Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247782 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#152057 Feb 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You were the source of that addition to the list. Thanks again. Kabong!
Ooops, was it here that I brought him up?

Apologies for the repetition...

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152058 Feb 6, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Failure to read thy Bible in not a valid excuse.
The Bible God also incorporated his brand of morality into the laws he gave his chosen people.
In the following,
God outlines his moral law regarding the buying of slaves:
Lev 25:44-46
And as for thy bondman(slaves) and thy handmaid(slaves) whom thou shalt have -- of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen(slaves) and handmaids(slaves).
Moreover of the children of them that dwell as sojourners with you, of them may ye buy, and of their family that is with you, which they beget in your land, and they shall be your possession.
And ye shall leave them(the slaves) as an inheritance to your children after you, to inherit them(the slaves) as a possession: these may ye make your bondmen for ever; but as for your brethren, the children of Israel, ye shall not rule over one another with rigour.
One more example of God's morality on display follows:
Exo 21:20-21
And if a man strike his bondman(slave) or his handmaid with a staff, and he(the slave)die under his hand, he shall certainly be avenged.
Only, if he(the slave) continue (survive the beating and live) a day or two days, he shall not be avenged; for he(the slave) is his(the owner's) money(property).
There are many more examples of God's "moral" law which have very little to do with morality but the point has been made.
So according to this slavery is just fine as long as your personal God endorses it.
These types of pious Christian claims should always be given a swift kick right out the door of reason into the garbage can where they belong.
;)
Because slavery is a moral issue.

That does not follow that the Bible does not have morality. You started by saying there are NO morals in the Bible.

Now you are trying to change the subject. Do you now admit that you are wrong, and that the Bible does contain morality? Whether you believe such morals or wrong a right is an entirely different matter.

And, the science does not support you, since once again, Western Civilization was the first, EVER to outlaw slavery, and call it moral sin to own slaves.

No, that is not in the Bible. But not all Christians subscribe to Luther's Sola Scriptora, for which you argument would have to be based. The Church also as ORAL tradition equally as important as WRITTEN tradition, which condemn slavery outright.

Now how did that come to pass? Could it be that REGULATING how slaves was treated put into the minds of others the dangers of slavery entirely, which lead inevitably to its condemnation as a whole? History proves that this is a resounding yes ... minus Luther's Reformation which allowed slavery to creep back into the West temporarily.

You argument still fails, and Christianity is proven to be morally superior to all other moral systems, on HISTORICAL data alone.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152059 Feb 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
But not air guitar. You'd be a chick magnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =3CoIgQ4ZeKcXX
70+ years old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch...
On a homemade cigar box 4 string "geetar", too boot.

Another song, just for range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152060 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't steal, don't kill, don't commit adultery ....
Um, is that not morality?
Jainism?
Well, the command from Jesus was to love God and your neighbor with all of your heart. Even if you excluded God, loving thy neighbor would still equal the following:
Right faith.
Right knowledge.
Right action.
No, my friend, you are quite mistaken.
Christian morals are not unique to Christianity, as you demonstrate with Jainism. No civilization on earth has ever arisen without exactly the kind of morals both Jainism, and Christianity, indeed promote.
Why? Because morals evolved with out species to make us the refined organisms that we are. Moral behavior goes hand in hand with human natural selection. We are at our best when we are moral with one another.
C.S. Lewis already pointed this out, in his attempt to clarify Christianity to the non-Christian. I think you are in dire need of his work, Mere Christianity, as you clearly do not understand this religion.
What is unique about Christianity, is that it remain the only religion where God Himself came doen to live amongst humans, where God Himself reached down to mankind to help him evolve even further to a higher state.
No other religion comes even close. So I reject your argument (clear Jainism is not superior) and counter with Christianity being the most superior religion on earth, AND, will include scientific data to prove it. The whole of Western Civilization amazing scientific achievements for the last 1600 years, tangible evidence of Christianity (with quite a bit of help from the Jews, I might add.)
Now, what civilizations has Jainism spawned? And if one exists (Asia somewhere?), how has that civilization proven superior to Western Europe?
"only religion where God Himself came doen to live amongst humans"

You should get knowledge on other religions before you make stuff up! The Indian religions also say God has come down to live on earth, it's your word against ours!

I don't agree with this 'Jainism person' though, even the Bible teaches good. Jainism is a philosophy that i personally don't agree with, even too much sugar can be poisonous!!

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152061 Feb 6, 2013
Correction: *to boot

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#152062 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
And, the science does not support you, since once again, Western Civilization was the first, EVER to outlaw slavery, and call it moral sin to own slaves.
Buddhism explicitly denounced slavery long before that.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Could it be that REGULATING how slaves was treated put into the minds of others the dangers of slavery entirely, which lead inevitably to its condemnation as a whole? History proves that this is a resounding yes
That's totally absurd. The ancient Israelites knew the horrors of slavery because they WERE SLAVES (by their own mythology).

How ridiculously ineffective is the Bible god if he thinks slavery is wrong, but tells people to practice it anyway in the hopes that they may figure out it's not so good in a COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS?

Your attempt to credit Christianity with everything related to Western Civilization is ridiculous.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152063 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Because slavery is a moral issue.
That does not follow that the Bible does not have morality. You started by saying there are NO morals in the Bible.
Now you are trying to change the subject. Do you now admit that you are wrong, and that the Bible does contain morality? Whether you believe such morals or wrong a right is an entirely different matter.
And, the science does not support you, since once again, Western Civilization was the first, EVER to outlaw slavery, and call it moral sin to own slaves.
No, that is not in the Bible. But not all Christians subscribe to Luther's Sola Scriptora, for which you argument would have to be based. The Church also as ORAL tradition equally as important as WRITTEN tradition, which condemn slavery outright.
Now how did that come to pass? Could it be that REGULATING how slaves was treated put into the minds of others the dangers of slavery entirely, which lead inevitably to its condemnation as a whole? History proves that this is a resounding yes ... minus Luther's Reformation which allowed slavery to creep back into the West temporarily.
You argument still fails, and Christianity is proven to be morally superior to all other moral systems, on HISTORICAL data alone.
"Western Civilization was the first, EVER to outlaw slavery, and call it moral sin to own slaves."

Don't lie!

The west has a habit of committing evil acts and then making those acts illegal.

I have said this before that morals do not change, slavery was known to be wrong in India thousands of years ago, they knew and know the caste system was wrong, but people still keep doing it, it is not the fault of the religion.

Women in the west were not allowed to vote before the 20th century, when Sikhism had allowed women to join any occupation they wanted.

You people in the west need to understand that u r the last race to be 'civilized', the west has destroyed so many countries to get to where it is now!! It is not something to be proud of!!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152064 Feb 6, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Buddhism explicitly denounced slavery long before that.
<quoted text>
That's totally absurd. The ancient Israelites knew the horrors of slavery because they WERE SLAVES (by their own mythology).
How ridiculously ineffective is the Bible god if he thinks slavery is wrong, but tells people to practice it anyway in the hopes that they may figure out it's not so good in a COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS?
Your attempt to credit Christianity with everything related to Western Civilization is ridiculous.
EXACTLY!!!

Moses was fighting the Egyptians and telling them to let his people go, but oh no, nobody knew slavery was bad in the olden days! lol!

People don't know what they're talking about! Either they never read a history book or if they have, they just wanna live in their own little box!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152065 Feb 6, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
"only religion where God Himself came doen to live amongst humans"
You should get knowledge on other religions before you make stuff up! The Indian religions also say God has come down to live on earth, it's your word against ours!
I don't agree with this 'Jainism person' though, even the Bible teaches good. Jainism is a philosophy that i personally don't agree with, even too much sugar can be poisonous!!
Incorrect. The notion of "god" in India is not the same as "God" in our language. We are not speaking of the same kind of deity, at all.

A correct translation of the Vedic texts would replace the deities with the word "angel" or messengers, or those with advanced powers over the universe, but not the singular source of the universe.

I don't make stuff up. This is basic Christian theology, which is a study onto itself. If you want a better explanation, I always recommend Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

No, it is not my word. It is the word of many people in the past. Now, if you wish to prove they are all liars, be my guest. But you will find that no one in 2000 years has been able to refute the historical facts of the time period, nor explain why Christianity emerged at all that explains a total shift in human thinking. It is then your word against all of history, not my word against anyone today. I make no claims. They have been made already, and sustained, and remain true until a solid refutation of the historical data is brought forth.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152066 Feb 6, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Buddhism explicitly denounced slavery long before that.
<quoted text>
That's totally absurd. The ancient Israelites knew the horrors of slavery because they WERE SLAVES (by their own mythology).
How ridiculously ineffective is the Bible god if he thinks slavery is wrong, but tells people to practice it anyway in the hopes that they may figure out it's not so good in a COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS?
Your attempt to credit Christianity with everything related to Western Civilization is ridiculous.
Well that is good. Now show me where Buddhism does this.

And show me where it has been practiced. Did the Han Dynasty condemn slavery? Did any other civilization condemn it? I am open to new information, please present it.

I do not credit it. Academia does, with such professors like Carroll Quigley who was a tutor for President Bill Clinton. So, merely saying something is ridiculous has no weight against higher education.

Or, perhaps you confuse "Western Civilization" with Western European Civilization. I am strictly excluding the Romans and Greeks, who, being west of Asia, are assumed to be part of "Western Civilization."

You do realize there is more than one definition for the term, right? I will try to include "European" next time, thank you.

Anyway, the data is there for all to see. Christianity rises, the Greco-Roman world falls, a new civilization is born, and it is more advanced than any known to mankind.

Who then, is responsible?

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152067 Feb 6, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer prayers? LOL
Seriously, do you really believe in prayer?
Why didn't God hear the Jews in death camps?
Earache or anti Semite?
If you pray for rain eventually it will rain.
It will rain eventually without a prayer also.
Why put prayer to the ultimate test aka Christian Scientists... Refuse medical treatment for prayer!
God will answer that transplant prayer right away!
How strong is your faith on prayer?
http://suite101.com/article/christian-scienti...
I’m positive that prayer works. I can’t share the testimonies with you because you would think that I was making it all up so I will spare you from hearing them. Yes, I’m certain prayer works.

God doesn’t answer every prayer as I would like but there are reasons why. You mentioned the Jews in the death camps. The atrocities against the Jews resulted in a new nation being born. That nation is Israel, created in 1948.

If it weren’t for the Holocaust there would be no Israel today. It took something so horrible to bring the majority of the world together to fulfill bible prophecy. Isaiah 11:12

I believe in medical care and modern medicine. Jesus never criticized medicine or Doctors. There comes a time when medicine can do no more. Then it’s time to take up a prayer before the King of Kings.

Prayer can not only be used for healing but for well being such as jobs and blessings. Your missing out my friend but that’s your choice.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152069 Feb 6, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
No shit? So the next time I have a full arrest come through my ER I can call you and let you pray for the patient to start breathing with a heartbeat and it will happen?
I believe in medical care and modern medicine. Jesus never criticized medicine or Doctors. There comes a time when medicine can do no more. I believe it is God’s will for us to use modern medicine. Did you know there was a Medical Doctor who was one of the early disciples? His name was Doctor Luke, MD.

If it was one of my loved ones in the Emergency Room dying. You can bet I’ll be pleading to God for a miracle. More especially if it is a child. I can tell you with a sincere heart. Children are worth praying for.

In cases where the elderly that have lived a full life. I have prayed that death come swiftly and take the love one on to the next camp ground. For death is a guarantee for all of us.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152070 Feb 6, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Unlike you intolerant bigots I was there to help people who were suffering in a time of need regardless of their beliefs. Are you really so stupid to think I would have withheld or even asked what their beliefs were before giving them food or supplies? Are you seriously that ignorant Daffy?
Seriously?
<quoted text>
Sure you were, prove it.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152071 Feb 6, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
On my Facebook page.
<quoted text>
Show us, let's see proof. I want to know what a religious bigot looks like.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152072 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect. The notion of "god" in India is not the same as "God" in our language. We are not speaking of the same kind of deity, at all.
A correct translation of the Vedic texts would replace the deities with the word "angel" or messengers, or those with advanced powers over the universe, but not the singular source of the universe.
I don't make stuff up. This is basic Christian theology, which is a study onto itself. If you want a better explanation, I always recommend Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.
No, it is not my word. It is the word of many people in the past. Now, if you wish to prove they are all liars, be my guest. But you will find that no one in 2000 years has been able to refute the historical facts of the time period, nor explain why Christianity emerged at all that explains a total shift in human thinking. It is then your word against all of history, not my word against anyone today. I make no claims. They have been made already, and sustained, and remain true until a solid refutation of the historical data is brought forth.
STOP MAKING STUFF UP!!! PLEASE!!!!!!

Every intelligent Hindu knows that the Vedas only believe there is 1 eternal God!! Please stop looking at thick hindu's who go around believing there are millions of ETERNAL Gods, this it totally against our scared scriptures!!!!!!

If u do not have enough knowledge about my religion please ask!

We believe in 1 eternal God, this is what the vedas teach, the devi/devta are goddesses/gods but they are not God!!

I said before that the hindus have forgotten their religion and they should be ashamed of themselves for believing God is a stone and still calling themselves brahmins!

What shift in human thinking??? what's been proven? The earth is not flat? Yes, it has been proven! lol

I don't care, u keep your religion and i'll keep mine!

You're the one who has a problem with our religions, we don't even care, it's when christians/muslims start on us, that's when we fight back to defend ourselves.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#152073 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m positive that prayer works. I can’t share the testimonies with you because you would think that I was making it all up so I will spare you from hearing them. Yes, I’m certain prayer works.
God doesn’t answer every prayer as I would like but there are reasons why. You mentioned the Jews in the death camps. The atrocities against the Jews resulted in a new nation being born. That nation is Israel, created in 1948.
If it weren’t for the Holocaust there would be no Israel today. It took something so horrible to bring the majority of the world together to fulfill bible prophecy. Isaiah 11:12
I believe in medical care and modern medicine. Jesus never criticized medicine or Doctors. There comes a time when medicine can do no more. Then it’s time to take up a prayer before the King of Kings.
Prayer can not only be used for healing but for well being such as jobs and blessings. Your missing out my friend but that’s your choice.
So your god apparently loves the idea of human sacrifice, yes? He could see no other way for Israel to become a nation without the sacrifice of millions of men women and totally innocent children? This all powerful God of your who loves us dearly, a God that has no limits to what he can do, chose to sit idly by and watch millions of his prized creation perish in most horrible ways. REALLY??? I guess he just loves human sacrifice, what other possible reason could there be for him NOT find an alternative to the suffering, torture and death of millions of Jews.

Answered prayer eh......must we do the whole millions of amputees who's prayers were NEVER EVER answered?

Just a story, but kind of telling.......A man went everyday to pray for his sick wife. He went to a massive statue of Christ on the cross to pray. Everyday for a year he prayed, but his poor wife died anyway. After her death he asked the parish priest if he could clean the statue as it was neglected over the years. he was given permission and on his first day of cleaning the statue, it toppled over on him crushing him to death. He apparently lived for a few hours in horrible agony before he died. Yeah, I know....."Who ca know the mind of God"........God works in mysterious ways" Standard replies when all reason and logic fail.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152074 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Or, perhaps you confuse "Western Civilization" with Western European Civilization. I am strictly excluding the Romans and Greeks, who, being west of Asia, are assumed to be part of "Western Civilization."
You do realize that the Greeks and Romans were European, right? Both civilizations included parts that were in Asia Minor, but Greece and Rome are definitely European.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#152075 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m positive that prayer works.

God doesn’t answer every prayer as I would like but there are reasons why. You mentioned the Jews in the death camps. The atrocities against the Jews resulted in a new nation being born. That nation is Israel, created in 1948.
If it weren’t for the Holocaust there would be no Israel today.
Repulsive, Eagle.

Even worse than that.

You should start praying for forgiveness.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#152076 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
God doesn’t answer every prayer as I would like but there are reasons why. You mentioned the Jews in the death camps. The atrocities against the Jews resulted in a new nation being born. That nation is Israel, created in 1948.
If it weren’t for the Holocaust there would be no Israel today. It took something so horrible to bring the majority of the world together to fulfill bible prophecy. Isaiah 11:12
You are a complete fcking monster.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152077 Feb 6, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
STOP MAKING STUFF UP!!! PLEASE!!!!!!
Every intelligent Hindu knows that the Vedas only believe there is 1 eternal God!! Please stop looking at thick hindu's who go around believing there are millions of ETERNAL Gods, this it totally against our scared scriptures!!!!!!
If u do not have enough knowledge about my religion please ask!
We believe in 1 eternal God, this is what the vedas teach, the devi/devta are goddesses/gods but they are not God!!
I said before that the hindus have forgotten their religion and they should be ashamed of themselves for believing God is a stone and still calling themselves brahmins!
What shift in human thinking??? what's been proven? The earth is not flat? Yes, it has been proven! lol
I don't care, u keep your religion and i'll keep mine!
You're the one who has a problem with our religions, we don't even care, it's when christians/muslims start on us, that's when we fight back to defend ourselves.
Mm,

Maybe you are right. If true, then our religions have more in common. Though not surprising, the Celtic religion also seems to have pointed to one God, and not a multitude. Then again, that is why I mentioned angels, for which is a better word for all these various gods, is it not?

So, if most Hindus lack knowledge of their own religion, that puts you in the same category as most Christians, who also do not understand their own religion.

Where does that leave us?

But you show just as much ignorance of my culture and my religion as I do yours. Medieval Europeans never thought the world was flat, and there are countless other myths told about the West that are simply false.

I learned something recently about Hinduism as well, that it did not actual have a caste system as it is accused by the West, and that the Greco-Roman world was more caste-like than ever your own culture endured.

So, you see? Myths on both sides. You have my apologies.

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