Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 242964 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#150997 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not about evidence, it is about authority.
People do not reject God because of lack of evidence, they reject Him because they do not want to submit to His authority.
Wrong. They reject *belief* when there is insufficient proof. And there has not been sufficient proof of God to warrant belief. All you have given is arguments that are full of holes and have been recognized as full of holes for centuries.

Authority has nothing to do with belief. Evidence does. No evidence means no belief.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150998 Jan 30, 2013
Mikko wrote:
there are no absolute moral standards! all moral is relative
mtimber wrote:
So if your neighbour decides to steal your car, you are ok with that?
You have no idea how we think and feel, do you?

Obviously the relevant values are relative. Can't you think of a single example where one wouldn't mind that having his car stolen, or might even be glad for it? I happen to have had that experience. When I got married, I had two cars, and my new wife one, which we wanted to sell. Somebody stole her car from our driveway, went joy riding, and totaled it. We were OK with that.

You cling to this word "absolute" like your soul depended on it even though nobody else acknowledges the validity of your claim to the existence absolute moral values. You're arguing with yourself.

When are you going to catch up with me? I've already stipulated to the existence of a creator god twice, and even to the existence of absolute moral values if you like. You don't need to prove that there is a god to me. All you need to do with me is to prove that that god and the author of the absolute moral values is Jehovah-Jesus ... unless you're willing to concede to me that that god is not (or might not be) Jehovah-Jesus.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150999 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
No, it's because "[you] believe in God [and] don't believe that Zeus is real." If you all convert to Zeustianity and start interfering with our lives as Zeustians, we'll refocus our attention there.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I think you're lying.
Do you have a reason? Do you even need one? Common sense tells you that I'm not lying. Why would I continue to decry Christianity if it were irrelevant in the lives of unbelievers? And why would I welcome your intrusion into my life if you all became Zeustians instead?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Christianity and ONLY Christianity.
It's not personal and it's not a vendetta. But it is mostly against Christianity, although my focus is limited almost exclusively to public Christianity in America. Why would I care nearly as much about anything else to do with religion?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151000 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
Are you omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and eternal? Because you would need to be that, just to be equal with God. How you will improve on that I don't know...
Is your god real? Does it know anything? Can it do anything? Has it existed even for a moment?

Because it would need to be in order to compete with me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151001 Jan 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I couldn't find that quote, it's likely a lie.
And there you go again.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
"In God We Trust." It is the choicest compliment that has ever been paid us, and the most gratifying to our feelings. It is simple, direct, gracefully phrased: it always sounds well — In God We Trust. I don't believe it would sound any better if it were true. And in a measure it is true — half the nation trusts in Him. That half has decided it." On page 394.
Page 394?

So, does that tell you that Twain was a believer?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151002 Jan 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
Hey IANS, this reminds me of another saying. Don't cheat:

El martes, ni te cases ni te embarques.
Uh-oh.

On Tuesdays, never get married nor take a trip (or begin something)?

[I'm putting it into Google]

"On Tuesday, neither get married nor you embark."

Hello! I am getting this.

Thanks.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151003 Jan 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I think you're lying.

RiversideRedneck wrote:
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Christianity and ONLY Christianity.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Do you have a reason?
Yes, when I wrote the very next sentence....

RiversideRedneck wrote:
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Christianity and ONLY Christianity.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151004 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
The morality that you use, cannot be accounted for with your professed worldview.
Sure it can. And has been repeatedly on this thread alone.
mtimber wrote:
Now absolute morality, which we all appeal to instinctively ...
Actually, nobody here but you is doing that.
mtimber wrote:
... has to have a source. God is that source.
"God" doesn't exist. Neither so absolute morals.
mtimber wrote:
Yet atheists, whilst appealing to absolute moral positions, deny that absolute morality exists. The tension then is a strange one. Indicating contradictory beliefs. The outward denial of absolute morality.
The angst appears to be all yours.
mtimber wrote:
With the internal appeal to absolute morality.
This tension, which all atheists exhibit, clearly reveals an enmity between the two issues. That friction, that enmity reveals something deeper, the internal war in the atheist on the issue of accepting Gods claims on them, especially moral claims.
The internal war here is between you and your straw men.
mtimber wrote:
God, who is self attesting ...
Your bible is self-refuting.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151005 Jan 30, 2013
The_Box wrote:
Religion is superstition.
No, religion is religion. Superstition is superstition.

Do you need links to prove you wrong?
I have also argued about ghosts, psychics, mediums, alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, and other things that people support irrationally.
Good for you!

Ever try minding your own business?
We don't need more of any dogma. Ideas should be supported based on their soundness and the evidence that supports them.
Dogma is principle set down as incontrovertibly true.

You're opinion that religion is the same thing as superstition IS dogma...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#151006 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
Now absolute morality, which we all appeal to instinctively has to have a source. God is that source.

It aint necessarily so wrote:
"God" doesn't exist. Neither so absolute morals.
And there's IANS' dogma....

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151007 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
Why is it, do you think, that you need to rule out the particular God?
I don't. I'm merely reporting to you that I can and I have. But it's not necessary. I would ignore your bible, its god, and its church even without that due to lack of supporting evidence.
mtimber wrote:
Have you ever wondered why atheists display so much tension around the Christian God?
No. I've never noticed it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151008 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
You still have failed to account for purpose.
What does that mean? Explain why I feel it, where it came from, how it serves me, or something else? I think I can, but so what if I couldn't? Is that an argument for a god or gods? Already stipulated.

You still have failed to make a case for the creator god or gods of the universe being Jehovah-Jesus. I'm starting to think that you can't.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151009 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
I am not free to break Gods Law. Lying is not permitted by the way...
And what happens if you lie and demand forgiveness? Are you going to hell?
mtimber wrote:
That is the whole point of the gospel...
Disagree. The whole point of the entire bible is to control and exploit you.

Put on your skeptics cap and see if you can answer this from an unbeliever's perspective: why would there be a Commandment to honor the Sabbath?
mtimber wrote:
And laying down your life for someone you love, you consider "cheap"?
For the one getting the forgiveness? Yes. He doesn't even need to apologize to his victim, let alone ask for forgiveness from him.

Do you disagree? If so, on what basis?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151010 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
God is the First Cause, that is without cause. He is self attesting, which the First Cause would have to be...
Does you bible say that? You can add "first cause" to the following list:

"The word "trinity" appears nowhere in the bible. Neither does Rapture, or Second Coming, or Original Sin ...[nor] Omniscience, Omnipresence, Supernatural, Transcendence, Afterlife, Deity, Divinity, Theology, Monotheism, Missionary, Immaculate Conception, Christmas, Christianity, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Methodist, Catholic, Pope, Cardinal, Catechism, Purgatory, Penance, Transubstantiation, Excommunication, Dogma, Chastity, Unpardonable Sin, Infallibility, Inerrancy, Incarnation, Epiphany, Sermon, Eucharist, the Lord's Prayer, Good Friday, Doubting Thomas, Advent, Sunday School, Dead Sea, Golden Rule, Moral, Morality, Ethics, Patriotism, Education, Atheism, Apostasy, Conservative (Liberal is in), Capital Punishment, Monogamy, Abortion, Pornography, Homosexual, Lesbian, Fairness, Logic, Republic, Democracy, Capitalism, Funeral, Decalogue, or Bible.”- Dan Barker

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#151011 Jan 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>No, religion is religion. Superstition is superstition.

Do you need links to prove you wrong?

[QUOTE] I have also argued about ghosts, psychics, mediums, alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, and other things that people support irrationally. "

Good for you!

Ever try minding your own business?

[QUOTE] We don't need more of any dogma. Ideas should be supported based on their soundness and the evidence that supports them."

Dogma is principle set down as incontrovertibly true.

You're opinion that religion is the same thing as superstition IS dogma...
Dogma is principle set down as incontrovertibly true in the total absence of supporting evidence.

And there is plenty of evidence that supports the fact the religion is superstition.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#151012 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
It is not about evidence, it is about authority.
People do not reject God because of lack of evidence, they reject Him because they do not want to submit to His authority.
Is that right?

I have no problem with authority. I had no problem with my parents or the law. I am the product of at least two authoritarian hierarchies that I successfully navigated: the military, where I started as a private and finished with an honorable discharge, and medicine, where I started as a medical student and end up an attending physician. I am currently being instructed in bridge by an expert.I know my place in that relationship.

You're simply wrong. I rejected your god first for lack of evidence for it. Now, I can add a logical proof of its nonexistence to that.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#151013 Jan 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm a threat to humanity?

Who knew?
I know, huh?

And here I thought you were a nice guy.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Sweden

#151014 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case, how do you account for absolute morality?
God has supplied that, as can be evidenced in the fact that all mankind recognises it.
But how do you account for it, when you deny God?
Where does it come from?
There's no absolute morality

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#151015 Jan 30, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not defending the atheists because i see it in us too... but I hope you are not so blind as to not see Christians being guilty of this on here as well!
Its like watching a bunch of angry kids playing king of the hill... remember that game?
People representing faith that are continuously abusive come and go. They’re never long term residences on this channel.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Sweden

#151016 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So if your neighbour decides to steal your car, you are ok with that?
i would wonder where i got a car from

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