Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258049 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#150787 Jan 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
So order out of a sudden expansion is just about improbable?
The Big Bang rubbleized then fell back into an ordered universe, did it not?
No. The universe today is in a higher entropy state than it was 10 billion years ago. No rubber.
Thinking

Ashford, UK

#150788 Jan 29, 2013
Entropy is an expression of disorder or randomness.
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is that the identification of entropy with disorder is wrong. There are many situations where entropy drives the formation of *more* order. For example, a mixture of oil and water would be disordered and the situation where they are separated would be more ordered, but entropy drives that separation.
It is more accurate to say that entropy is a measure of the amount of 'unusable' energy, although even this is not quite correct. There is a temperature dependence in entropy that is not considered in that intuition.
Finally, entropy is NOT the number of ways things can be disordered. The closest version is that entropy is related to the number of accessible quantum states.
This, by the way, is one reason that the initial stages of the Big bang were *low* entropy: the number of available quantum states was low at that point.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#150789 Jan 29, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Flowery speech without substance is like gift wrap on a dog turd.
You would be better served staying away from sharp objects Gramps and return to your magnets and strings.
<quoted text>
That gift wrapping makes your substance more socially acceptable. Some idiot might even attempt to unwrap you thinking a prize is inside.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#150790 Jan 29, 2013
Do you have a filter for god other than your imagination Gramps?
Dave Nelson wrote:
A white light shines. White as in all colors and wavelengths of the EM spectrum.
Put a filter in front and you bias it so you see a predominate color. Alternatively, your physical construction only allows certain wavelengths to register. This varies to a degree within humans. You can only see what you can see.
The universe is light.
Topix atheists are living in the dark.
Thinking

Ashford, UK

#150791 Jan 29, 2013
This increase in entropy is explained nicely by Prof Brian Cox here:

www.youtube.com/watch...
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No. The universe today is in a higher entropy state than it was 10 billion years ago. No rubber.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#150792 Jan 29, 2013
I could use your granddaughter's mouth as gift wrapping for my boner who is a god, providing she is over 18 and attractive. He is demanding some worship today and hey she could be the lucky believer to receive my holy sperm-it!

Now stay away from sharp objects Gramps, your fingers can't take much more.

You are very welcome :)
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
That gift wrapping makes your substance more socially acceptable. Some idiot might even attempt to unwrap you thinking a prize is inside.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#150793 Jan 29, 2013
This is highly amusing.

"Informed" individuals reinterpreting the Big Bang theory. Then throwing in fancy words and concepts that sound good.

The Big Bang theory is a region of what we call space, or a small particle, got very hot and agitated and went flying to pieces. It was assumedly a monolithic substance or collection of energy. After going to pieces and expanding the energy, which they refer to as heat, got dissipated and condensed into droplets, which became matter. Gravity caused motion, bringing them together, which set the stage for the other forces to be created.

A drop of water getting zapped and exploding, then cooling down, but without the pre-existing granularity of its molecular composition. This condensation of the original material or energy created the granularity we have now, and which developed into our present physical world. Such is assumed, anyhow.

A well known process in physics, but dressed up in fancy and obscure words to make the wannabe priests look smart.

That simple. All wrapped up in a mustard seed.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#150794 Jan 29, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
Mark Twain an Atheist?
Yes I know Atheist make that claim.
Research tells a much different story. He wasn’t fond of religion but did acknowledge he believed in God. He didn’t seem to be steadfast in his belief but moved back and forth on the issue at different times in his life.
He did attend church several times and helped his brother build a church. However there wasn’t a solid comment from him as would be in others.
That’s why I used his quote because it fit Atheist to a Tee. He was a very talented author and happened to be raised up about two hours from where I live.
It makes me no difference if you claim him or not.
A few Twain quotes:

Man is a marvelous curiosity … he thinks he is the Creator's pet … he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea.

There are those who scoff at the school boy, calling him frivolous and shallow. Yet it was the schoolboy who said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

One of the proofs of the immortality of the soul is that myriads have believed in it. They have also believed the world was flat.

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.

If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.

Nothing agrees with me. If I drink coffee, it gives me dyspepsia; if I drink wine, it gives me the gout; if I go to church, it gives me dysentery.

Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#150795 Jan 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
A white light shines. White as in all colors and wavelengths of the EM spectrum.
Put a filter in front and you bias it so you see a predominate color. Alternatively, your physical construction only allows certain wavelengths to register. This varies to a degree within humans. You can only see what you can see.
The universe is light.
Topix atheists are living in the dark.
Well that was random...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150796 Jan 29, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
More agnostic than true atheist, My purpose in life is to survive and learn. Far less goals than when I was younger, you do not have to be religious to have goals and purpose.
If you are an agnostic, how can you then deny the possibility of God?

That is contradictory.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150797 Jan 29, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how you have to invent a "wrongness" for you to make it sound bad. It's a chemical reaction gone right, actually, because it's one of the few self sustaining chemical reactions, which is why life is one of the most unique.
We create our purpose, you just choose to copy someone's purpose yourself because you are too lazy to make one.
Ok, let us just say you are a chemical accident.

What purpose is there in you being a chemical accident?

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#150798 Jan 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, the lack of belief is agnosticism. It is a passive thing. Atheism is a denial, which is not passive, but definitive.

If you get on here prosyletizing atheism, then you have a belief. Which is most definitive.
I might add this.

Atheist sure have a hard time keeping your believes straight.
Yet alone just the definition of the word atheist.

Merriam - Webster

athe·ist\ˈā-thē-ist\
noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

"who believes". That's a positive assertion. Seeing as there is no proof of your belief It's FAITH.

Faith:
"Synonyms: devotion, piety, religion"

Ah yes Atheism is a Religion.

Have a nice day and don't forget to go to church.

Posted else where by derek4

From: The Columbus Dispatch:

February 4, 2011

Church, without God

“Stan Bradley likes Bible stories, admires Martin Luther and uses expressions such as 'heavens, no.'

The Lithopolis man is president of a local congregation and rarely misses a Sunday service. Occasionally, he goes to his wife's church instead.

For these and other reasons, Bradley considers himself religious.”

He is also an atheist.

continued:

“Like Bradley, some atheists participate in organized religion for its social and psychological benefits.”

continued:

“Churches are great places to find friends, support and youth education, so nonbelievers and believers alike join congregations to fill those needs, he said.

He has spoken to elderly and sick people who can no longer go to church and they say they most miss the feeling of community.

Recent research from Harvard University and the University of Wisconsin backs him up. It found that religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people, not because of belief but because of the friendships found at church.”
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/faith...

“religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people”[I have said this all along, and my posts are still on the board to confirm it. Now you hear it straight from the atheist, lol.]

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150799 Jan 29, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no requirement to tell the truth in your worldview. And all you need after you lie is demand forgiveness. It's automatic, like from a vending machine. Just say a prayer, Claire. And get yourself saved, Dave. That's how you save your ass, Chas. And get into heaven, Kevin.
That is not correct.

I am bound by Gods absolute moral law.

That I can seek forgiveness, is not the same as requiring that I break Gods law, which seems to be what you are arguing.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150800 Jan 29, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. But there are many things about quantum mechanics that differ from classical mechanics and one of them is the lack of causes. Since quantum mechanics *does* agree with *all* available evidence, we should give some credence to its conclusions. Among these conclusions are that objects do not have well defined properties outside of observation and that the classical notion of causality does not apply to quantum events.
Now,*you* are, once again, the one claiming that we cannot draw conclusions based on the observations we have done. Among the conclusions is the simple fact that a muon just before a decay is *exactly* the same as a muon at any other time. So the 'cause' of the decay is not internal to the muon. But there is also nothing *outside* interacting, so there is no cause outside either.
<quoted text>
Please be more detailed here. Which elements do you think it is affected by?
<quoted text>
One the contrary, we *can* prove the earth is not flat via observation. Muons have been studies for the last 50+ years and their properties are quite well known.
<quoted text>
You may suggest it, but you are wrong. I often wish the universe were more deterministic and had more causality than it does. but the actual evidence is that classical notions of causality are simply wrong. And yes, the tests actually do test *all* possible causal theories.
I think you are equivocating a lack of an account for a cause, with a lack of a cause...

Hence your argument then permits you to deny causality.

Which of course means denying the process of logic itself.

Meaning you have argued that a lack of logic is logical.

Which is illogical.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#150801 Jan 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, anyone?
"If the entire universe is an isolated system, then, according to the second law of thermodynamics, the energy in the universe available for useful work has always been decreasing. However, as one goes back in time, the energy available for work would eventually exceed the total energy in the universe, which, according to the first law of thermodynamics, remains constant. This is an impossible condition, implying the universe had a beginning.a
A further consequence of the second law is that soon after the universe began, it was more organized and complex than it is today—not in a highly disorganized and random state as assumed by evolutionists and proponents of the big bang theory."

“My Brother Lives”

Since: Jan 13

Nazareth

#150802 Jan 29, 2013
My Brother came into the world to save the world.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150803 Jan 29, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> No, actually that is what your mythic deity/creation story is premised upon. The two ultimate creations in that story were flawed, an accident. They were intended to be perfect. The mythic deity failed in its intent and "design".
<quoted text> I'm here, now, living and an asset to this world, that's purpose enough. I don't need, nor do I desire to think a deity for which there is no unbiased evidence created the universe and all in it.
<quoted text> Again, that's the basis of your mythic deity story, in which the original two humans created were flawed, accidents, a planned perfection created by your deity, a failure. Imperfect.
<quoted text> Certainly.
How does discussing the bible and its perceived, on your part, errors, give you a reason to argue you have purpose?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#150804 Jan 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Entropy is an expression of disorder or randomness.
<quoted text>
Only in the very first approximation. It is actually a description of the available quantum states. That is its *statistical mechanics* definition.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150805 Jan 29, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they are not even close to being the same. The term 'created' pee-supposes an intelligence working. To be caused does not make that assumption.
<quoted text>
That you are slipping relevant assumptions into your argument without justifying the new assumptions.
<quoted text>
Whao there! Exactly which 'transcendental laws' do you think govern intelligence that are any different than the laws of physics?
<quoted text>
All three sentences here are unjustified claims. Why do absolutes need an absolute cause?(and what does it mean to be an absolute cause?) And why does an absolute cause have all the properties associated with deities?
You are making many assertions without any justification. You haven't even defined what it means to be 'caused' yet, let alone what it means to be 'absolute'. For that matter, you haven't defined the term 'God' either.
The very principle of cause and effect demands absolutes have a cause...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#150806 Jan 29, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that I am interested in truth and that lying makes it much more difficult to determine truth. Your justification of God as a standard of morality is also circular, since give no reason to think there is such a thing and you justify its existence via the existence of God.
Come on, I know you are better than that. You can think a bit more about your assumptions and where they might be wrong. it's a healthy exercise.
The existence of absolute moral standards, as evidenced by everyone appealing to them, even if they deny them when it suits, requires an explanation.

That God has revealed them to us, personally, in time, is the evidence required...

Of course you will deny both these facts, but that does not stop them being true...

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