Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 243188 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151614 Feb 4, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I'd rather deploy drones than see our guys get their legs blown off.
<quoted text>
Agreed. But think our leaders should be open about the use of drones, and not appear so secretive about it.
Thinking

Saffron Walden, UK

#151615 Feb 4, 2013
Fair enough.

They should also have the guts to say that islam is an embarrassing pain in the arse.

They should also have the guts to say that Western users create demand for drugs that in turn finances the IEDs used against our soldiers.
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. But think our leaders should be open about the use of drones, and not appear so secretive about it.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#151616 Feb 4, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ugh
hahAhAA

GOOD rebuttal.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151617 Feb 4, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I am addressing the topic, but there is no double standard.
You're not addressing it.

My friend can shoot lasers from his eyes.
"I reject that claim. Humans can't do that!"
My friend is a God, not a human.
Imhotep

United States

#151618 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This has been a huge advantage for unbelievers. I can express my opinions about the church without having my car keyed or my pets executed.
How do you think the Catholic church lost control of its pedophile problem? Before the Internet, they settled with the boys when they had to, with a gag provision to silence them.
Then came the Internet, and these victims found one another. It became apparent that in many cases, the same priest had molested several boys, the crime covered up, and the priest reassigned to a new and unsuspecting parish. The Internet blew the cover off of that and revealed the magnitude of the problem: the Catholic church is a de facto sex syndicate. It wouldn't have been possible without the anonymity that the Internet offers.
The Internet was probably the last nail in the coffin for Christianity in the West, the first perhaps being the advent of the printing press and literacy among lay people.
;)

I wholeheartedly agree and... It is also indicative of the demise of organized religions.

The Information Age has become the 'death rattle' of the Gods.

December 29, 2010
Near-Record High See Religion Losing Influence in America

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145409/Near-Record...

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151619 Feb 4, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I am addressing the topic, but there is no double standard.
God is not human & can't have superhuman powers.
Period.
Thats wonderful, except he keps pointing out that the comparison was with Jesus.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151620 Feb 4, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
December 29, 2010
Near-Record High See Religion Losing Influence in America
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145409/Near-Record...
I find this one interesting..
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159785/rise-religi...

The "Nones" are 17.8% up from 14.6% in 2008, but the rate of growth has slowed.

But I think longer term will be heading to 30%, as the poll shows 18-29 age group figure is 27%. A higher proportion of young people do not have a religion.
Imhotep

United States

#151621 Feb 4, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Edited for space:
<quoted text>
Here are a few more for your collection:
[1] "Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:19-20
[2] "His breasts are full of milk." - Job 21:24
[3] "If two men are fighting not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." – Judges 19:24-25
[16] "So we boiled my son, and ate him. And on the next day I said to her,`Give your son, that we may eat him.' but she has hidden her son" (2 Kings 6:28-29)
[17]“The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods (hemorrhoids), and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.”– Deuteronomy 28:27
LQTM !

The individuals that accept this are more disturbing than the book itself.

Few have read it and the clergy omit over 50% from discussion, in public, e.g. church.

There are ample passages that contain the worst of a God and should demand something more substantial than "mysterious ways" as a reason.

Faith is the great excuse for the inexcusable.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#151622 Feb 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
At the end of the day human beings are still just liddle kiddles with a pocketful of the things they found in this life. Emergent consciousnesses.
Makes for some very complicated interactions, sharing what they found, and the fascination they have with them.
I just wish these Topix atheists weren't so fond of piles of shit.
What makes you think we're fond of you?

:-)

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#151623 Feb 4, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think we're fond of you?
:-)
:-)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#151624 Feb 4, 2013
LucindaW wrote:
<quoted text>
Disadvantages of communicating on the Internet:
1) Lying online is much easier than it is face to face.
2) Hiding behind the anonymity of a computer gives people more courage to say things they wouldn't ordinarily say to someone in person.
3) You can't read body language online. You can't see how your words affect another.
4) Faceless communication online allows individuals to bypass a lot of shyness and awkwardness. Wallflowers can become stars in chat rooms.
5) The ability to develop alternative online personas provides a psychological escape for some people.
6) Many find more excitement in the virtual world than they do in their real lives!
7) Innuendo, intonation, and touch are all absent on the Internet.
8) Trading intimacies in chatrooms can lead to addictive and compulsive behaviors that can destroy relationships in the real world.
9) Anonymous bullying using several identities is much easier online. I believe people who engage in this practice are called flamers.
10) There can be no reciprocity communicating at a distance.
Pretty much all of your points can be boiled down to:

People can lie online so they do.

Which is fallacious. Anonymity allows people to not lie, that was the point I stated, but it's not true anonymity, which destroys several of your points as they contradict each other as well as that one simple fact.

Let's use me as an example. In the physical world I am myself, a very open and outspoken atheist, and I am asexual. When a male flirts with me, I tend to ignore it, and tell them no. Their "feelings" get hurt because they're trying to impress their "friends" so they make themselves get angry and begin calling me names, like "dyke" and other variants. I am strong and just ignore them, a few times the cops have offered to arrest guys for that but I tend to decline and just prefer they make fools of themselves anyway.

I also speak freely about being an atheist all the time, if I am traveling to somewhere with someone there's always that "shh, you shouldn't talk about such things" from them, always. People are more interested in their social "appearances" in the physical world than being honest, online you can find a racist/sexist/phobic person in a few posts and know you don't want to associate with them, and then avoid them. In the physical world you cannot avoid the toxic people.
bohart

Newport, TN

#151625 Feb 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Why because you say it? Hardly evidence that it isn't what happened, just the uneducated ass who hears something it doesn't like to hear.
The evidence clearly shows that life sprang from a set of conditions, and that it is not impossible, but is very probable.
Here we go again , the evidence clearly shows?, is very probable ? both are lies told to defend your faith.Denial , one of the main tenets of the puddle gooist church.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#151626 Feb 4, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I was born perfect the first time, too bad so many need to be reborn! What was broke? Why the celestial recall?
Please share this insightful Christian knowledge, in person, with any Muslim. They need saving too... Correct?
If there is truly safety on numbers...
Tell that to 6 million Jews
have no idea
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151627 Feb 4, 2013
Hi Folks, can I canvas your opinion. I was thinking yet another reason against religion is that Christianity today has departed so continually evolving. So that what is practised today is a long way departed from the original and therefore inauthentic. SO that for example early christianity may have been a simple affair, without worshipping Jesus, and without music and any of the traditions we now have. So that what we have in the present day is a fake representation of what is purports to represent. Your thoughts?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#151628 Feb 4, 2013
Just noticed the poor grammer. Must be driving you literate folks up the wall ;)

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#151629 Feb 4, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
A good retort except there are crimes that have been done by Atheist that aren’t typically done by people of faith.
Let’s start with cannibalism of young boys for example. Oh bombing Red Cross Hospitals, killing hundreds of millions of people through starvation, killing people who were intelligent, killing people wearing glasses, killing people who could speak another language.
All of those crimes were done at the hands of Atheist. So you see Atheism has a far greater criminal and horrid past against humanity than you can imagine. Hundreds of millions have died in the last 100 years because of Atheist ideology. It does seem to appear that atheism has this very dark side that Atheist don’t like to see.
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison.He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia.
Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures.
Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. His “Great Leap Forward” triggered a catastrophic and massive famine.
Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.
Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee, from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin’s leadership, the Ukraine suffered a famine
I had to remove bit's of your post it made me go above the character cap.

Have things like the above been done by the religious or have they not? I think it’s pretty safe to say mass killings have been done by your lot in the past too with a logical (if your religious) reason, God told them to! Now try and show that atheism is a reason for genocide go on try it! You will fail at best you will link anti-theism (the belief that religion is a actively harming us(I know the name sucks)) with genocide but not the belief in the lack of a god/disbelief in god so you haven’t refuted me at all we are still waiting for an evil action that only I can do.
On a less relevant point all but Jeffrey Dahmer had a cult of personality once again showing at least a link between religious like thinking to the willingness to do evil.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#151630 Feb 4, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
A good retort except there are crimes that have been done by Atheist that aren’t typically done by people of faith.
Let’s start with cannibalism of young boys for example. Oh bombing Red Cross Hospitals, killing hundreds of millions of people through starvation, killing people who were intelligent, killing people wearing glasses, killing people who could speak another language.
All of those crimes were done at the hands of Atheist. So you see Atheism has a far greater criminal and horrid past against humanity than you can imagine. Hundreds of millions have died in the last 100 years because of Atheist ideology. It does seem to appear that atheism has this very dark side that Atheist don’t like to see.
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison.He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia.
Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures.
Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. His “Great Leap Forward” triggered a catastrophic and massive famine.
Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.
Has all this been doen by the religious to or not, are you saying religion can’t support the killing of others? What about divine command theory the idea that any thing God decrees is good . Can the above be done by religion or not? The answer as we both know because of the crusades, because of the Catholic Church’s concordat with the Nazis (in spite of some of it’s anti-clerical and pagan elements)[1], and because of the Catholic Church’s good relationship with Mussolini[2], and hell even because of the cult’s of personality made by Communists[3] is yes you can do all they have done to. All you have done is pointed to evil people who just happened to be atheist and who’s actions can be done by any, and said see “look there atheism is evil” with out even showing how their atheism even affected their actions (if at all). Now answer the challenge properly or admit your wrong... that’s the choice you have to make, now hop to it I’m tired of people name dropping the communists without any understanding of how they thought though things.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_...
[2] http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mussolin...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personal...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#151631 Feb 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Okay let point out the fallacy in your arguments.
"outside this universe"?
This will take much speculation.
I made no reference to tuning, fine tuning or anything of the nature.
"Nope, the heart of this mystery is being investigated and with all probability within my lifetime this mystery will no longer be a mystery. Whether you or anyone else accepts that progress is your choice"
Arrogance and wishful thinking.
"Actually not arrogant and haughty reasoning but the reasoning of world renowned (physicists and cosmologist as there knowledge)"
Argument from authority.
"involved in pre big bang cosmological hypothesis"
Another way of saying conjecture.
"science and mathematics has taken over"
This is a conflicted statement, exactly what have science and math taken over?
I agree some of us use reasoning and science as tools to better understand the world, but has science taken over?
Will science conquer Iran's Theocracy?
The universe itself IS a paradox , can you say why there is something instead of nothing?
Why a infinitesimal became infinite, or even how is it not paradoxical in nature right down to Schroeder's cat and the time that passed for a photon to exist both 13 bya and now , despite your protest it is.
Just how old is a photon that originated shortly after the BB and has traveled 40 billion light years? Hint how does a photon appear to break causality?
The universe is a conglomeration of paradoxes.
Which is why I said “Those laws “may or may” not exists outside the domain of this universe”

I am sure you did mention tuned (or similar) which is why I answered in that way – having just checked I apologise, you wrote “turned” and I misread it, dyslexia is a bugger eh? However see later in this post regarding infinite…

Scientific projects in the process, you may of course consider it arrogance and wishful thinking to want to understand, but that’s your problem. Refer to http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/research/res... if you don’t want to look so foolish, they have plenty of papers for public view in the sciences related to cosmology

Which other way is there to argue, I realise you make the most of it but arguing from naivety does not really count

Nope a way of saying hypothesis, conjecture is something entirely different so don’t try and tell me what I am saying when you can’t even understand the difference.

Well if you will cherry pick then you will be left with incomplete statements. Here let me cite the complete sentence “The time of some bronze age guy saying godidit is gone, science and mathematics has taken over.”

Well science certainly allows you to post on topix and has allowed Iran to create a nuclear industry and rockets (for whatever purpose). Your personal politics is bugger all to do with the science.

No, can you say why there is something instead of nothing? Just because the creation event is not yet understood it does not mean it’s contradictory, it just means it’s not understood.

Once again there is nothing in the universe that is contradictory. It is a completely logical and predictable environment from 10^-34th of a second after it’s creation to now and for trillions of years into the future. Prior to 10^-34th of a second is not understood but is conjectured.

It is possible that the universe is infinite but as far as we know and in probability it is not. More probably there are infinite finite universes.

Schroeder is said to have said in later life that he wished he had never met the cat.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151632 Feb 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much all of your points can be boiled down to:
People can lie online so they do.
Which is fallacious. Anonymity allows people to not lie, that was the point I stated, but it's not true anonymity, which destroys several of your points as they contradict each other as well as that one simple fact.
Let's use me as an example. In the physical world I am myself, a very open and outspoken atheist, and I am asexual. When a male flirts with me, I tend to ignore it, and tell them no. Their "feelings" get hurt because they're trying to impress their "friends" so they make themselves get angry and begin calling me names, like "dyke" and other variants. I am strong and just ignore them, a few times the cops have offered to arrest guys for that but I tend to decline and just prefer they make fools of themselves anyway.
I also speak freely about being an atheist all the time, if I am traveling to somewhere with someone there's always that "shh, you shouldn't talk about such things" from them, always. People are more interested in their social "appearances" in the physical world than being honest, online you can find a racist/sexist/phobic person in a few posts and know you don't want to associate with them, and then avoid them. In the physical world you cannot avoid the toxic people.
What a loser! You object to Lucinda's points because they are true, and you know it. Otherwise you would not have launched yourself into a confessional. I've met people like you, insecure shrinking violets hiding behind a facade of pertentious snobbery. In reality, you cower from life because people don't like you, particularly men. Online you've created a persona around all the things you can't be in the real world because of your feelings of inadequacy. After all your crap about myths, you're living a fantasy in cyberspace and find it far more exciting than your acutual life! Why else would you spend all day every day on several different forums trying to project a self image of superiority? Tsk. Tsk. The only one you are fooling is yourself, missy.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#151633 Feb 4, 2013
BBSting wrote:
<quoted text>
What a loser! You object to Lucinda's points because they are true, and you know it. Otherwise you would not have launched yourself into a confessional. I've met people like you, insecure shrinking violets hiding behind a facade of pertentious snobbery. In reality, you cower from life because people don't like you, particularly men. Online you've created a persona around all the things you can't be in the real world because of your feelings of inadequacy. After all your crap about myths, you're living a fantasy in cyberspace and find it far more exciting than your acutual life! Why else would you spend all day every day on several different forums trying to project a self image of superiority? Tsk. Tsk. The only one you are fooling is yourself, missy.
So, you don't like people being honest of who they are. You didn't need to type all the ad hom attempts to say that, you could have saved some bytes of data.

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