organisms with hard parts, leaving most groups of soft-bodied organisms with little to no role.[17] It is replete with the vertebrates, the echinoderms, the brachiopods and some groups of arthropods.[19]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil
Less than 1%.

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