Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#150904 Jan 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Wikipedia:
agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
In theory, agnosticism is compatible with all but the most dogmatic of religious faiths, but in practice most agnostics are perceived as godless. Agnostics believe that while there is insufficient evidence to prove that there is a god, believing that there is not a god also requires a leap of faith (similar to any religious conviction) that lacks sufficient evidence. Simply put, agnosticism merely asserts that we lack the knowledge to determine whether or not God exists - in a sense, it differs from more explicit atheism by being a position based on a lack of knowledge, rather than a lack of belief. True agnostics would actually not fit on a hypothetical scale between theism and atheism as they would say the argument is unanswerable and could result in anything, almost like SchrŲdinger's cat but where the box can never be opened.

Most agnostics, however, can additionally be categorised depending on how their beliefs work out in practice, whether they're more atheistic or theistic. Agnostics may live and act as if there is no God and that no religion is correct, but shy away from the title "atheist" because of the expression of certainty implied. On the other hand, someone may consider themselves spiritual but not religious, or perhaps even nominally follow a religion, but identify as an agnostic in order to convey an honest doubt about the reality of it all.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Agnosticism

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#150905 Jan 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Wikipedia:
agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
Agnostic atheism holds that insufficient evidence exists to disprove a god. Agnostic atheists lean towards atheism as a sound null hypothesis, particularly in practice, but acknowledge that they could be wrong. The difference between atheism and agnostic atheism is subtle and may not be always be discernible, though agnostic atheists are generally more tolerant of the religious than more convinced atheists.

The distinction between agnostic atheism and atheism is further blurred if athiests are pressed for specifics about their beliefs. Okay, fine... lack of beliefs. It's clear that most, if not all, atheists are in fact agnostic atheists ó as rational-thinking people would certainly stop being atheists if they encounter evidence of God's existence that was sufficient for them. There is a prevalence of fundamentalist theists, but it is far rarer, if not impossible, to find fundamentalist atheists who would stick to their beliefs in the face of sufficient evidence.[1] Thus, if accepting the belief "there probably is no God; I'll act as if there's no God, but will change my mind if necessary" it's really just a matter of personal preference whether to identify as an "agnostic atheist" or just plain simple "atheist."
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Agnosticism

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#150906 Jan 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Wikipedia:
agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
There is also agnostic theism, which maintains a belief in god, but acknowledges uncertainty regarding the characteristics of that god. Some theist agnostics are also Deist, believing that God created the universe but is irrelevant to the workings of it (essentially, they assert that we may or may not know whether God exists but it matters not anyway because of God's role to play, or lack thereof, in universal affairs). Believing agnostics often identify themselves as fideists, a term coined by Martin Gardner (a theist himself) for people who choose to believe in God because it comforts them and not for intellectual reasons.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Agnosticism

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#150907 Jan 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Wikipedia:
agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
Like pretty much every other philosophical definition ever invented, agnosticism has also been split into so-called "weak" and "strong" positions.

[edit] Strong agnosticismGoing by several titles, including "strong," "hard," "closed" and "permanent," strong agnosticism states that there is no way to answer the question "does God exist?" and further that that, there never will be. It's kind of ironic that something developed to avoid a faith position would state such a thing as a clarifying remark, as should it turn out to be wrong there would have to be some serious goalpost moving to be done! This is similar the belief held by most people who think science should keep it's filthy nose out of religious matters.

[edit] Weak agnosticismThat strong agnosticism also goes by the name "permanent" this should be a clue as to what the weak form is; that is, in principle, the question of God's existence is solvable and evidence can be sought. While this isn't synonymous with God's existence definitely being knowable, it has an open mind as to whether we could figure it out. This is almost like being agnostic about being agnostic.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#150908 Jan 29, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
A Jewis/Dutch philosopher.
I had him confused with Spicoli.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#150909 Jan 29, 2013
mtimber wrote:
I have demonstrated it.
The Bible clearly shows that you are lying on this matter.
And as the Bible has shown it can be trusted, then I see no reason to take your word over the truths it clearly reveals.
You do know of God, but you suppress that truth so that you can continue in sin.
You say you don't lie, as if there is an absolute moral value you wish to ascribe to yourself.
Why would you, as an atheist be concerned about that?
You see, you claim to live by atheistic principles of morality, but then you appeal to Christian principles of morality as the defining standard of your character.
Which reveals, that yes, you do know God, but you deny Him as it suits your purpose to...
<quoted text>
The point is not whether you agree with my argument, but rather whether you understand why I have made it.
The truth of this argument can also be tested...
Do you believe that atheists live a life of killing, rape, lies, etc...?

Do I understand what you are asserting?

We really do believe in god because we are moral... but we pretend we don't believe so we can sin..........

I would love if you show me what i missed here because this sounds ridiculous.

I feel like a real world example of this would be like i am in a room with a police officer... and i want to steal a woman's purse... so although i see the cop staring at me. I pretend he is not there so i can steal the purse. I am also pretending jail doesn't exist because i don't want to go there?

Pardon the strange example. I hope i misunderstood.

I myself haven't made any claims of where i get my morals. That is your debate with others on here.

Your 'presupposition' that i am a liar is what bothers me.
How does the Bible 'clearly' show that i am lying?

I hope the answer doesn't express bigotry.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#150910 Jan 29, 2013
Dude!

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#150911 Jan 29, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I had him confused with Spicoli.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =mf1C2vxZu1wXX
LMAO!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#150912 Jan 29, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
Iím not sure why this site is a magnet to personality disorders but there is plenty to go around. Itís important we understand the caliber of people we are dealing with and understand this is something we as individuals canít help them fix.
These people heavily represent the ranks of the Atheist on this site. Itís pretty easy to spot them. Theyíre the ones who are spiteful and chronically disrespectful. Why are there so many Atheist with this disorder?
Iím well aware there are some very well adjusted Atheist who are not anti-social but just the opposite. I think Mary Madeline Murray O'Hare had this disorder but other famous Atheist not so much.
{Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and in other areas of their life, such as work or school}.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic...
I'm not defending the atheists because i see it in us too... but I hope you are not so blind as to not see Christians being guilty of this on here as well!

Its like watching a bunch of angry kids playing king of the hill... remember that game?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#150913 Jan 29, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, let us just say you are a chemical accident.
What purpose is there in you being a chemical accident?
You are still misusing words in an attempt to make the scientific description sound worse than it is. Until you stop that, you are nothing but a troll trying to sell snake oil.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#150915 Jan 29, 2013
I am especially proud of my volunteer work and donations to the humanist cause. Every year I go to the Philippines and spend thousands on food,water, clothing and medicine for the needy there. After a horrific typhoon and flooding there I was there amongst others 14 hours a day handing out supplies, giving life saving injections and treatments to those who lost their home. I stood and watched as homeless children lined up easily 3 miles deep for a package of crackers sandwich fruit and bottle of water. Unwanted children who were born because the Christian ran theocracy light government makes it nearly impossible for a woman to obtain birth control. My wife is in pre-med classes and wants to practice medicine there free to help those poor children. Here in the states I collect donations for running in marathons with the money going to children's charities and cancer or HIV awareness programs.

I have seen first hand time and time again the damage and heart breaking situations brought on by theists. The same theists who come crawling to us to help fix their mess! Oh but while we are fixing it are we thanked? Nope. We barely get the figurative broom in hand and they are shrieking at us for not believing in their imaginary friend.

Honor? I guess it is a relative term. The dozen of urban low income students I assist for free with their biology and pharmaceutical homework at two different colleges locally would probably say good ole KJ is an alright dude.

Now if coming on topix and giving the theists a little taste of backbone, the theists who try to intimidate and silence non believers because they think we should all be meek and humble and tolerate their abuse and repeated logical fallacies makes me vile, Without reason, Disrespectful, In someone's opinion? So be it, hmmm I will chuckle about how vile And disrespectful I am Friday at U of L for the 6 hours I am assisting the students there as a volunteer. Or perhaps this summer as I am passing out thousands of dollars worth of free medicine and other essentials trying to save some more homeless from dying. Yes I was walking by a group of people there and they were huddled together praying loudly and crying. I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water and rushing her to the hospital they stood there holding hands and praying! I grabbed my cell phone and called for an ambulance and started trying to get her to drink. Slowly she sipped the water as the praying continued. The ambulance came after almost an hour and reluctantly took her to the hospital, the paramedic said she was good as dead and best leave it in the hands of Jesus same thing the crowd thought. She died 18 hours later. They didn't even know her name and couldn't figure it out.

I guess I'll somehow deal with being called disrespectful.
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You Sir are vile and disrespectful , do you have any honor? or Are you in fact devoid of reason?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#150916 Jan 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't want to lick it. Trust me.
That is the closest you could get to doing so.
Oh look another worthless creationist post with no proof of god in it.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#150917 Jan 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand the bill of goods you bought into.
The picture you are making your theoretical "models" from doesn't exist anymore. Your conclusions are nothing but a math puzzle based upon erroneous observations and interpretations.
There is a HUGE^4034 difference between the universe starting off as a zero volume or preexisting and morphing real sudden like, quicker than a poof.
Come back to earth. It's home for the time being.
...and therefore god....

That is ultimately your criticism isn't it? It's not like you can actually critique science can you? Because that would require some intelligence / understanding on your part.

Until then you're happy to throw stones at a wall and watch them bounce back and hit you in the face.

At the end of the day you have no proof of god and are attempting to lie about god to people who are smarter and more intelligent than you.

Atheists converted: 0.

I suggest you find another forum to troll, creationist loser.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150918 Jan 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You seem to be stuck on this anti-Jehovah kick, equating any belief in a supernatural with a belief in Bible God as you perceive it.
Most of us don't really care about your belief in the supernatural per se, only how it informs your behaviors that affect the rest of us. And there is only one religious group responsible for most or all of the harm of religion in the West: the Christians, which means that there is really only one god worth discussing.

If your god isn't Jehovah-Jesus, unless you are supporting the Christians church and its agenda, your beliefs are pretty irrelevant to unbelievers.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150919 Jan 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
I see the transfers of energy and interactions from a detached view.
Detached is right.

Do you know why people wear tinfoil hats? To prevent energy transfers in and out of their brains. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat :

"A tin foil hat is a piece of headgear made from one or more sheets of aluminium foil or similar material ... One may wear the hat in the belief that it shields the brain from electromagnetic fields, to prevent mind control and/or mind reading, or to limit the transmission of voices directly into the brain."

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#150920 Jan 30, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I am especially proud of my volunteer work and donations to the humanist cause. Every year I go to the Philippines and spend thousands on food,water, clothing and medicine for the needy there. After a horrific typhoon and flooding there I was there amongst others 14 hours a day handing out supplies, giving life saving injections and treatments to those who lost their home. I stood and watched as homeless children lined up easily 3 miles deep for a package of crackers sandwich fruit and bottle of water. Unwanted children who were born because the Christian ran theocracy light government makes it nearly impossible for a woman to obtain birth control. My wife is in pre-med classes and wants to practice medicine there free to help those poor children. Here in the states I collect donations for running in marathons with the money going to children's charities and cancer or HIV awareness programs.
I have seen first hand time and time again the damage and heart breaking situations brought on by theists. The same theists who come crawling to us to help fix their mess! Oh but while we are fixing it are we thanked? Nope. We barely get the figurative broom in hand and they are shrieking at us for not believing in their imaginary friend.
Honor? I guess it is a relative term. The dozen of urban low income students I assist for free with their biology and pharmaceutical homework at two different colleges locally would probably say good ole KJ is an alright dude.
Now if coming on topix and giving the theists a little taste of backbone, the theists who try to intimidate and silence non believers because they think we should all be meek and humble and tolerate their abuse and repeated logical fallacies makes me vile, Without reason, Disrespectful, In someone's opinion? So be it, hmmm I will chuckle about how vile And disrespectful I am Friday at U of L for the 6 hours I am assisting the students there as a volunteer. Or perhaps this summer as I am passing out thousands of dollars worth of free medicine and other essentials trying to save some more homeless from dying. Yes I was walking by a group of people there and they were huddled together praying loudly and crying. I looked in and a young girl was on the ground dying of dehydration. Instead of getting her water and rushing her to the hospital they stood there holding hands and praying! I grabbed my cell phone and called for an ambulance and started trying to get her to drink. Slowly she sipped the water as the praying continued. The ambulance came after almost an hour and reluctantly took her to the hospital, the paramedic said she was good as dead and best leave it in the hands of Jesus same thing the crowd thought. She died 18 hours later. They didn't even know her name and couldn't figure it out.
I guess I'll somehow deal with being called disrespectful.
<quoted text>
You sound like you want to be a missionary when you grow up.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#150921 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Detached is right.
Do you know why people wear tinfoil hats? To prevent energy transfers in and out of their brains. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat :
"A tin foil hat is a piece of headgear made from one or more sheets of aluminium foil or similar material ... One may wear the hat in the belief that it shields the brain from electromagnetic fields, to prevent mind control and/or mind reading, or to limit the transmission of voices directly into the brain."
:-)

IANS, you are the one that believes we got poofed into existence. I believe we got constructed.

Don't forget that ground wire connection to your hat.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#150922 Jan 30, 2013

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#150923 Jan 30, 2013
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUP...

I loved New Orleans. Used to live there.

After 9/11 a friend of mine had one of those heart tests where they inject a little radioactive stuff in you. He got back and stopped at a coffee shop in Uptown. Parked his car and started to walk inside. This place has an actual parking area off the street. Two Customs guys jumped out of a car at the intersection behind him. He triggered radiation sensors they had in their vehicle.

Go to New Orleans and Mardi Gras. Have fun. Just don't step on the sidewalk with a drink in a glass. Plastic go cups only.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150924 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
If you are an agnostic, how can you then deny the possibility of God? That is contradictory.
No it's not. As long as you don't affirm or deny the possibility of a god or gods, you are agnostic. Agnostics like me do deny "God."

Who can say that no god of any description is possible unless the idea is logically impossible? I can't.

However unlikely, the idea of a god isn't logically impossible, therefore it is possible by default. It seems to me that we must all admit to a mustard seed of agnosticism.

But many named gods can be ruled out such as the one you call "God" ... Jehovah-Jesus. Doing so, however, doesn't make one no longer agnostic. It can't.

Why aren't you asking us what we believe and what we call ourselves rather than telling us? You need to understand what the terms mean to unbelievers, and how we use them, unless it is your intention to try to impose a preferred definition upon us.

If you are, I would suggest you think it through. There's only one outcome that I've ever seen come to pass whenever that happens.

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