Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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bohart

Morristown, TN

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#150255
Jan 26, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I got to thinking about this a bit more. Of *course* absence of evidence is evidence of absence. It may not be *conclusive* evidence of absence, but it certainly is evidence. Furthermore, why is it not conclusive? Because you may not have looked in the correct places, or with the correct means, etc. But if you have looked extensively, and by a variety of means, then the prolonged absence of evidence *is* evidence of absence that increases in quality for each new way of looking and number of times looked.
As an example, there is a law of physics: the law of conservation of mass/energy. The absence of evidence that this law is violated after many and repeated attempts (perpetual motion machines, for example) is, in fact, evidence of absence. Given the number of ways we have looked and the strictness of the law (hence the high degree of testability), the prolonged absence of evidence of violations is very, very good evidence for that law.
So the question then becomes at what point does absence of evidence become strong evidence of absence? Well, we have to have searched in many different way and over a long period of time. We have to have searched in ways that, if the existence was true, we would have found evidence.
So, lets do this: what precise search method that is public and independently verifiable will lead to the detection of a deity? This method should give a different answer if there is no deity than if there is one (or many) and should be such than even an unbeliever will be able to observe the evidence as unambiguous evidence of existence.
If no such method exists, then the default position is the non-existence, just like it would be for Bigfoot, a supersymmetric particle, or an elephant in my room.
As an example there is a law of biogenesis, that life only comes from existing life. The absence of evidence that this law is violated after many and repeated attempts is in fact evidence of absence. Given the number of ways we have looked, and the strictness of the law,( hence the high degree of testability),the prolonged absence of evidence of violations is very,very good evidence for the law.
Thats a great arguement.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150256
Jan 26, 2013
 
Imhotep wrote:
Jesus said, or more accurately, was alleged to have said that he would return before all of his immediate associates had died. Jesus declared:

Matt 16:27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Eagle12 wrote:
There’s a inaccuracy in your statement. First you claim “all” the disciples then you give the scripture reference that says “some.” You contradicted yourself immensely.
Look again:

"before all ... had died"

"some standing here which shall not taste of death"

'Before all die' is the same as 'while some still live.'

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150257
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
I desperately want another flood but can only afford Global warming. Is it any mystery my name spelled backwards is Dog?
“Due to budget cuts, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse -- previously War, Famine, Pestilence and Death -- are now Sniffles, Hunger Pangs, Flatulence, and Ennui.”– Chris Conway

Since: Oct 12

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#150258
Jan 26, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, no, let's compartmentalize.
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
I'm good with the hip scarf and the belly dancing.
But where do I stuff the hundred dollar bills?
Nowhere if they're fake, but if they're real why can't u just stuff them in the hip scarf?

And i want it in pound notes, English money looks and feels real and it saves me the trouble of going to the bank!

Since: Oct 12

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#150259
Jan 26, 2013
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You can wear as many clothes as you want, before the dance.
How many can i wear after?

Why the hell am i even listening to u? It's my dance, my rules!

I say u can wear as many clothes as u want before my dance!!:-p

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150260
Jan 26, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
If you can determine a way to measure God, then you can determine if He's there or not.
We can test his claim that affect matter:

He promised to answer prayer.
He promised to move mountains for just a mustard seed of faith.
He promised every believer a peace that passeth all understanding
He promised them fruits of the spirit.
He promised to return soon - before the last of his audience died.

They all fail. Your god has kept none of those promises.

We can't test the promises that don't affect matter, such as the promise of an afterlife in heaven or hell, but I'm sure that you can trust that one.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#150261
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Well you have to remember he is the retard that said Catholics are not Christian but when asked what the largest Christian church is he responded The Catholic church of course!

No way does he have a high school education there is just no way.
scaritual wrote:
Lol! Sheer awesomeness! Thanks so much!:)
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca...
<quoted text>
Thanks, I've used it a few times over the past year or so.
Ar Ar thinks it was meant to be real.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#150262
Jan 26, 2013
 
And yet you live on an atheist forum that does just that.

Wow you idiots are really bad at this ya?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't even bother entertaining the idea of an IPU.
Unlike you so-called atheists, on sites like this day in & day out, discussing a God you claim to not believe in.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#150263
Jan 26, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
How many can i wear after?
Why the hell am i even listening to u? It's my dance, my rules!
I say u can wear as many clothes as u want before my dance!!:-p
Look at what clothing has done to us!

It's evil!

What ever will we do?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#150264
Jan 26, 2013
 
A link we call delusion yes Dave?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no default position. You are just creating one for yourself.
How would a tuna search for an agave plant? Agave plants don't exist for a tuna. But an agave may see a tuna and knows it exists.
As far as deities go, you have human beings that say they can feel the presence of one, or more. Lots of humans, actually. So there is a link to somewhere beyond what you can physically sense. You just ain't found it.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#150265
Jan 26, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
We can test his claim that affect matter:
He promised to answer prayer.
Which He does.
He promised to move mountains for just a mustard seed of faith.
Figure of speech, bro.
He promised every believer a peace that passeth all understanding


Intellectual dishonesty.

It's "peace of God which passeth all understanding", which comes from trusting God.
He promised them fruits of the spirit.


"The fruit of the Spirit" is the moral character developed by the power of the Spirit, which we have.
He promised to return soon - before the last of his audience died.
His audience is not dead, there's about 2.2 billion if us right now.
They all fail. Your god has kept none of those promises.
Sorry, which one failed?
We can't test the promises that don't affect matter, such as the promise of an afterlife in heaven or hell, but I'm sure that you can trust that one.
Very good. You can't test God & you can test for God. Then the claim that He's made up or doesn't exist is just that, a claim.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150266
Jan 26, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
Jeez, IANS, you are limited on your perspectives.

A chance expansion of some assumed thingy in the beginning will not create those laws universally unless it was pointed in the right direction.
Whatever your argument, level it at the god;

The chance arrangement of some assumed substance operating under some assumed laws into a god will not happen unless it was pointed in the right direction.

If your argument were valid, then this would perforce be more valid, since your argument assumes the existence of an infinitely more complex entity to explain a simpler one that it says is too complex to exist undesigned.

A god like yours is the least likely thing imaginable to exist uncreated. Literally. If you disagree, name something that would possibly be less likely to exist uncreated than an infinite, immortal, sentient, volitional, omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly moral being.

And if one existed, why aren't there many? What else is sui generis? Not even the universe itself in a many-worlds or multiverse scenario.
Imhotep

Silver Springs, FL

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#150267
Jan 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
“Due to budget cuts, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse -- previously War, Famine, Pestilence and Death -- are now Sniffles, Hunger Pangs, Flatulence, and Ennui.”– Chris Conway
LQTM!

I find these 'faithful' people amusing because they’re in psychological denial, a masterpiece of banal self-delusion, completely untethered from reality.

At the core of fundamentalist Christian predatory behavior is the insatiable desire to make all humanity believe that Christian whims, doctrines, and fantasies represent some sort of absolute reality.

In this warped system, simple unbelief is defined as sin (John 16:9) and because exposing "sin" glorifies God, Christian operatives can collect rewards in heaven for doing this "noble" work.

This work is often referred to as a conviction from the Holy Spirit, when an unbeliever is made aware of the terrible sin they're committing against God by not listening to Christian nonsense and gibberish.

Fanatical Christian operatives can be found virtually everywhere, in every form of media, and they're always cruising the world looking for "unsaved" prey that they can witness their "love" to.

That "love" often means getting right in the face of an unbeliever and jamming their theological delusions down their throat.

They call it love because they're doing you a favor by telling you how to avoid being sent to hell by "God" for the sin of not thinking exactly the way they do.

You can be saved from this dire fate by believing everything they tell you concerning their version of God.

This nonsense has gone on for almost 2,000 years and thrives because people are often too indoctrinated from childhood or too intimidated by the fear of hell to question the wisdom of taking spiritual instructions from a gang of psychotic God-soaked thugs.

Time to accept reality in my opinion.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#150268
Jan 26, 2013
 
He told the children at his feet that some of them would not die before the end came. Are you so retarded that you think there are some 2000 year old people walking around waiting for Jesus? You of course have no answer for this.

Lol! Hey what's the largest CHRISTIAN church again?:))
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Which He does.
<quoted text>
Figure of speech, bro.
<quoted text>
Intellectual dishonesty.
It's "peace of God which passeth all understanding", which comes from trusting God.
<quoted text>
"The fruit of the Spirit" is the moral character developed by the power of the Spirit, which we have.
<quoted text>
His audience is not dead, there's about 2.2 billion if us right now.
<quoted text>
Sorry, which one failed?
<quoted text>
Very good. You can't test God & you can test for God. Then the claim that He's made up or doesn't exist is just that, a claim.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150269
Jan 26, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I got to thinking about this a bit more. Of *course* absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Agreed.

What is true is that the absence of proof is not proof of absence. Consider the following:

You claimed to have called a coworker from your cell phone on your lunch break to tell the office that you would be late, but there was no record of that call in the telephone company records, and there was no telephone message recorded. The absence of expected evidence suggests that that call was never made.

Then, you said that you drove through a muddy field to get back to work, but that same day, with the ground still soft, no tire prints could be found in the field. Furthermore, the car you said you used, though dirty, had no mud on it. That absence of evidence is evidence that you're probably fibbing again.

Finally, you claimed that you did return to work, but nobody remembers seeing you after lunch, and your time card wasn't punched. It's not proof that you weren't there, but it is evidence of your absence. You're probably not getting paid for the afternoon based on the absence of evidence.

Every day that Jesus failed to return is evidence that he isn't coming back.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150270
Jan 26, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Cheeses saves!
Cheeses Crust, how grated thou art!

Since: Sep 08

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#150271
Jan 26, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> WTF are you to decide the parameters of imaginary, imaginary has no such limits imposed by you. After all,
your god would never survive such imposed limitations.
You are the one that sees invisible pink unicorns, flying spaghetti, and old men sitting on thrones as deities. Separate and distinct entities from yourself.

You could just be a facet of this entity, therefore you can't "see" it.

However, if you are a boil or pimple on its butt, you may wind up feeling its presence.

Since: Sep 08

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#150272
Jan 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever your argument, level it at the god;
The chance arrangement of some assumed substance operating under some assumed laws into a god will not happen unless it was pointed in the right direction.
If your argument were valid, then this would perforce be more valid, since your argument assumes the existence of an infinitely more complex entity to explain a simpler one that it says is too complex to exist undesigned.
A god like yours is the least likely thing imaginable to exist uncreated. Literally. If you disagree, name something that would possibly be less likely to exist uncreated than an infinite, immortal, sentient, volitional, omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly moral being.
And if one existed, why aren't there many? What else is sui generis? Not even the universe itself in a many-worlds or multiverse scenario.
IANS, you and a bacteria in a Petri dish have the same lack of abstract thinking ability.

Don't worry about how what brought you into existence came into existence. Especially if it can dump you down the sink. Establish a rapport with it, then it may tell you what it knows.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150273
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
Of all the alleged virtues, faith is the most overrated.
“Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt.”- Mike Huben

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#150274
Jan 26, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
There are no means of analyzing God in the same sense. Your eyes do not see Him. Your ears do not hear Him. Your senses seem to betray you. All known forms of detection fail. So does that mean God doesn't exist or you simply lacks the means to detect Him?
“The [undetectable] and the non-existent look very much alike”-Delos B. McKown

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