Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#151641 Feb 4, 2013
Bet the reject has ever done actually :)
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
hahAhAA
GOOD rebuttal.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#151642 Feb 4, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>I had to remove bit's of your post it made me go above the character cap.

Have things like the above been done by the religious or have they not? I think it’s pretty safe to say mass killings have been done by your lot in the past too with a logical (if your religious) reason, God told them to! Now try and show that atheism is a reason for genocide go on try it! You will fail at best you will link anti-theism (the belief that religion is a actively harming us(I know the name sucks)) with genocide but not the belief in the lack of a god/disbelief in god so you haven’t refuted me at all we are still waiting for an evil action that only I can do.
On a less relevant point all but Jeffrey Dahmer had a cult of personality once again showing at least a link between religious like thinking to the willingness to do evil.
MythBusters: Without Religion there would be no War
Posted by Justin Ferriman
Christian Commentary

I can’t count the number of times I have heard this ‘argument’ on the internet from amateur atheists. Naturally, the more seasoned of us know that this is simply not true, but it seems to be a staple in atheistland that the newcomers love to recite.

I am not naive to the fact that religion is probably the reason most used to justify conflicts, but I strongly refute the idea that a warless world is only obtainable through the elimination of religion (human nature won’t allow it). I was looking around the internet for different wars that aren’t religiously driven to back my claim and I stumbled upon someones post in a forum. I don’t know who the author is, but it sums out my viewpoints on the matter pretty thoroughly. Enjoy

Much is said, today, on the issue of religious wars. Without question, religion has been (if only superficially) the banner of countless wars throughout history. Lists are often compiled, naming various instances of religious war (as, for example, this list).

One might reasonably ask, however, whether or not there is a corresponding list of non-religious wars. After all, if religion is really good for nothing but “starting wars,” then surely its elimination would do away with, or at least considerably diminish, the perpetuation of warfare across the globe.

Jack Perry has presented one such list of non-religious wars, as follows:

1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)
2.)The American Revolution
3.)The French Revolution
4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)
5.)The Revolutions in the Americas
6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)
7.)The American Civil War
8.)The Crimean War
9.)The Spanish-American War
10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)
11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia
12.)The Spanish Civil War
13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland
14.)World War II
15.)The Chinese Revolution
16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan
17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)
18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution
19.)The Falklands War
20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq
21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq
The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).

http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbuste...

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151643 Feb 4, 2013
Well said and indeed it is commanded in their holy book. The dark Palestinian god Jesus-Yahweh-Allah that they worship demands violence to non believers. We see them fighting between their dark religious side and modern secular morals that state you can't burn people at the stake because they don't attend your church.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no reason to believe that if they legalized witch burning again that the Christians wouldn't be setting people on fire again. Here's a good question to ask a Christian who claims that they're over their sadism:
Can you name one society in history where Christians had the power to burn or impale unbelievers with impunity, but elected not to use it? Can you name one instance of Christians saying, "Yes, we could burn people alive that we don't approve of, but we choose not to do it, because that would be barbaric and sadistic"?

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151644 Feb 4, 2013
Did you swallow like a good spunk spittoon?
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, in the words of Connolly "Don't vote! You'll only encourage the bastards!"

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151645 Feb 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Did you swallow like a good spunk spittoon?
Wouldn't you like to know

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151646 Feb 4, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it.
Why?

You are an atheist, you cannot account for "truth".

So "proof" is meaningless in an atheistic worldview, it is not expected or required.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151647 Feb 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think you can exempt your god from your own assertions? Doesn't work like that. If everything needs to be created, then so does your god, that means your god has to have a god as well.
You are making an absolute truth claim here, that everything needs to be created.

You can only make that if you absolutely know all truth.

Upon what basis do you make that absolute truth claim?

Is it your own arbitrary opinion?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151648 Feb 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep repeating that. Perhaps someone will start to believe it if it is repeated enough times.
Well, people believe that rocks turned into men, so you may have a point there...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151649 Feb 4, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Morals are the rules of group cooperation. They exist because they are a benefit to our survival, without them civilization could not have occurred. They are subjective, depending on human wants and needs. Read The Evolution of Morality By Richard Joyce.
Ok, so slavery and rape are subjective moral positions then?

As long as it benefits the larger number of people, it is okay?

Do you really believe what you are presenting here?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151650 Feb 4, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop sidestepping the question and explain a blind retarded girl with deformed limbs. How is a world full of unjust suffering compatible with the idea of a moral creator god? Did god screw up or does he not care about unjust suffering?
You are an atheist, how can you appeal to absolute morals like you have done here?

What is "unjust" suffering in an atheistic worldview, if there is not absolute standard of morality and therefore no judgement?

You are appealing to something outside of atheism as the basis for your beliefs here, do you understand that?

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Sdertlje, Sweden

#151651 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
You are an atheist, you cannot account for "truth".
So "proof" is meaningless in an atheistic worldview, it is not expected or required.
Theists are liars and thieves

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151652 Feb 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the Christians are the ones we have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. They are the ones attempting to get their beliefs taught in schools, legislated by Congress, and supported by the government. If Islam was doing the same things here, we would 'display tension' about them in the same way. Both are dangerous, but in different ways. Today Islam is the more violent, although that has not always been the case.
So secular atheism is not aggressive, doesn't try to indoctrinate belief systems in schools and get those beliefs legislated by congress.

Such beliefs as:

Evolution
Abiogenesis
Naturalism
Homosexuality
Child Sacrifice.

But putting that obvious discrepancy aside.

Why are you so concerned with sharing the idea that you hold an absolute moral position (secularism being superior), when you do not believe in absolute moral positions?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151653 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"God" doesn't exist. Neither so absolute morals.
Are you absolutely sure that you want to make an absolute knowledge claim like this?

Upon what basis do you claim omniscience for yourself?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151654 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Put on your skeptics cap and see if you can answer this from an unbeliever's perspective: why would there be a Commandment to honor the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a celebration of God as Creator.

Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151655 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
What does that mean? Explain why I feel it, where it came from, how it serves me, or something else? I think I can, but so what if I couldn't? Is that an argument for a god or gods? Already stipulated.
You still have failed to make a case for the creator god or gods of the universe being Jehovah-Jesus. I'm starting to think that you can't.
I don't have to make a case, the truth of Gods existance is self evident.

Why do you think you have the right to put God on trial?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151656 Feb 4, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I make no claim. You declare your diety as fact without a shred of evidence. I think 'true believers' are mentally unstable, filled wih fear of their own mortality and willing to abandon reason for fantasy.
You make no claim?

Then make a claim?

You still have not answered how you can account for absolute morality?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151657 Feb 4, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Remembering that, would have stopped idiotic ideas like evolution springing up and polluting childrens minds.
Rational ideas based on mountains of evidence? Idiotic!

Man made out of dust and woman made out of a rib? Genius!
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#151658 Feb 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
At the end of the day human beings are still just liddle kiddles with a pocketful of the things they found in this life. Emergent consciousnesses.
Makes for some very complicated interactions, sharing what they found, and the fascination they have with them.
I just wish these Topix atheists weren't so fond of piles of shit.
I also wish certain theists weren't so fond of piles of dirt, that somehow magically turned into a fully formed male.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151659 Feb 4, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I can admit that although I don't believe that to be true, it is possible that if there is a god... he could have given me this without my knowledge.
<quoted text>
I understand in a sense. We could say that killing is wrong, period! That seems absolute. To myself that does seem absolute... pretty clear and solid. God has this in his top 10 list.
I see a few possible problems... Are we obeying god? Or is it like you mentioned, instinctive?
Is it really this simple? What about in a hostage situation? I would imagine that if we are obeying god, there is no question here. Try hard to negotiate then clean up all of the bodies.
I admit I have purposely tried to leave morality alone because of how sticky the subject is but I was bothered when you tried telling me what I believe and called me a liar..... Congrats you got me to join the morality conversation! Lol.
<quoted text>
All I can give you here is the possibility that although I do not believe in god, if he exists he could have given me moral instincts and either Satan or my limited intelligence has blocked the source.
I guarantee, however, that I am following a set of rules in a book i believe in.... and conveniently lie and pretend that i don't believe for the purpose of breaking those rules when i want to. This is as I mentioned before, nonsensical. If i believed... I would know that i would not be able to fool god.
I would hope you don't think we are all that stupid. ;-)
It is quite simple.

The fact you and everyone else appeals to absolute morality, shows an awareness of that absolute morality.

There are transcendent laws that govern every aspect of our being.

Laws of logic, morality and laws of uniformity.

Those laws cannot be accounted for as a product of humanity, as they are transcendent, they have to have a higher intelligent source (morality and logic demand intelligence as a source).

And those laws are in you and around you.

As an atheist, you have no basis to account for them, yet you must appeal to them to argue your own worldview.

But what happens is the conclusion of those laws and the place they take a person, is something that our sinful nature wants to suppress.

So on the one hand atheists operate on these laws (when sin does not obscure them) and appeal to these laws, but on the other try to deny them because of the conclusion they lead the atheist to...

The evidence is internal and external and that is why every man can and will be judged by God.

We all know...

But some suppress that truth, because they do not like the claim God makes on them.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151660 Feb 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
No.
As usual you are wrong.
First you must demonstrate there is a god.
Then you demonstrate he is a moral god.
Then you must demonstrate he gave said morals to us.
You can't even accomplish step one and you refuse to speak about your god's morality when it is brought up thus you must not even believe it yourself.
<quoted text>
God exists, all the worldviews that try to suppress that truth, are quickly reduced to logical absurdity.

Again, you refuse to account for the absolute standards of morality you appeal to...

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