Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#150604
Jan 28, 2013
 
solopassage wrote:
<quoted text>What would you know of the teachings of Jesus, he wrote nothing himself. You only know how others interpret his teachings.

Jesus corrected the Jewish doctrines of the Old Testament by introducing a new system of ethics, which was disbelieved by the Jews. Jesus and Jews were not exactly best buds. Why do you think he never taught in synagogues? The first time he tried the "Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him." Further, why would a Jewish God send his only begotten son to reform the Jewish hierarchy of that day? Yet this is exactly what transpired! The New Testament is the Old Testament reformed.
Why did the OT need to be reformed?

God screwed it up the first time?

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

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#150605
Jan 28, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
Sue him.
<quoted text>
Did you here about the Japanese - Jewish restaurant, it was called Sosueme.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#150606
Jan 28, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>Your user name is interesting. Brings up an important aspect of life as a human being.

Going through life alone is something no one wants to do. People have a need for companionship.

You will never get rid of a Jesus for that reason.
Yes.

For people who can't maintain real companionship, an imaginary companion will suffice.

http://m.youtube.com/watch...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150607
Jan 28, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
The Bible clearly shows that you are lying on this matter.
Your bible can't demonstrate anything but words it contains, which is proof of nothing except that the bible contains them.
mtimber wrote:
And as the Bible has shown it can be trusted ...
Au contraire. Your bible is riddled with error and contradiction.
mtimber wrote:
you appeal to Christian principles of morality as the defining standard of your character.
What moral principles are original to Christianity? "Thou shalt not steal"? You stole that from the Jews.

Incidentally, whenever Christians pick and choose which commandments of their bible to accept and which to reject, they are applying an external standard to your so-called absolute biblical morality to do it.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

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#150608
Jan 28, 2013
 
BBC comedy from the 1970s- how Daleks make a curry:

www.youtube.com/watch...
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you here about the Japanese - Jewish restaurant, it was called Sosueme.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#150609
Jan 28, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Kinky!
<quoted text>
Lola - kinks
I met her in a club down in old Soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola
Coca-Cola]
C-O-L-A cola
She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her her name and in a DARK BROWN voice she said Lola
L-O-L-A Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'm not the world's most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said little boy won't you come home with me
Well I'm not the world's most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes well I almost fell for my Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Well I looked at her and she at me
Well that's the way that I want it to stay
And I'll always want it to be that way for my Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'd left home just a week before
And I'd never ever kissed a woman before
But Lola smiled and took me by the hand
And said little boy I'm gonna make you a man
Well I'm not the world's most masculine man
But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
And so is Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150610
Jan 28, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
Obviously, as a Christian, I can explain why you have value and why there is a purpose to your life.
How does a god - or belief in a god - give a life more purpose than it wouldn't otherwise have?

Are you implying that my purpose is to worship it? That's not my purpose - it's the deity's.

As a Christian, your life is devalued and relatively purposeless. In the eyes of your god, you are nothing but a praising machine.

Your purpose - the reason you believe that you were created - is to die and move on to a life of praising some narcissistic black hole of need. In the meantime, you consider the very flesh that you are encased in an your enemy in which you are trapped while awaiting release. You see the world as decadent, and anticipate leaving it, too.

No thanks.

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

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#150611
Jan 28, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
Cantilever, truss, suspension, beam or other?
<quoted text>
I don't know. I'm not an architect, I'm a musician.

I play the violin. The acoustics were nice. You tell me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150612
Jan 28, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Sorry, but the physics community has the final word on physics, not the Christian community, and the overwhelming majority say that quantum indeterminacy is a fact.
mtimber wrote:
You keep making a claim that the majority of physicists vocally support you. Can you point me to the evidence for that please? Sounds to me, that you are making a claim that you cannot support.
"Quantum indeterminacy is the apparent necessary incompleteness in the description of a physical system, that has become one of the characteristics of the standard description of quantum physics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterm...

Can you understand that, and why it says that most quantum physicists accept the notion that subatomic events occur uncaused?
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

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#150613
Jan 28, 2013
 
It would be nice to think suspension because of the strength of strings.

Violinists have lovely f holes.
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. I'm not an architect, I'm a musician.
I play the violin. The acoustics were nice. You tell me.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#150614
Jan 28, 2013
 
This supposed sister, if we want to entertain she didn't just steal some random story for attention, died decades before he was born. Even the parents picked up the pieces and moved on had more kids and worked through it as best they can.

This was a tragic family story to her nothing more if it's true and actually her sister it still happened several years before she was even born so what bereavement? It's not like they had ever spent time together.

And to go on public forums and bring up this long dead family member who you never met is well.... Nutty.
Thinking wrote:
She's annoyingly thick but I don't want her to be unhappy.
I've helped neighbours through bereavement, the believers cope as badly as the rest of us. Hopefully she'll find solace some day.
<quoted text>

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

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#150615
Jan 28, 2013
 
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Lola - kinks
I met her in a club down in old Soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola
Coca-Cola]
C-O-L-A cola
She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her her name and in a DARK BROWN voice she said Lola
L-O-L-A Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'm not the world's most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said little boy won't you come home with me
Well I'm not the world's most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes well I almost fell for my Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Well I looked at her and she at me
Well that's the way that I want it to stay
And I'll always want it to be that way for my Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'd left home just a week before
And I'd never ever kissed a woman before
But Lola smiled and took me by the hand
And said little boy I'm gonna make you a man
Well I'm not the world's most masculine man
But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
And so is Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
That's a totally gay song.

There are newer ones.

This isn't one of them.

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

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#150616
Jan 28, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
It would be nice to think suspension because of the strength of strings.
Violinists have lovely f holes.
<quoted text>
It was concrete.

Violinists have calloused fingers.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150617
Jan 28, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
Interesting, you don't know if it was Gods, but you do know that it wasn't God?
I said "a god or, more likely, gods." I don't appreciate you continually modifying my comments.

But yes, gods in the generic cannot be completely ruled out. Yours can.
mtimber wrote:
I think you prejudice against Christianity is clearly revealed here.
What prejudice? I have come to a rational conclusion. Two plus two equals four, which is prejudice against the number five.
mtimber wrote:
1. I don't know what did it.
2. It might have been gods.
3. It definitely wasn't God.
Do you think this is "logical" reasoning?
Yes, if by "God" you mean Jehovah-Jesus, Satan, YHWH, Allah, or any other desert deity.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150618
Jan 28, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
I don't suppose he made a video of it as well?
Not to my knowledge. The First Three Minutes is a fairly short and easy read.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150619
Jan 28, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand ltimber is a student at the Eagle School of Grammar.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

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#150620
Jan 28, 2013
 
I've never seen a concrete violin before.
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
It was concrete.
Violinists have calloused fingers.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150621
Jan 28, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
Causality points to an eternal source, do you deny that?
What does that mean? Are you saying that the existence of the universe requires a god? If so, I don't think that you are justified in that assumption.

Nevertheless, I have said that I will stipulate to the existence of a god or gods for our discussion, so you can dispense with the cosmological argument with me. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

Why don't we proceed to the part of your argument where you demonstrate that that first cause is Jehovah-Jesus. Because without that, I have no reason to worship or pray to that god, nor to read your bible, nor to enter a Christian church.
mtimber wrote:
Are you saying all the atheists that argue for an eternal source are acting on blind faith?
No.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150622
Jan 28, 2013
 
The first cause argument is not applicable to the universe as an entity. The idea of causality is derived from experience with objects much smaller than universes that are contained in them. You cannot extend the inductions (generalizations) derived from studying the whole and apply them to the parts. That one is called a fallacy of composition. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_compo... :
"The fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole. For example: "This fragment of metal cannot be fractured with a hammer, therefore the machine of which it is a part cannot be fractured with a hammer."
We don't have enough information about universes to generalize about them, and there is an excellent argument against anything existing before time. Causes imply a before state and an after state. The word "before" has no meaning until T = 0+.
There is no "before time" just as there is nothing on earth south of the South Pole. The phrase is meaningless, as is the claim of a first cause preceding time.
mtimber wrote:
"You haven't seen everything, so you can't know if causality is constant."
Who did you think that you were quoting?

Do us both a favor and rebut my words, not your modified versions of them.
mtimber wrote:
Interesting how you personally however can claim the opposite: "I haven't seen everything but I do know that causality is not constant." Interesting that, don't you think?
I can't.
I didn't say that, either, so no, not very interesting. Nor very honest.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150623
Jan 28, 2013
 

Judged:

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1

1

mtimber wrote:
So lets examine your claim. You recognise that all worldviews rest on pre-suppositions, that then have to be tested.
You then set a standard that the correct worldview has to be empirically tested. Upon that basis, why would you say that "arockdidit", or "nothingexplodedetc" gives you an empirically based advantage?
I've never said that. If you are going to keep changing my words, we won't accomplish much.

My worldview - rational skepticism - is superior to yours - Christian fideism - based on the results each has produced both in my life and in the world.

Work with that. Please don't reword it and then argue with yourself again.

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