Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Dec 11

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#151657
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.
Rational ideas based on mountains of evidence? Idiotic!

Man made out of dust and woman made out of a rib? Genius!
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#151658
Feb 4, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
At the end of the day human beings are still just liddle kiddles with a pocketful of the things they found in this life. Emergent consciousnesses.
Makes for some very complicated interactions, sharing what they found, and the fascination they have with them.
I just wish these Topix atheists weren't so fond of piles of shit.
I also wish certain theists weren't so fond of piles of dirt, that somehow magically turned into a fully formed male.

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#151659
Feb 4, 2013
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I can admit that although I don't believe that to be true, it is possible that if there is a god... he could have given me this without my knowledge.
<quoted text>
I understand in a sense. We could say that killing is wrong, period! That seems absolute. To myself that does seem absolute... pretty clear and solid. God has this in his top 10 list.
I see a few possible problems... Are we obeying god? Or is it like you mentioned, instinctive?
Is it really this simple? What about in a hostage situation? I would imagine that if we are obeying god, there is no question here. Try hard to negotiate then clean up all of the bodies.
I admit I have purposely tried to leave morality alone because of how sticky the subject is but I was bothered when you tried telling me what I believe and called me a liar..... Congrats you got me to join the morality conversation! Lol.
<quoted text>
All I can give you here is the possibility that although I do not believe in god, if he exists he could have given me moral instincts and either Satan or my limited intelligence has blocked the source.
I guarantee, however, that I am following a set of rules in a book i believe in.... and conveniently lie and pretend that i don't believe for the purpose of breaking those rules when i want to. This is as I mentioned before, nonsensical. If i believed... I would know that i would not be able to fool god.
I would hope you don't think we are all that stupid. ;-)
It is quite simple.

The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.

There are transcendent laws that govern every aspect of our being.

Laws of logic, morality and laws of uniformity.

Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).

And those laws are in you and around you.

As an atheist, you have no basis to account for them, yet you must appeal to them to argue your own worldview.

But what happens is the conclusion of those laws and the place they take a person, is something that our sinful nature wants to suppress.

So on the one hand atheists operate on these laws (when sin does not obscure them) and appeal to these laws, but on the other try to deny them because of the conclusion they lead the atheist to...

The evidence is internal and external and that is why every man can and will be judged by God.

We all know...

But some suppress that truth, because they do not like the claim God makes on them.

Since: Jan 13

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#151660
Feb 4, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
No.
As usual you are wrong.
First you must demonstrate there is a god.
Then you demonstrate he is a moral god.
Then you must demonstrate he gave said morals to us.
You can't even accomplish step one and you refuse to speak about your god's morality when it is brought up thus you must not even believe it yourself.
<quoted text>
God exists, all the worldviews that try to suppress that truth, are quickly reduced to logical absurdity.

Again, you refuse to account for the absolute standards of morality you appeal to...

Since: Jan 13

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#151661
Feb 4, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well we can't assign morality to something we can't demonstrate so logically god is out.
And again this has been covered. Humans are a social tribal creature we long to be part of a tribe so to speak. As social creatures certain social expectations need to be met or the tribe so to speak will remove or ignore you. We can see this in hundreds of animal species who are social. Ravens take one mate for life for example and stay with them. Primates demonstrate social behaviors and even punishment for breaking those. Dolphins and elephants are known to mourn their dead especially if a young one dies.
Behaving in a socially acceptable way is nothing new and is not only seen in the human community.
So assigning this well established evolved process seen in several different species to some invisible sky wizard is foolish and a logical fallacy. We have evolved this way for survival.
<quoted text>
So slavery and rape is okay as long as it benefits the majority of the society that approves it?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#151662
Feb 4, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>So secular atheism is not aggressive, doesn't try to indoctrinate belief systems in schools and get those beliefs legislated by congress.

Such beliefs as:

Evolution
Abiogenesis
Naturalism
Homosexuality
Child Sacrifice.

But putting that obvious discrepancy aside.

Why are you so concerned with sharing the idea that you hold an absolute moral position (secularism being superior), when you do not believe in absolute moral positions?
Yeah.

I just heard they passed the evolution law.

Sorry.
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#151663
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, people believe that rocks turned into men, so you may have a point there...
I thought it was DIRT that you morons believe man was made of !

www.evilbible.com

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#151664
Feb 4, 2013
 
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
Theists are liars and thieves
And if it were true, which it patently is not...

...Why would you as an atheist feel the need to make an absolute moral judgement invoking absolute moral standards and absolute authority in your statement?

How do you account for your absolutism?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#151665
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is quite simple.
The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.
There are transcendent laws that govern every aspect of our being.
Laws of logic, morality and laws of uniformity.
Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).
And those laws are in you and around you.
As an atheist, you have no basis to account for them, yet you must appeal to them to argue your own worldview.
But what happens is the conclusion of those laws and the place they take a person, is something that our sinful nature wants to suppress.
So on the one hand atheists operate on these laws (when sin does not obscure them) and appeal to these laws, but on the other try to deny them because of the conclusion they lead the atheist to...
The evidence is internal and external and that is why every man can and will be judged by God.
We all know...
But some suppress that truth, because they do not like the claim God makes on them.
prove god exists first

Can you do that?

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#151666
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is quite simple.
The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.
You're mixing the terms absolute morality and universal/objective morality.

You've yet to explain why different people appeal to different moral systems, if there is one universal moral system.
mtimber wrote:
Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).
They're not transcendent; they're quite clearly based around culture, reason, and emotion (or something other things).

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#151667
Feb 4, 2013
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Rational ideas based on mountains of evidence? Idiotic!
Man made out of dust and woman made out of a rib? Genius!
Can you account for the laws of logic that underpin logic from an atheistic perspective?

If not, then you need to start there, before appealing to sole ownership of it.

Otherwise you could be regarded as a thief, who has stole something that does not belong to him...

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#151668
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery and rape is okay as long as it benefits the majority of the society that approves it?
Slavery and rape are both condoned by the Bible, so how do you feel about them?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#151669
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
You are an atheist, you cannot account for "truth".
So "proof" is meaningless in an atheistic worldview, it is not expected or required.
straw man FALLACY

try to do better

http://nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

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#151670
Feb 4, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.
I just heard they passed the evolution law.
Sorry.
That happened a long time ago, didn't you hear?

The truth about Creation being banned and replaced with the fairy tale of evolutionary mysticism?

As can be evidenced in all the school books that are presented to teach our children that they have no purpose in life other than to indulge their lusts for a short period of time before they become a smear on the windscreen of the universe...

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#151671
Feb 4, 2013
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought it was DIRT that you morons believe man was made of !
www.evilbible.com
The material was indeed the earth.

But it didn't just decide to become intelligent one day, as taught in evolutionary fables.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#151672
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The Sabbath is a celebration of God as Creator.
Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.
A POSITIVE claim that needs to be supported with verifiable evidence.....ready...set....GO !!

An Idiotic idea that is supported by 99% of the worlds scientists. An idiotic idea that is factual as far as mainstream science is concerned. An idiotic idea that is in Fact, FACTUAL. An idiotic idea that had in 2009 135,000 articles published in reputable scientific journals and periodicals in full support of the FACTS of evolution, and nowhere in sight was there ANY articles published to refute any of there facts, why is that?

Filling children's mind's with scientifically accurate and supportive information is hardly viewed a polluting, except by those so blinded and brainwashed by their religion that these facts are simply ignored. Willful ignorance is a terrible trait.

Filling the child's mind with fear and visions of torture would be more on the lines of polluting. To fill there heads with the false knowledge that a celestial dictator has the ability to peer into their most private thoughts and convict them of thought crimes, is polluting. To tell them they are sinners and condemned to eternal torture unless they spend their lives trying to become well after being born sick, is child abuse plain and simple. Anyone that supports filling the innocent mind with visions of terror and torture deserves that same fate as any other child abuser. Shame on you or anyone else subjecting an innocent child to these unfounded horrors. Horror is the name of religion is still HORROR!!!!!!!!!!

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#151673
Feb 4, 2013
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
prove god exists first
Can you do that?
I don't need to, you already know He exists...

The fact you appeal to absolutes proves you have this information deep inside you, but that you are suppressing it because you have to be inconsistent and deny those absolutes.

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#151674
Feb 4, 2013
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
You're mixing the terms absolute morality and universal/objective morality.
You've yet to explain why different people appeal to different moral systems, if there is one universal moral system.
<quoted text>
They're not transcendent; they're quite clearly based around culture, reason, and emotion (or something other things).
If what you say is true, then slavery is only evil when society forbids it.

But if it condones it, it is not evil.

You understand the argument you are making don't you?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#151675
Feb 4, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you absolutely sure that you want to make an absolute knowledge claim like this?
Upon what basis do you claim omniscience for yourself?
god is logicaly contradictory to be real

no omniscience needed

www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

spread the word

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#151676
Feb 4, 2013
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Slavery and rape are both condoned by the Bible, so how do you feel about them?
Why would you care?

You are an atheist, slavery and rape are perfectly acceptable in your worldview, as long as society comes to a consensus on the matter.

So I am not sure, why you would want to critique something you actually do not have a problem with as an atheist.

Of course you can reject atheism if you want, and turn to God, who is calling for your very soul, and then discuss with Him the issues you believe need to be dealt with in scripture.

But if you continue in atheism, you have no basis upon which to profess moral outrage on these issues...

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