Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151053 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok.
Please excuse my dumbing down the argument with some of the posters here.
The morality that you use, cannot be accounted for with your professed worldview.
Now absolute morality, which we all appeal to instinctively, has to have a source.
God is that source.
I can admit that although I don't believe that to be true, it is possible that if there is a god... he could have given me this without my knowledge.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet atheists, whilst appealing to absolute moral positions, deny that absolute morality exists.
The tension then is a strange one.
Indicating contradictory beliefs.
The outward denial of absolute morality.
With the internal appeal to absolute morality.
This tension, which all atheists exhibit, clearly reveals an enmity between the two issues.
That friction, that enmity reveals something deeper, the internal war in the atheist on the issue of accepting Gods claims on them, especially moral claims.
It is these inconsistencies that reveal the larger battle is in fact taking place.
Now, not many atheists have the courage to actual admit that tension, let alone try to account for it.
Why?
I understand in a sense. We could say that killing is wrong, period! That seems absolute. To myself that does seem absolute... pretty clear and solid. God has this in his top 10 list.

I see a few possible problems... Are we obeying god? Or is it like you mentioned, instinctive?

Is it really this simple? What about in a hostage situation? I would imagine that if we are obeying god, there is no question here. Try hard to negotiate then clean up all of the bodies.

I admit I have purposely tried to leave morality alone because of how sticky the subject is but I was bothered when you tried telling me what I believe and called me a liar..... Congrats you got me to join the morality conversation! Lol.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Because they suppress that truth in unrighteousness.
How do I know that?
God, who is self attesting, and also the absolute standard of morality, has revealed it in the scripture.
The evidence for this however, is plain to see, when the atheists buttons are pressed on this issue...
All I can give you here is the possibility that although I do not believe in god, if he exists he could have given me moral instincts and either Satan or my limited intelligence has blocked the source.

I guarantee, however, that I am following a set of rules in a book i believe in.... and conveniently lie and pretend that i don't believe for the purpose of breaking those rules when i want to. This is as I mentioned before, nonsensical. If i believed... I would know that i would not be able to fool god.

I would hope you don't think we are all that stupid. ;-)

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151054 Jan 30, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it is. It isn't *conclusive* evidence of absence. The more you actually *look* for evidence don't see any, the stronger the evidence of absence.
True. If you were actually looking for evidence of God, you would've found it by now like the rest of us.

But since you're not looking, you'll never find it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151055 Jan 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you work near the Mission Inn?
It would be a great place for a splurgy lunch once in a while.
No but my mom used to. It used robe a real dump but they fixed it up good.

It's a nice place now. Ever been there?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151056 Jan 30, 2013
"used robe" should be "used to be"

DYAC!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#151057 Jan 30, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I guarantee, however, that I am following a set of rules in a book i believe in....
OK... lol... I have a typo that was not inspired by god. lol...*I am NOT following a set of rules...
Go ahead christians... poke fun. haha

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151058 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I am especially proud of my volunteer work and donations to the humanist cause. Every year I go to the Philippines and spend thousands on food,water, clothing and medicine for the needy there. After a horrific typhoon and flooding there I was there amongst others 14 hours a day handing out supplies, giving life saving injections and treatments to those who lost their home. I stood and watched as homeless children lined up easily 3 miles deep for a package of crackers sandwich fruit and bottle of water. Unwanted children who were born because the Christian ran theocracy light government makes it nearly impossible for a woman to obtain birth control. My wife is in pre-med classes and wants to practice medicine there free to help those poor children. Here in the states I collect donations for running in marathons with the money going to children's charities and cancer or HIV awareness programs.
I have seen first hand time and time again the damage and heart breaking situations brought on by theists. The same theists who come crawling to us to help fix their mess! Oh but while we are fixing it are we thanked? Nope. We barely get the figurative broom in hand and they are shrieking at us for not believing in their imaginary friend.
Honor? I guess it is a relative term. The dozen of urban low income students I assist for free with their biology and pharmaceutical homework at two different colleges locally would probably say good ole KJ is an alright dude.
Now if coming on topix and giving the theists a little taste of backbone, the theists who try to intimidate and silence non believers because they think we should all be meek and humble and tolerate their abuse and repeated logical fallacies makes me vile, Without reason, Disrespectful, In someone's opinion? So be it, hmmm I will chuckle about how vile And disrespectful I am Friday at U of L for the 6 hours I am assisting the students there as a volunteer. Or perhaps this summer as I am passing out thousands of dollars worth of free medicine and other essentials trying to save some more homeless from dying. Yes I was walking by a group of people there and they were huddled together praying loudly and crying. I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water and rushing her to the hospital they stood there holding hands and praying! I grabbed my cell phone and called for an ambulance and started trying to get her to drink. Slowly she sipped the water as the praying continued. The ambulance came after almost an hour and reluctantly took her to the hospital, the paramedic said she was good as dead and best leave it in the hands of Jesus same thing the crowd thought. She died 18 hours later. They didn't even know her name and couldn't figure it out.
I guess I'll somehow deal with being called disrespectful.
<quoted text>
When I read this my first thought was, you gotta be sh*ting me.

I have heard one or two wild tales in my life but I’ll be damn if this one doesn’t beat all I have ever heard.

The problem I see with this post?

A benevolent person who would go across the globe to help people in dire need would act benevolent. The Philippines is made up by a majority Christians. No hate filled belligerent atheist is going to do that for Christians.

Of course like many post we can take it or leave it. No one says we’re forced to believe it. Going to keep this one in my achieves. And repost it from time to time so people can judge for themselves the credibility of “Givemeliberty.”

Point being no one and I do mean no one with that much hate and snarling criticism is that benevolent. Only an naïve mindless idiot would believe it.

“Givemeliberty,” who in fu** do you think your kidding?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#151059 Jan 30, 2013
ThePlayfulDragon wrote:
<quoted text>
"The absence of Evidence is not evidence of absence" "science" has already proven that alternative dimensions exist. Is it entirely un plausible that another group of entities perhaps live in these other dimensions? Perhaps our dimensions sometimes phase together very briefly and we see the remnants of another time and reality. We could see ourselves 10 years from now and then they could disappear in an instant. Paranormal things can be easily explained through science. Science is theory, I just gave you a theory, therefore it is Science. Don't believe in anything, always try to be open minded about everything. Belief is simply a tool used by those that can't think for themselves. Atheism, Christianity, Catholicism, They all rely on belief. Even Science is a belief system because it relies on it's one fundamental rule. "Everything can be understood and explained", unfortunately, everything cannot be explained and understood because new things are created every single second through evolution and environmental/geographical changes. There isn't enough time to study, understand and explain everything. Therefore Science is just the belief that everything can be, Atheism is the belief that there are no Gods, Christianity is the belief that Jesus died for their sins, whilst thousands of people stood by and let him get killed.. Yeah God sure wants to forget your sins when you let a Saint die! The fact is, If Gods do infact exist. They are not what people say they are, they are infact Aliens. From another world, time, place, existence. Belief is a flawed concept that all Humans embrace from a very young age. It is not "Human nature" it is taught to you by moronic parents, religious fanatics, schools. To be truly open minded you have to reject all of your preconceptions and embrace everything that there is to "know". After embracing everything around you, you have to then purge yourself of all the useless bullshit. Someone elses "opinion" for example, unless it uses correct logic and isn't based on their emotional disposition. None of you that are going to reply to this post will understand what true open mindedness is, None of you will ever achieve it and I frankly don't care. You're doomed by your own self righteous upbringing that you'll never change. It is not impossible to change this, you're just raised this way and then are too confident that it is "you". The people that understand the Truth beyond Truth, wont bother replying to this, they'll simply nod and then continue to lurk and laugh at the inane religious debates. Religion is made by man, it is a belief system. God has nothing to do with what Man makes, or what man claim. How can we win, when fools can be Kings.(8)~
whatever drugs they gave you

just say NO next time LOL

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#151060 Jan 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No but my mom used to. It used robe a real dump but they fixed it up good.
It's a nice place now. Ever been there?
Stayed at the Mission Inn, during Xmas season with all the beautiful lights. I had an incredible room, it's on the rooftop level, freestanding with a cupola roof. I ate in the bar-lounge area. You'd never know you were in Riverside, it could be New York or San Francisco or Europe.(No offense.) Hated to leave the next day....

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151061 Jan 30, 2013
Grampa Simpson seniles again.

Ever figure out what a deist is?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like you want to be a missionary when you grow up.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151062 Jan 30, 2013
If it makes you feel better have at it. My photo albums and friend lists on Facebook have a lot of great memories.

:)
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Add legend in own mind.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151063 Jan 30, 2013
No.

As usual you are wrong.

First you must demonstrate there is a god.
Then you demonstrate he is a moral god.
Then you must demonstrate he gave said morals to us.

You can't even accomplish step one and you refuse to speak about your god's morality when it is brought up thus you must not even believe it yourself.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case, how do you account for absolute morality?
God has supplied that, as can be evidenced in the fact that all mankind recognises it.
But how do you account for it, when you deny God?
Where does it come from?
bohart

Newport, TN

#151064 Jan 30, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it is. It isn't *conclusive* evidence of absence. The more you actually *look* for evidence don't see any, the stronger the evidence of absence.
Unless of course your looking for evidence of abiogenesis, then ,well we've only been looking for several decades, and though we have zero evidence, we're making progress ,right?

Hypocrite

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151065 Jan 30, 2013
Why do I need to argue? What has your side presented other than logical fallacies and purposely changing the definitions of words to make them fit?

Until that happens your lot can't even step up to the debate proper.

Perhaps you can stop avoiding questions asked of you at some point and actually answer them?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Still sticking to the same argument in every post you make I see:
"Christians smell and I don't like them!"
You need to learn to think logically and argue your position.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151066 Jan 30, 2013
Well we can't assign morality to something we can't demonstrate so logically god is out.

And again this has been covered. Humans are a social tribal creature we long to be part of a tribe so to speak. As social creatures certain social expectations need to be met or the tribe so to speak will remove or ignore you. We can see this in hundreds of animal species who are social. Ravens take one mate for life for example and stay with them. Primates demonstrate social behaviors and even punishment for breaking those. Dolphins and elephants are known to mourn their dead especially if a young one dies.

Behaving in a socially acceptable way is nothing new and is not only seen in the human community.

So assigning this well established evolved process seen in several different species to some invisible sky wizard is foolish and a logical fallacy. We have evolved this way for survival.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You still have not grasped the point and I suspect you will not be able to, as you have been one of the least coherent atheists on here.
How do you ACCOUNT for the absolute moral standards you keep appealing to?
Where do you get that from?

Since: Mar 11

United States

#151067 Jan 30, 2013
So us non believers are a threat to humanity! What should be done about such a dangerous threat Gramps? What did Christians do to non believers in the past?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, the Romans used to regard Christians as superstitious, and mocked them much as you and others do now. Was reason enough to them to use them for their sadistic entertainment.
You are a threat to humanity.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151068 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Why do I need to argue? What has your side presented other than logical fallacies and purposely changing the definitions of words to make them fit?
Until that happens your lot can't even step up to the debate proper.
Perhaps you can stop avoiding questions asked of you at some point and actually answer them?
<quoted text>
"I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water.........." Post #150915

"I," "I," "I," "I," "I," "I," "I," "I," "I,"I," "I," "I," "I,"

"I," "I,"

You’re are so unpretentious. Such conservative modesty. Shouldn’t you be nominated for the noble peace prize for unselfishness. You could be idolized like Mother Teresa. Get the Atheist of the year award.

But nooooooo, you’re just satisfied with a "good ole KJ is an alright dude." Modesty, integrity and unrelenting sacrifice for the needy.

Such greatness has blessed our forum. We are honored by your presence.[tearing up, sniffle]

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151069 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
So us non believers are a threat to humanity! What should be done about such a dangerous threat Gramps? What did Christians do to non believers in the past?
<quoted text>
Wiki:

In the 20th century, Christians have been persecuted by various groups, and by atheistic states such as the USSR and North Korea. Currently (as of 2012), as estimated by the Christian missionary organization Open Doors UK, an estimated 100 million Christians face persecution, particularly in Muslim dominated countries like, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. They also face persecution in atheistic states like North Korea in which there is no religious freedom. A recent study, cited by the Vatican, reported that 75 out of every 100 people killed due to religious hatred were Christian.
socci

Cameron, MO

#151070 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
So us non believers are a threat to humanity! What should be done about such a dangerous threat Gramps? What did Christians do to non believers in the past?

Shake our heads at the ignorance?

The Catholics were the ones who burned people at the stake, including Christians who rejected the pope's authority.

• Catholic Inquisition



http://archive.org/details/CatholicInquisitio...
with ex-Catholic Priest Richard Bennett

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151071 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well we can't assign morality to something we can't demonstrate so logically god is out.
And again this has been covered. Humans are a social tribal creature we long to be part of a tribe so to speak. As social creatures certain social expectations need to be met or the tribe so to speak will remove or ignore you. We can see this in hundreds of animal species who are social. Ravens take one mate for life for example and stay with them. Primates demonstrate social behaviors and even punishment for breaking those. Dolphins and elephants are known to mourn their dead especially if a young one dies.
Behaving in a socially acceptable way is nothing new and is not only seen in the human community.
So assigning this well established evolved process seen in several different species to some invisible sky wizard is foolish and a logical fallacy. We have evolved this way for survival.
<quoted text>
So let me get this right.

In the beginning all life evolved from dead, lifeless, sterile material.

“Poof,” All by itself, then life made a crazy run on the earth.

So you believe in “Poof?”

Like magic,“poof.”

Atheist don’t believe in God but they damn sure believe in “Poof.”

“foolish and a logical fallacy”???

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151072 Jan 30, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Shake our heads at the ignorance?
The Catholics were the ones who burned people at the stake, including Christians who rejected the pope's authority.
• Catholic Inquisition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Rx8PdvOELvYXX
http://archive.org/details/CatholicInquisitio...
with ex-Catholic Priest Richard Bennett
I'm not disagreeing with your post. History is history.

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