Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151650 Feb 4, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop sidestepping the question and explain a blind retarded girl with deformed limbs. How is a world full of unjust suffering compatible with the idea of a moral creator god? Did god screw up or does he not care about unjust suffering?
You are an atheist, how can you appeal to absolute morals like you have done here?

What is "unjust" suffering in an atheistic worldview, if there is not absolute standard of morality and therefore no judgement?

You are appealing to something outside of atheism as the basis for your beliefs here, do you understand that?

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#151651 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
You are an atheist, you cannot account for "truth".
So "proof" is meaningless in an atheistic worldview, it is not expected or required.
Theists are liars and thieves

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151652 Feb 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the Christians are the ones we have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. They are the ones attempting to get their beliefs taught in schools, legislated by Congress, and supported by the government. If Islam was doing the same things here, we would 'display tension' about them in the same way. Both are dangerous, but in different ways. Today Islam is the more violent, although that has not always been the case.
So secular atheism is not aggressive, doesn't try to indoctrinate belief systems in schools and get those beliefs legislated by congress.

Such beliefs as:

Evolution
Abiogenesis
Naturalism
Homosexuality
Child Sacrifice.

But putting that obvious discrepancy aside.

Why are you so concerned with sharing the idea that you hold an absolute moral position (secularism being superior), when you do not believe in absolute moral positions?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151653 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"God" doesn't exist. Neither so absolute morals.
Are you absolutely sure that you want to make an absolute knowledge claim like this?

Upon what basis do you claim omniscience for yourself?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151654 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Put on your skeptics cap and see if you can answer this from an unbeliever's perspective: why would there be a Commandment to honor the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a celebration of God as Creator.

Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151655 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
What does that mean? Explain why I feel it, where it came from, how it serves me, or something else? I think I can, but so what if I couldn't? Is that an argument for a god or gods? Already stipulated.
You still have failed to make a case for the creator god or gods of the universe being Jehovah-Jesus. I'm starting to think that you can't.
I don't have to make a case, the truth of Gods existance is self evident.

Why do you think you have the right to put God on trial?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151656 Feb 4, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I make no claim. You declare your diety as fact without a shred of evidence. I think 'true believers' are mentally unstable, filled wih fear of their own mortality and willing to abandon reason for fantasy.
You make no claim?

Then make a claim?

You still have not answered how you can account for absolute morality?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151657 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.
Rational ideas based on mountains of evidence? Idiotic!

Man made out of dust and woman made out of a rib? Genius!
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#151658 Feb 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
At the end of the day human beings are still just liddle kiddles with a pocketful of the things they found in this life. Emergent consciousnesses.
Makes for some very complicated interactions, sharing what they found, and the fascination they have with them.
I just wish these Topix atheists weren't so fond of piles of shit.
I also wish certain theists weren't so fond of piles of dirt, that somehow magically turned into a fully formed male.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151659 Feb 4, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I can admit that although I don't believe that to be true, it is possible that if there is a god... he could have given me this without my knowledge.
<quoted text>
I understand in a sense. We could say that killing is wrong, period! That seems absolute. To myself that does seem absolute... pretty clear and solid. God has this in his top 10 list.
I see a few possible problems... Are we obeying god? Or is it like you mentioned, instinctive?
Is it really this simple? What about in a hostage situation? I would imagine that if we are obeying god, there is no question here. Try hard to negotiate then clean up all of the bodies.
I admit I have purposely tried to leave morality alone because of how sticky the subject is but I was bothered when you tried telling me what I believe and called me a liar..... Congrats you got me to join the morality conversation! Lol.
<quoted text>
All I can give you here is the possibility that although I do not believe in god, if he exists he could have given me moral instincts and either Satan or my limited intelligence has blocked the source.
I guarantee, however, that I am following a set of rules in a book i believe in.... and conveniently lie and pretend that i don't believe for the purpose of breaking those rules when i want to. This is as I mentioned before, nonsensical. If i believed... I would know that i would not be able to fool god.
I would hope you don't think we are all that stupid. ;-)
It is quite simple.

The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.

There are transcendent laws that govern every aspect of our being.

Laws of logic, morality and laws of uniformity.

Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).

And those laws are in you and around you.

As an atheist, you have no basis to account for them, yet you must appeal to them to argue your own worldview.

But what happens is the conclusion of those laws and the place they take a person, is something that our sinful nature wants to suppress.

So on the one hand atheists operate on these laws (when sin does not obscure them) and appeal to these laws, but on the other try to deny them because of the conclusion they lead the atheist to...

The evidence is internal and external and that is why every man can and will be judged by God.

We all know...

But some suppress that truth, because they do not like the claim God makes on them.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151660 Feb 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
No.
As usual you are wrong.
First you must demonstrate there is a god.
Then you demonstrate he is a moral god.
Then you must demonstrate he gave said morals to us.
You can't even accomplish step one and you refuse to speak about your god's morality when it is brought up thus you must not even believe it yourself.
<quoted text>
God exists, all the worldviews that try to suppress that truth, are quickly reduced to logical absurdity.

Again, you refuse to account for the absolute standards of morality you appeal to...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151661 Feb 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well we can't assign morality to something we can't demonstrate so logically god is out.
And again this has been covered. Humans are a social tribal creature we long to be part of a tribe so to speak. As social creatures certain social expectations need to be met or the tribe so to speak will remove or ignore you. We can see this in hundreds of animal species who are social. Ravens take one mate for life for example and stay with them. Primates demonstrate social behaviors and even punishment for breaking those. Dolphins and elephants are known to mourn their dead especially if a young one dies.
Behaving in a socially acceptable way is nothing new and is not only seen in the human community.
So assigning this well established evolved process seen in several different species to some invisible sky wizard is foolish and a logical fallacy. We have evolved this way for survival.
<quoted text>
So slavery and rape is okay as long as it benefits the majority of the society that approves it?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#151662 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>So secular atheism is not aggressive, doesn't try to indoctrinate belief systems in schools and get those beliefs legislated by congress.

Such beliefs as:

Evolution
Abiogenesis
Naturalism
Homosexuality
Child Sacrifice.

But putting that obvious discrepancy aside.

Why are you so concerned with sharing the idea that you hold an absolute moral position (secularism being superior), when you do not believe in absolute moral positions?
Yeah.

I just heard they passed the evolution law.

Sorry.
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#151663 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, people believe that rocks turned into men, so you may have a point there...
I thought it was DIRT that you morons believe man was made of !

www.evilbible.com

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151664 Feb 4, 2013
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
Theists are liars and thieves
And if it were true, which it patently is not...

...Why would you as an atheist feel the need to make an absolute moral judgement invoking absolute moral standards and absolute authority in your statement?

How do you account for your absolutism?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#151665 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is quite simple.
The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.
There are transcendent laws that govern every aspect of our being.
Laws of logic, morality and laws of uniformity.
Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).
And those laws are in you and around you.
As an atheist, you have no basis to account for them, yet you must appeal to them to argue your own worldview.
But what happens is the conclusion of those laws and the place they take a person, is something that our sinful nature wants to suppress.
So on the one hand atheists operate on these laws (when sin does not obscure them) and appeal to these laws, but on the other try to deny them because of the conclusion they lead the atheist to...
The evidence is internal and external and that is why every man can and will be judged by God.
We all know...
But some suppress that truth, because they do not like the claim God makes on them.
prove god exists first

Can you do that?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151666 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is quite simple.
The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.
You're mixing the terms absolute morality and universal/objective morality.

You've yet to explain why different people appeal to different moral systems, if there is one universal moral system.
mtimber wrote:
Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).
They're not transcendent; they're quite clearly based around culture, reason, and emotion (or something other things).

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151667 Feb 4, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Rational ideas based on mountains of evidence? Idiotic!
Man made out of dust and woman made out of a rib? Genius!
Can you account for the laws of logic that underpin logic from an atheistic perspective?

If not, then you need to start there, before appealing to sole ownership of it.

Otherwise you could be regarded as a thief, who has stole something that does not belong to him...

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151668 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery and rape is okay as long as it benefits the majority of the society that approves it?
Slavery and rape are both condoned by the Bible, so how do you feel about them?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#151669 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
You are an atheist, you cannot account for "truth".
So "proof" is meaningless in an atheistic worldview, it is not expected or required.
straw man FALLACY

try to do better

http://nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

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