Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Dec 11

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#151132 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Since when did you become we?
No one outside of (obviously biased) fundamentalist Christians considers the miracles of Jesus to be historical. They're mythical and legendary.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
LMAO! No, prove he even existed.
Poemsare written by people. The Iliad and Oddysey were likely written by the same person. Historians call this person Homer. Numerous people attributed the works to him.

What exactly is your argument here? That no one wrote the poems? That the person who wrote them was not named Homer?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Oh, I see now.
YOU find the stories of Jesus difficult to accept.....
Any reasonable person would. You would too, if you were being reasonable, but you're not.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
That doesn't mean they aren't true, that just means YOU don't accept them as true.
There is no reason to believe they are true. There is ample reason to believe they are false. The rational position is to reject the claims.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#151133 Jan 31, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and no. The Romans were quite happy to acknowledge other religions as long as they were willing to also accept the Roman deities. They also had a bias towards 'traditional' religions, meaning those that had existed for long periods of time already.
The Romans generally saw Christianity in the same category as other mystery religions, such as the cult of Isis or the Dionysian mysteries. They usually saw these cults as superstitious and because they were often secretive and exclusive, the Romans saw them as dangerous.
Christianity had the additional problem of being a new religion, although it was often seen as a side-branch of Judaism. When the Jewish wars happened, this caused a lot of bias against the Christians. So the Christians either had to associate with the Jews who were seen as disloyal and the cause of many problems OR they were seen as a new religion and hence a problem that way also.
Ah, thanks for the clarification on the points I failed to be accurate on. I'm not that big on Roman history and only know parts as a precursor to Egyptian history.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151134 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
Poemsare written by people. The Iliad and Oddysey were likely written by the same person. Historians call this person Homer. Numerous people attributed the works to him.
What exactly is your argument here? That no one wrote the poems?
That you cannot prove a historical figure without citing history, same as me.

The evidence of Homer's existence is less substantial than the evidence of Jesus'.

But you doubt Jesus.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151135 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Those accounts are no less valid than accounts of Jesus' miracles.
<quoted text>
The Koran contains unique writings, and was not written by Muhammad (who was probably illiterate), but by his immediate followers.
<quoted text>
Gautama Buddha was born in the 6th century BC. That's not medieval.
<quoted text>
...and so did early Christians. What's your point?
You haven't been able to provide any reason you accept the Gospels' claims about Jesus, but reject the claims of other religions.
Aside from Islam being a direct copy of Christianity, Buddha being a stoner & the Mormons were started pretty recently by a lying, greedy man?

Since: Dec 11

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#151136 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The evidence of Homer's existence is less substantial than the evidence of Jesus'.
But you doubt Jesus.
I didn't say I doubted Jesus' existence. I said there is no reason to believe the claims of miracles and divinity.

And that is true. The Gospel accounts reek of legend and myth-making.

They weren't written by historians looking to give an account of history. They were written by Christians looking to form a religion.

Since: Dec 11

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#151137 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Aside from Islam being a direct copy of Christianity, Buddha being a stoner & the Mormons were started pretty recently by a lying, greedy man?
Islam isn't a copy. It's an expansion, just as Christianity is an expansion of Judaism. How do you know Mohammad didn't meet Allah. It was written about.

Buddha was not a stoner. How do you know he didn't achieve Nirvana. It was written about.

Yes, Joseph Smith was a liar at times. But how do you know he didn't meet with angels? It was written about.

Are you ever going to apply the same standards to your religion that you to do others?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151138 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The evidence of Homer's existence is less substantial than the evidence of Jesus'
It is possible - highly likely, in fact - that nobody walked on water or turned water into wine. Thus the person alleged to have done these things, called Jesus, may never have lived.

It is not possible that nobody wrote the Iliad and Odyssey.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151139 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
I didn't say I doubted Jesus' existence. I said there is no reason to believe the claims of miracles and divinity.
Well thank yuou for sharing your opinion.

There's more reason to believe than not believe, though...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151140 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
Islam isn't a copy. It's an expansion, just as Christianity is an expansion of Judaism. How do you know Mohammad didn't meet Allah. It was written about.
How do you know he did?
Buddha was not a stoner. How do you know he didn't achieve Nirvana. It was written about.
How do you he wasn't a stoner? He might've reached Nirvana...
Yes, Joseph Smith was a liar at times. But how do you know he didn't meet with angels? It was written about.
He very well could have...
Are you ever going to apply the same standards to your religion that you to do others?
Are you ever gonna apply the same standards to your beliefs that you to do my religion?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151141 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
And that is true. The Gospel accounts reek of legend and myth-making.
They weren't written by historians looking to give an account of history. They were written by Christians looking to form a religion.
That is also your opinion, nothing more.

Since: Dec 11

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#151142 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Well thank yuou for sharing your opinion.
There's more reason to believe than not believe, though...
What reason? You haven't provided any.

Since: Dec 11

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#151143 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know he did?
I don't think he did. There is no evidence to support it.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
How do you he wasn't a stoner? He might've reached Nirvana...
Is there any evidence to suggest he was a stoner? That would go against his teachings.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
He very well could have...
I don't think he did. There is no evidence to support it.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Are you ever gonna apply the same standards to your beliefs that you to do my religion?
First, what beliefs am I following that I don't apply standards of skepticism to?

Secondly, please answer my question: Are you ever going to apply the same standards to your religion that you to do others?

Since: Dec 11

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#151144 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That is also your opinion, nothing more.
It's the opinion of scholars.

Why do you accept the Gospel stories at face value when, if you were told the same story by someone else, you'd call BS?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151145 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
I don't think he did. There is no evidence to support it.

Is there any evidence to suggest he was a stoner? That would go against his teachings.

I don't think he did. There is no evidence to support it.
OK then, all you habe is what you think. Correct.
First, what beliefs am I following that I don't apply standards of skepticism to?
You're implying that you only follow what is fact, when you have no facts (as seen above), just opinions.
Secondly, please answer my question: Are you ever going to apply the same standards to your religion that you to do others?
I always do.

There is multitudes of evidence that Islam is a copycat of Christianity.

What Muhammed had to say is irrelevant to me.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151146 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
It's the opinion of scholars.
OH!.... "scholars"

You make a strong argument, how can I argue with that?
Why do you accept the Gospel stories at face value when, if you were told the same story by someone else, you'd call BS?
Same story? I think you meant if I was told a different story...?

Since: Dec 11

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#151147 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
OK then, all you habe is what you think. Correct.
I have reason. I reject extraordinary claims that are unsupported by evidence.

You, on the other hand, accept some extraordinary claims that are unsupported by evidence, while rejecting others.

I am consistent. You are not.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I always do.
No, you don't, and you've already shown that. You take the Bible at face value, but don't do the same for other religious texts.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
There is multitudes of evidence that Islam is a copycat of Christianity.
How is it a copycat? The primary thing that Christianity added to Judaism was Jesus as God and Savior. Islam does not accept that.

Since: Dec 11

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#151148 Jan 31, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
OH!.... "scholars"
You make a strong argument, how can I argue with that?
You can't, because you know you historians don't accept religious claims as historical fact.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Same story? I think you meant if I was told a different story...?
No, the same story.

If we found a book written by anonymous members of David Koresh's cult, and it stated that David Koresh could magically heal the sick, walk on water, turn water into wine, and that he once died and resurrected, you would not believe it, would you?

Of course not. These claims are ridiculous. They're way out there. You would have to see some extremely good evidence before you accepted them as true.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#151149 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
I have reason. I reject extraordinary claims that are unsupported by evidence.
You, on the other hand, accept some extraordinary claims that are unsupported by evidence, while rejecting others.
I am consistent. You are not.
Yes, I have my beliefs & you have yours.
No, you don't, and you've already shown that. You take the Bible at face value, but don't do the same for other religious texts.
Now you're assuming I take the Bible at face value?

Knock it off.
How is it a copycat? The primary thing that Christianity added to Judaism was Jesus as God and Savior. Islam does not accept that.
There are so many similarities its ridiculous. Feel free to google it if you're not afraid to learn.

The bible has Adam
The Quran has Adam

In the bible, Jesus was born to the Virginia Mary
In the Quran, Jesus was born to the Virginia Mary

The list goes on and on and on.

Islam was "created" 600 years after Christianity, you can't say it wasn't copied.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151150 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
You can't, because you know you historians don't accept religious claims as historical fact.
Historians? I thought it was scholars....

Make up your mind.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151151 Jan 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
If we found a book written by anonymous members of David Koresh's cult, and it stated that David Koresh could magically heal the sick, walk on water, turn water into wine, and that he once died and resurrected, you would not believe it, would you?
Of course not. These claims are ridiculous. They're way out there. You would have to see some extremely good evidence before you accepted them as true.
Yes, it would take a lot to consider Vern Howell's stories.

Not because they're so fantastic, but because done Jesus, many have claimed to be just like him....

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