Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247437 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#151626 Feb 4, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I was born perfect the first time, too bad so many need to be reborn! What was broke? Why the celestial recall?
Please share this insightful Christian knowledge, in person, with any Muslim. They need saving too... Correct?
If there is truly safety on numbers...
Tell that to 6 million Jews
have no idea
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151627 Feb 4, 2013
Hi Folks, can I canvas your opinion. I was thinking yet another reason against religion is that Christianity today has departed so continually evolving. So that what is practised today is a long way departed from the original and therefore inauthentic. SO that for example early christianity may have been a simple affair, without worshipping Jesus, and without music and any of the traditions we now have. So that what we have in the present day is a fake representation of what is purports to represent. Your thoughts?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151628 Feb 4, 2013
Just noticed the poor grammer. Must be driving you literate folks up the wall ;)

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#151629 Feb 4, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
A good retort except there are crimes that have been done by Atheist that aren’t typically done by people of faith.
Let’s start with cannibalism of young boys for example. Oh bombing Red Cross Hospitals, killing hundreds of millions of people through starvation, killing people who were intelligent, killing people wearing glasses, killing people who could speak another language.
All of those crimes were done at the hands of Atheist. So you see Atheism has a far greater criminal and horrid past against humanity than you can imagine. Hundreds of millions have died in the last 100 years because of Atheist ideology. It does seem to appear that atheism has this very dark side that Atheist don’t like to see.
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison.He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia.
Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures.
Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. His “Great Leap Forward” triggered a catastrophic and massive famine.
Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.
Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee, from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin’s leadership, the Ukraine suffered a famine
I had to remove bit's of your post it made me go above the character cap.

Have things like the above been done by the religious or have they not? I think it’s pretty safe to say mass killings have been done by your lot in the past too with a logical (if your religious) reason, God told them to! Now try and show that atheism is a reason for genocide go on try it! You will fail at best you will link anti-theism (the belief that religion is a actively harming us(I know the name sucks)) with genocide but not the belief in the lack of a god/disbelief in god so you haven’t refuted me at all we are still waiting for an evil action that only I can do.
On a less relevant point all but Jeffrey Dahmer had a cult of personality once again showing at least a link between religious like thinking to the willingness to do evil.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#151630 Feb 4, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
A good retort except there are crimes that have been done by Atheist that aren’t typically done by people of faith.
Let’s start with cannibalism of young boys for example. Oh bombing Red Cross Hospitals, killing hundreds of millions of people through starvation, killing people who were intelligent, killing people wearing glasses, killing people who could speak another language.
All of those crimes were done at the hands of Atheist. So you see Atheism has a far greater criminal and horrid past against humanity than you can imagine. Hundreds of millions have died in the last 100 years because of Atheist ideology. It does seem to appear that atheism has this very dark side that Atheist don’t like to see.
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison.He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia.
Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures.
Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. His “Great Leap Forward” triggered a catastrophic and massive famine.
Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.
Has all this been doen by the religious to or not, are you saying religion can’t support the killing of others? What about divine command theory the idea that any thing God decrees is good . Can the above be done by religion or not? The answer as we both know because of the crusades, because of the Catholic Church’s concordat with the Nazis (in spite of some of it’s anti-clerical and pagan elements)[1], and because of the Catholic Church’s good relationship with Mussolini[2], and hell even because of the cult’s of personality made by Communists[3] is yes you can do all they have done to. All you have done is pointed to evil people who just happened to be atheist and who’s actions can be done by any, and said see “look there atheism is evil” with out even showing how their atheism even affected their actions (if at all). Now answer the challenge properly or admit your wrong... that’s the choice you have to make, now hop to it I’m tired of people name dropping the communists without any understanding of how they thought though things.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_...
[2] http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mussolin...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personal...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#151631 Feb 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Okay let point out the fallacy in your arguments.
"outside this universe"?
This will take much speculation.
I made no reference to tuning, fine tuning or anything of the nature.
"Nope, the heart of this mystery is being investigated and with all probability within my lifetime this mystery will no longer be a mystery. Whether you or anyone else accepts that progress is your choice"
Arrogance and wishful thinking.
"Actually not arrogant and haughty reasoning but the reasoning of world renowned (physicists and cosmologist as there knowledge)"
Argument from authority.
"involved in pre big bang cosmological hypothesis"
Another way of saying conjecture.
"science and mathematics has taken over"
This is a conflicted statement, exactly what have science and math taken over?
I agree some of us use reasoning and science as tools to better understand the world, but has science taken over?
Will science conquer Iran's Theocracy?
The universe itself IS a paradox , can you say why there is something instead of nothing?
Why a infinitesimal became infinite, or even how is it not paradoxical in nature right down to Schroeder's cat and the time that passed for a photon to exist both 13 bya and now , despite your protest it is.
Just how old is a photon that originated shortly after the BB and has traveled 40 billion light years? Hint how does a photon appear to break causality?
The universe is a conglomeration of paradoxes.
Which is why I said “Those laws “may or may” not exists outside the domain of this universe”

I am sure you did mention tuned (or similar) which is why I answered in that way – having just checked I apologise, you wrote “turned” and I misread it, dyslexia is a bugger eh? However see later in this post regarding infinite…

Scientific projects in the process, you may of course consider it arrogance and wishful thinking to want to understand, but that’s your problem. Refer to http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/research/res... if you don’t want to look so foolish, they have plenty of papers for public view in the sciences related to cosmology

Which other way is there to argue, I realise you make the most of it but arguing from naivety does not really count

Nope a way of saying hypothesis, conjecture is something entirely different so don’t try and tell me what I am saying when you can’t even understand the difference.

Well if you will cherry pick then you will be left with incomplete statements. Here let me cite the complete sentence “The time of some bronze age guy saying godidit is gone, science and mathematics has taken over.”

Well science certainly allows you to post on topix and has allowed Iran to create a nuclear industry and rockets (for whatever purpose). Your personal politics is bugger all to do with the science.

No, can you say why there is something instead of nothing? Just because the creation event is not yet understood it does not mean it’s contradictory, it just means it’s not understood.

Once again there is nothing in the universe that is contradictory. It is a completely logical and predictable environment from 10^-34th of a second after it’s creation to now and for trillions of years into the future. Prior to 10^-34th of a second is not understood but is conjectured.

It is possible that the universe is infinite but as far as we know and in probability it is not. More probably there are infinite finite universes.

Schroeder is said to have said in later life that he wished he had never met the cat.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151632 Feb 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much all of your points can be boiled down to:
People can lie online so they do.
Which is fallacious. Anonymity allows people to not lie, that was the point I stated, but it's not true anonymity, which destroys several of your points as they contradict each other as well as that one simple fact.
Let's use me as an example. In the physical world I am myself, a very open and outspoken atheist, and I am asexual. When a male flirts with me, I tend to ignore it, and tell them no. Their "feelings" get hurt because they're trying to impress their "friends" so they make themselves get angry and begin calling me names, like "dyke" and other variants. I am strong and just ignore them, a few times the cops have offered to arrest guys for that but I tend to decline and just prefer they make fools of themselves anyway.
I also speak freely about being an atheist all the time, if I am traveling to somewhere with someone there's always that "shh, you shouldn't talk about such things" from them, always. People are more interested in their social "appearances" in the physical world than being honest, online you can find a racist/sexist/phobic person in a few posts and know you don't want to associate with them, and then avoid them. In the physical world you cannot avoid the toxic people.
What a loser! You object to Lucinda's points because they are true, and you know it. Otherwise you would not have launched yourself into a confessional. I've met people like you, insecure shrinking violets hiding behind a facade of pertentious snobbery. In reality, you cower from life because people don't like you, particularly men. Online you've created a persona around all the things you can't be in the real world because of your feelings of inadequacy. After all your crap about myths, you're living a fantasy in cyberspace and find it far more exciting than your acutual life! Why else would you spend all day every day on several different forums trying to project a self image of superiority? Tsk. Tsk. The only one you are fooling is yourself, missy.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#151633 Feb 4, 2013
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
What a loser! You object to Lucinda's points because they are true, and you know it. Otherwise you would not have launched yourself into a confessional. I've met people like you, insecure shrinking violets hiding behind a facade of pertentious snobbery. In reality, you cower from life because people don't like you, particularly men. Online you've created a persona around all the things you can't be in the real world because of your feelings of inadequacy. After all your crap about myths, you're living a fantasy in cyberspace and find it far more exciting than your acutual life! Why else would you spend all day every day on several different forums trying to project a self image of superiority? Tsk. Tsk. The only one you are fooling is yourself, missy.
So, you don't like people being honest of who they are. You didn't need to type all the ad hom attempts to say that, you could have saved some bytes of data.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151634 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
"Obviously I'd like to show more respect to people's sincerely held beliefs, of course I would. But unfortunately that would violate my own sincerely held belief that religion is a filthy lie and a threat to civilization, so you can see the problem I've got with that." -Pat Condell
Pat Condell is just another insulting racist, intolerant atheist pig. He calls himself a comedian not knowing that he's the joke.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151635 Feb 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you don't like people being honest of who they are. You didn't need to type all the ad hom attempts to say that, you could have saved some bytes of data.
Pretentious snobs are not honest. THat simple enough for ya?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#151636 Feb 4, 2013
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretentious snobs are not honest. THat simple enough for ya?
They are not? Then you are changing the word "honest" to mean something completely different.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151637 Feb 4, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I dont trust the current lot either. Just look at the expansion of the drone war. And current wars in Afghanistan and Mali. I'm not saying there is necessarily an agenda going on, but that our leaders maybe are not acting in either an honest or rational way.
Again, in the words of Connolly "Don't vote! You'll only encourage the bastards!"

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#151638 Feb 4, 2013
Well after all the lies we have caught you in you are certainly projecting. Can you name one lie you have caught me in? Not your biased opinion but something I stated that is a factual lie?

Nope.

You may not like your betters Daffy but that doesn't make us liars.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Liars hate themselves. This is why they lie so the truth can be hid. For in their heart are deep seated secrets they want to keep hidden and buried under all those lies.
So what are you hiding?
This may explain the ugliness that you continuously expound.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#151639 Feb 4, 2013
As expected you dodged my question. Stalin is a hero and saint in the Russian Orthodox Church to this day and was beloved by them when he was alive as he went to their priest school and renovated several churches for them.

Still waiting for a totalitarian leader to claim he was killing in the name of Atheism as the Christians proudly killed and tortured in the name of Jesus during the crusades, Spanish Inquisition? Salem Witch trials.

Anytime now Daffy anytime now.

Waiting and waiting and zzzzzzzz waiting and waiting.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m not a student of the Salem Witch Trials.
I do know about Stalin, Pol Pot and many other murderous communist leaders who killed hundreds of millions.
So how many millions died in the Salem Witch Trials?
Waiting,.....Zzzzzzzzz
Imhotep

United States

#151640 Feb 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
At the end of the day human beings are still just liddle kiddles with a pocketful of the things they found in this life. Emergent consciousnesses.
Makes for some very complicated interactions, sharing what they found, and the fascination they have with them.
I just wish these Topix atheists weren't so fond of piles of shit.
We aren't but your religion is very fond.

“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight." - Ezekiel 4:12

We can discuss Gods love of foreskins next!
Maybe he made foreskin jerky?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#151641 Feb 4, 2013
Bet the reject has ever done actually :)
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
hahAhAA
GOOD rebuttal.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#151642 Feb 4, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>I had to remove bit's of your post it made me go above the character cap.

Have things like the above been done by the religious or have they not? I think it’s pretty safe to say mass killings have been done by your lot in the past too with a logical (if your religious) reason, God told them to! Now try and show that atheism is a reason for genocide go on try it! You will fail at best you will link anti-theism (the belief that religion is a actively harming us(I know the name sucks)) with genocide but not the belief in the lack of a god/disbelief in god so you haven’t refuted me at all we are still waiting for an evil action that only I can do.
On a less relevant point all but Jeffrey Dahmer had a cult of personality once again showing at least a link between religious like thinking to the willingness to do evil.
MythBusters: Without Religion there would be no War
Posted by Justin Ferriman
Christian Commentary

I can’t count the number of times I have heard this ‘argument’ on the internet from amateur atheists. Naturally, the more seasoned of us know that this is simply not true, but it seems to be a staple in atheistland that the newcomers love to recite.

I am not naive to the fact that religion is probably the reason most used to justify conflicts, but I strongly refute the idea that a warless world is only obtainable through the elimination of religion (human nature won’t allow it). I was looking around the internet for different wars that aren’t religiously driven to back my claim and I stumbled upon someones post in a forum. I don’t know who the author is, but it sums out my viewpoints on the matter pretty thoroughly. Enjoy

Much is said, today, on the issue of religious wars. Without question, religion has been (if only superficially) the banner of countless wars throughout history. Lists are often compiled, naming various instances of religious war (as, for example, this list).

One might reasonably ask, however, whether or not there is a corresponding list of non-religious wars. After all, if religion is really good for nothing but “starting wars,” then surely its elimination would do away with, or at least considerably diminish, the perpetuation of warfare across the globe.

Jack Perry has presented one such list of non-religious wars, as follows:

1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)
2.)The American Revolution
3.)The French Revolution
4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)
5.)The Revolutions in the Americas
6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)
7.)The American Civil War
8.)The Crimean War
9.)The Spanish-American War
10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)
11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia
12.)The Spanish Civil War
13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland
14.)World War II
15.)The Chinese Revolution
16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan
17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)
18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution
19.)The Falklands War
20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq
21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq
The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).

http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbuste...

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151643 Feb 4, 2013
Well said and indeed it is commanded in their holy book. The dark Palestinian god Jesus-Yahweh-Allah that they worship demands violence to non believers. We see them fighting between their dark religious side and modern secular morals that state you can't burn people at the stake because they don't attend your church.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no reason to believe that if they legalized witch burning again that the Christians wouldn't be setting people on fire again. Here's a good question to ask a Christian who claims that they're over their sadism:
Can you name one society in history where Christians had the power to burn or impale unbelievers with impunity, but elected not to use it? Can you name one instance of Christians saying, "Yes, we could burn people alive that we don't approve of, but we choose not to do it, because that would be barbaric and sadistic"?

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151644 Feb 4, 2013
Did you swallow like a good spunk spittoon?
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, in the words of Connolly "Don't vote! You'll only encourage the bastards!"

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#151645 Feb 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Did you swallow like a good spunk spittoon?
Wouldn't you like to know

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