Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Dec 11

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#151740
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
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Certain transcendental laws are known by man and used by man.
Some examples, please.
mtimber wrote:
So the sinner, who wants to be selfish and live in sin, denies those laws when confronted with their implications.
The objection involves ethics that are completely unrelated to the person in question. Many men don't find abortion to be immoral even though an abortion is not an action they will ever commit. Their position cannot possibly be based on selfishness or their own 'sins'. Many heterosexuals do not find homosexuality to be immoral even though they will never engage in homosexuality. They are never confronted by these implications in any way.

You have still not provided us with the mechanism by which sin infects people or any mechanism by which we can detect it.

You have not been able to explain why morality is so different among cultures. Are non-Christian people simply inherently BAD? All those Hindus who go pray at their temple KNOW they are doing something evil but choose to do so anyway?

Your stance is absurd and unevidenced.

Additionally, your disingenuous "argument" can be used by ANY OTHER opposing moral system.

True morality is eating nothing but corn. If you eat anything else, you are sinning. And you know you're sinning. If you disagree that eating other things is a sin, that's just the sin talking.

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#151741
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
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Until you can account for your own position on morality, you have no basis to discuss the issue.
What is your position?
I don't need to give any position on morality to show that yours is flawed.

Stop trying to change the subject. Your moral system is self-contradictory. Deal with it.

Since: Dec 11

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#151742
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have provided the basis for absolute morality as a Christian.
Yet you have failed to do so.
Why is that?
Why don't you have the courage to put your own worldview on trial?
You continue to refuse to address the contradiction.

Since: Jan 13

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#151743
Feb 4, 2013
 
The_Box wrote:
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In the sense that the law is a description of reality, yes. The reality is not a human invention; the description is.
So the law of non-contradiction is not a human invention after all...

How do you account for its existence?

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#151744
Feb 4, 2013
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
are you related to Retarded Redneck?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
How does that help you account for absolute laws of morality?

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#151745
Feb 4, 2013
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
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SIN is Self Induced Nonsense,,grow up kid
There is no such thing as sin?

Really?

Since: Dec 11

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#151746
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
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Not at all.
God is the First Cause.
All of science must therefore logically be subject to Him.
God first.
Science second.
Logical.
That's not logical at all. Science must practice methodological naturalism or it is useless.
mtimber wrote:
Now about this absolute morality you cannot account for, and seem reluctant to try to account for?
Where did I try to account for it?

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#151747
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Some examples, please.
<quoted text>
The objection involves ethics that are completely unrelated to the person in question. Many men don't find abortion to be immoral even though an abortion is not an action they will ever commit. Their position cannot possibly be based on selfishness or their own 'sins'. Many heterosexuals do not find homosexuality to be immoral even though they will never engage in homosexuality. They are never confronted by these implications in any way.
You have still not provided us with the mechanism by which sin infects people or any mechanism by which we can detect it.
You have not been able to explain why morality is so different among cultures. Are non-Christian people simply inherently BAD? All those Hindus who go pray at their temple KNOW they are doing something evil but choose to do so anyway?
Your stance is absurd and unevidenced.
Additionally, your disingenuous "argument" can be used by ANY OTHER opposing moral system.
True morality is eating nothing but corn. If you eat anything else, you are sinning. And you know you're sinning. If you disagree that eating other things is a sin, that's just the sin talking.
I am still not sure, why you would be even capable of talking about absolute moral positions like "sin".

The Bible clearly teaches that sin is inherited.

As to your point about a man condoning sin, not being a sinner, you might want to address that.

Men condoning sin are guilty of the sin they condone.

A man cheering on the murder of another man by a third party is just as guilty.

But if you had the courage of your convictions, you would first have the courage to show the basis for your absolute moral claims.

Why are you hiding that?

Obvious really.

It is just another technique to suppress the truth.

You will not discuss it, because you know where it goes.

It is this suppression of truth, that proves my point.

You cannot and will not account for your use of absolute morality.

Therefore, you have no right or basis to condemn anyone elses position.

Put up or shut up as they say...

:-)

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#151748
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So the law of non-contradiction is not a human invention after all...
How do you account for its existence?
It simply, is.

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#151749
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
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I don't need to give any position on morality to show that yours is flawed.
Stop trying to change the subject. Your moral system is self-contradictory. Deal with it.
Yes you do.

To state any moral position is flawed requires you to substantiate your standard of judgement.

To refuse to do so is to admit the inability to do so.

I can critique your morality because I can account for absolute morality.

You cannot, so should not critique anothers position.

Until you can justify your own position, all you are doing is behaving in an arbitrary manner.

And we both know that is illogical.

By refusing to account for your own standard of absolute morality, you prove you cannot.

Put up or shut up...

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#151750
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
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It simply, is.
I understand you have assumed it.

But you have not accounted for it.

You are simply making arbitrary appeals to "all knowledge".

Which of course is illogical...

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#151751
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not logical at all. Science must practice methodological naturalism or it is useless.
<quoted text>
Where did I try to account for it?
You didn't account for it, that is my point.

You keep assuming it...

Since: Apr 09

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#151752
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Sin is the virus.
The proof of that is that atheists sin...
Ever considered that?
You want to blame religion of sin, yet you sin and deny all religion.
How do you explain that inconsistency in your argument?
According to every religious person who has ever lived, EVERY human sins, religious or not.

How do you explain that inconsistency in your argument?

Since: Apr 09

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#151753
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As an atheist, how can you account for sanity?
After all, two chemical accidents fizzing differently are just two different chemical accidents fizzing differently.
How then does your fizz decide my fizz is not fizzing right?
Because your fizz has clearly fizzled.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#151754
Feb 4, 2013
 
First you just show a god exists before you can assign properties an assumptions to him. Your god encourages rape, incest, slavery, genocide, putting every infant to the sword and torturing people forever for imaginary crimes.

This is your standard of morality? Sorry but secular morality is by far superior.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
God exists, all the worldviews that try to suppress that truth, are quickly reduced to logical absurdity.
Again, you refuse to account for the absolute standards of morality you appeal to...

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#151755
Feb 4, 2013
 
According to your god, yes.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery and rape is okay as long as it benefits the majority of the society that approves it?

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#151756
Feb 4, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism under the ideology of communism is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths.
zzzzzzzzz

Still trying to sell the lame idea that Communists killed in the name of atheism? So sad....

Since: Mar 11

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#151757
Feb 4, 2013
 
I see you licked your wounds and returned only to ignore and dodge questions and puke out Eric Hovind and William Lane Craig lines.

An original thought from you would be nice drone.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you care?
You are an atheist, slavery and rape are perfectly acceptable in your worldview, as long as society comes to a consensus on the matter.
So I am not sure, why you would want to critique something you actually do not have a problem with as an atheist.
Of course you can reject atheism if you want, and turn to God, who is calling for your very soul, and then discuss with Him the issues you believe need to be dealt with in scripture.
But if you continue in atheism, you have no basis upon which to profess moral outrage on these issues...

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#151758
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all.
God is the First Cause.
All of science must therefore logically be subject to Him.
God first.
Science second.
How's life in the Dark Ages treating you?

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#151759
Feb 4, 2013
 

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And this is the point with atheism.

It cannot account for the transcendent laws that it uses.

It also denies the laws it uses.

Revealing the simple fact of the controversy that rages in the human heart.

That God has revealed Himself to all men, through the transcendent laws of logic, uniformity and morality.

Yet they suppress that truth, so that they are not accountable to the owner of truth.

That suppression can be clearly seen by the contradictory appeal and denial of those laws by the atheist, as they squirm to avoid the unavoidable.

They then become reduced to absurdity, in their denial of those most basic of transcendental laws, that denial being required if they are to avoid God, and thus proving the very point they seek to avoid...

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